Christian Viewpoint On The Gun Debate

[FireDragon76]

Exactly what we've been trying to tell people about what the WOKE are trying to do. Make laws out to be racist, inequitable, or whatever other terms they come up with, and then laws simply don't apply. Mass theft at retail outlets, murders for the fun of it, drug use and going to the toilet in the middle of the street, and whatever else one desires is freely done. So, why have laws at all?

That's not an argument against regulating guns.

 

[Postvieww]

Honestly, I think that's a misunderstanding of the 2nd Amendment. It was meant to be a community right, not an individual one. The Constitution was designed to limit the size of the military and defense of the nation was primarily meant to be handled by the militias of the several states.

The Supreme Court disagrees with you!

 

[Arcangl86]

The Supreme Court disagrees with you!

Good for them. But for most of the history of this country they agreed with me. And SCOTUS has been wrong in the past.

 

[Postvieww]

Yes, many people die in cars, but we realized that they provided too much utility to get rid of. Instead they are heavily regulated.

Yes, they are weapons. Weapons are designed for only one thing, to kill. When somebody dies from a car it's because of an accident or somebody using it a way they aren't supposed to. Guns on the other hand are not only designed for but optimized for taking lives. There is no ultility otherwise, yet the regulations on them are fairly light.

Yes they can kill BUT: 1. They can help provide food.
2. They can provide self defense from a bad guy with a gun.
3. They can be just a hobby (target shooting)

There have been mass murders with knives and cars.

When guns are used in mass murders they also are used in "way they aren't supposed to".

It's a lot harder to kill dozens of people in seconds with an ax. Not to mention that axes have other uses.

In a large group of unarmed people how many could a crazed lunatic kill with a machete before being stopped with a gun by police?

Gun grabbing arguments have no merit!

With this logic nothing should be criminalized because no law is going to 100% stop everything. But we also know this isn't necessarily true from the fact that many countries that heavily regulate guns have vanishingly rare gun crime.

Gun crime is already illegal. Gun grabbing activists want my guns as well, so I cannot defend myself.

Yes, but guns make it far easier.

Yes and guns in only the wrong hands make it far easier for what happened in Nazi Germany to be repeated.

Honestly, I think that's a misunderstanding of the 2nd Amendment. It was meant to be a community right, not an individual one. The Constitution was designed to limit the size of the military and defense of the nation was primarily meant to be handled by the militias of the several states.

Justice Antonin Scalia wrote the Heller majority opinion. “The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home,” Scalia said.Jun 28, 2023

 

[Postvieww]

Good for them. But for most of the history of this country they agreed with me. And SCOTUS has been wrong in the past.

I would tend to believe you are wrong before I would the Supreme Court is wrong on this issue!

 

[Postvieww]

View attachment 338677

More facts, maybe eventually they will sink in!

 

[Postvieww]

The right to be shot at while in school? Or the shops? The right to bankrupting health care costs? Wow. Americans sure are jealous of their rights. We are happy to give up those "rights". We seem to manage OK somehow.

Australia: More Guns Now Than Before Port Arthur - The Australia Institute

New research from the Australia Institute finds that there are more guns in Australia now than there were before the Port Arthur massacre and introduction of strict gun controls.

australiainstitute.org.au

From the above article. Everyone in your country does not agree with you.

"New research from the Australia Institute finds that there are more guns in Australia now than there were before the Port Arthur massacre and introduction of strict gun controls.

The Australia Institute report, commissioned by Gun Control Australia, comes off the back of research which finds the gun lobby in Australia is as large, per capita, as the NRA in the US. The new report also finds that the number of guns per gun-owner in Australia has increased dramatically, despite a drop in the number of people engaged in sport shooting overall.

Key findings

• The number of guns per gun-owner in Australia has increased dramatically, from 2.1 guns per gun owner in 1997 to 3.9 guns per owner at present
• Alarmingly, the number of firearms reported in Australia in 2017 (3.6 million) is now higher than pre-Port Arthur levels, prior to the 1996 National Firearms Agreement (3.2 million firearms)
• The increase in gun numbers is despite a drop in number of people engaged in sport shooting overall
• Using a rough measure of a gun selling for $1,000, the gun lobby has sold an additional $1.45 billion worth of guns because of the cultural change since 1997 of keeping more guns

“Australians would be surprised to learn that Australia has more guns now than even before the Port Arthur massacre and the introduction of strict gun controls,” said Bill Browne, researcher at the Australia Institute. "

 

[Postvieww]

Jesus said:

Luke 22:36
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Speaking from a biblical perspective this is my viewpoint on the gun debate.

It is not a simple question. There are Christian pacifists who will always "turn the other cheek". And there are also Christians who rightly defend the vulnerable. We each must discern for ourselves where we wish to be in that spectrum. As a society we must safeguard the vulnerable. One must pass a test and be license to drive an automobile. That does not make it impossible for a non-licensed driver to take a car and mow people down. But it does place a reasonable restriction on who can legally drive. Same should be done for guns.

 

[Divide]

Driving an automobile is a privilege not a right.

They keep saying that but from what I understand Driving Licenses came about for commercial drivers who were working. But they would let anyone get a license and so many people got them (I guess for bragging rights) that it eventually sort of morphed into an expectation to have a drivers license.

So they came up with the cliche', driving is a privlege not a right, to give it officiality.
But is it true? Maybe not, because we certainly have a right to free travel. If I tried to ride a horse to the grocery store, I'd get more attention from law enforcement than I wanted. So the thing to do is to use the commonly accepted mode of transportation in today's society. Driving a car.

I'm sure that they would vehemently deny these words but them being willing to lie does not change the truth.

I never have gone down and got a CCW permit. Why should I? The Constitution (and GOD) already gave me the right to pack a pistol (or whatever) so to accept a permit from them which supposedly allows me to carry would be to aquiesce to the implyed authority that they supposedly hold. If they can legally issue me a permit, then they can revoke the permit. And that is something they can not do.

I've carried for over 38 years now, concealed. How am I getting away with that? (LOL).
Easy by not threatening people, robbing people, pistol whipping people or being a punk in general. So my record (or lack of one!) reflects that I am not a violent person or criminally minded. If I was a punk, I'd have gotten into trouble way before now. Lol!

 

[Divide]

Nehimiah 4:16-18
16 And it came to pass from that time forth, that the half of my servants wrought in the work, and the other half of them held both the spears, the shields, and the bows, and the habergeons; and the rulers were behind all the house of Judah.

17 They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon.

18 For the builders, every one had his sword girded by his side, and so builded. And he that sounded the trumpet was by me..../KJV

Us Christians have our work also. So we're not building a wall but the Lord does not change. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. This passage is obviously telling us that we may have to fight so even work while armed. Spread a message of ultimate Love of God while armed to the teeth. After all these are the last days.

 

[Divide]

WHen I was doing the furnace & A/C thing I remember going out to work on a man's furnace and he needed a part that I did not have in stock so I had to go and pick it up. The man said when you come back just come on in and do your work, I'll be here. Ok.

So I went and got his needed part and went back but what I did not know is that while I was there the first time, his wife was gone to the store. I had no clue! When I got back I just walked in like he told me to...and his wife was in there and not expecting me. I sort of rushed in because I was wanting to hurry and get done. I wasn't expecting her. She wasn't expecting me. So when I came rushing in the door wow, she let out a scream so loud that they could hear it down the block! I instantly realized what was going on and I didn't know who else might have also come home that may just pop around a corner and shoot me. So I just froze and kindof raised my hands and looked at the floor, and stood absolutely still. Wow!

The Husband came out pretty quick at the scream to see what was up and burst out laughing at what was happening. It was his fault he didn't clue in his wife that a serviceman would be coming back. And he calmed her down and apologized to both of us, me too! It is funny now but it wasnt then...

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Driving an automobile is a privilege not a right.

What is the distinction between a right and a privilege and how is it relevant in this topic?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

You brought up driving as the same or comparable to a Constitutional right. as @Divide pointed out, one could say the right to freedom might cover driving and I might agree, but I do not see a specific amendment calling that out as the 2nd does.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Key words: "well regulated"

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Key words: "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall no be infringed"

in the context of a well regulated militia.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Guess we will have to go with SCOTUS interpretation.

Who have recently voted pro-gun

 

[Divide]

This was a great idea for a thread. Tell me if I have this figured out right...

Ephesians 6:10-18
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;...KJV


So a christian pacifist would wholeheartedly study the Armor of God, right? Everybody has heard about it is a spiritual war. If we are going to accomplish anything for the Kingdom of God it will be on our knees. I agree with that too! Ephesians 6 goes through all pieces of the Armor and explains them.

The helmet of Salvation. That's us being Born Again. We're in the Service. Of God.
Loins girt about with truth (do not lie) and have on the Breastplate of Righteousness (Always do the right thing, do good deeds, help people)
....feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;. (Study the Word of God, read daily) That puts boot on your feet.
Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. (Faith is your body armor!) Can they penetrate your Faith?!)
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: (we're born again now so now what? It's right here, read you bible daily or you have no sword with the other accoutrements.)

Don't go our unarmed. The Armor of God is a complete set and if you dont put it on then you wont have that protection as if you did.

Does anyone like prepping? Being prepared in case of an emergency is always a good idea. We can't forget the last piece of Armor which they sometimes leave off for some reason. It is Prayer .
Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit,...(this is our Radio so we can call in an air strike! Fire from Heaven!)

The Armor of God is very much like a Soldiers outfit. Even a Helmet and a Radio! When us born again christians asked Jesus into our heart and became born again children of God, we went into the service. We gave our life to God so that He may rule in our hearts and the Lord of our Salvation and future. So you cant not suit up in the service uniform. We cant just wear our favorite pieces of the Armor and neglect one or more of the others.

I can hear Jesus now on that day, You mean you didnt read the Manual hardly at all?!!
Whoa. That would be embarassing!

The Armor spells out our mission in a way. Dont sin, do good deeds, spread the message of the Lord and the Kingdom of the Lord and to continually press in and try to be a better soldier for him. It isnt a game, it's real spiritual war and those are the instructions to us. So when one soldier was very diligent and practiced procedure and another soldier who signed up but didn't read the field manual and never used his radio when he had a problem (not praying enough) is two of the biggest pieces of service equipment that has been issued to us. I was thinking military and stuff and that when I realized about the Master, the Servants and the Talents. They goof off got booted it says. The other soldiers were promoted who had been more diligent.

That's the two biggest things which too many christians do not do. Really read their bible enough, and praying enough. Indeed, pray without ceasing! Who does that?

So if the Pacifists stand on a spiritual thing where they forgot they were in the service and got made into an unprofitable servant.

Do you know what the Pacifists are missing? It's real easy. That we cant just refuse to participate in the Material world. Yes the war is spiritual but we are still boots on the ground behind enemy lines here on earth. We have to navigate this hostile world to us and try to rescue anyone we can. Now we can't beat the evil spiritual enemy and be overcomers to do our job but we will not be able to do it. It almost seems like a suicide mission at this point. But the Lord God wants us to take on His image (character) so that He can reach people through us and God can then flow through us like a river of water of life and there will be increases because God is wanting to bring the spiritual and the material together. To flow through us and help us on our rescue mission. So to be a good efficient soldier one must press in by putting on the Armor of God. Read more, pray more. All day long. Under your breath. Or risk becoming an unprofitable servant.

The good thing is as we apply ourselves more and press in, God says, Oh, he's seeking me, and then all these things shall be added unto thee. So fear not to stand up to evil. Should Christians be Armed??!! Well from my perspective, Christians may be the niche people of the world that need to be armed the most! Persecution will come to us as the enemy of the world. That has been promised. But look on the bright side, the single most repeated phrase in the scripture which is repeated more than any other is: Do not fear. dont be afraid, yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil. That is very very important. You do not have to be in fear. If you are in fear of a gunfight you or your family may die. But if you have been praying enough and reading His Word enough you will not fear because you will have the Spirit of Almighty God within you. That is very refreshing feeling let me tell you. But it's not ok here's what I'll do then cuz I dont have to fear...that guy will die. It should have been, Ok Lord, now what?! so what it amounts to is, if you are not at peace then it is because you dont Gods word enough or pray enough. If there is anxiety, that is a big red flag that Prayer to the Lord is needed. I can perceive the Lord's presence with me just by seeing what state I am in. If I am anxious about something I know it's time to pray. If I am at peace in my spirit then I know I know that He is with me. I think the Lord said, don't be timid. I have not given you a spirit of fear but one of courage and sound mind, remember?

However, there is not always time to pray when someone is attacking you. Have you ever been attacked? Ever attacked by a dog? I have. It happens fast. Way too fast to pray. That's why Christians have a duty to be armed in my mind. This is a dongerous planet! And getting worse every day almost. There really are some people who are so evil that they think nothing of chaos, they create it. So we might as well figure we gonna have to fight at some point or else good people would die or worse. In this way I feel like I have been blessed in that way and learned the right way from childhood to handle weapons and guns knowing how to shoot fairly well, loll. Plus carrying a pistol that you can shoot well instills more confidence that one could dominate a situation if need be so it actually gives you more time to think because you cant pack a gun and not be one step ahead in alertness. You have to see the trouble before they know you do. So having a good pistol (and rifle) is an American duty and what good does being on duty (all keyed up to kill grr!) good for anyway sounds bad! No. Think about it.. This is why when the dog attacked me I did not have to shoot the dog. A warining shot in front of him convinced him to break off the attack. The one time there was a attempted home invasion of my house. I got to the draw and had him covered at about 5 feet. And that guy started coming at me so one shot into the grass to see if that would turn him like it did the dog so I did it. I didnt want to shoot anyone, I wanted him to go away and not try to come in my house! The warning shot saved his life because he withdrew from the sound of my pistol barking. Who wants to shoot somebody? Not any decent folk I know. I call that one like it was win twice. Not only did I stop the home invasion before he got in but I didn't let the hollywood mentality tempt me into killing someone unless I really had to.
When I shot in front of the dog and he ran home. The next day the dog was a wondefully new bright heavy chain so he couldnt chase people! I dont have to let that dog get his mouth on me. And I praise God that I didn't have to shoot him, so the dog lived and the neighbrohood was a litlle nicer, lol. I did a community service. They dog owners heard the shot and their favorite dog was not dead! I feel so good about that.

having a pistol with me always is the only way to assure me and my family and neighbors are all safe If I didn't have the gun I would have been bit by the dog. If I hadnt answered my door wearing a pistol I would have a home invasion and people in the house up to no good. Go Hide Homey, a bad guy is here!!!! I fistfightBAM
Pacifists will die. It's dumb not to be armed everyday everywhere on this planet. For when there's no time to pray.

Wearing a pistol still leave w whole lot of room for faith on this planet
Pistols are to fight your way back to the rifle that you should not have laid down in the first place (Jeff Cooper)

 

[Divide]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Key words: "well regulated"

That speaks of personal responsibility to the free citizens in America, for all states. Everyone between a certain age spead (I forget) was to have weapons and shoot enough that you are already a good shot just in case they are called into service of the country, but it speaks to private citizens.

I know they tried to twist it mean to the Army or National Guard or whatever but that's a lie. Every man as a duty as a man in the US to have weapons and be proficient, or, well regulated as they used to say. Meaning they know how to opeate pistols and rifles, gunsights and all that related stuff. First for Family, second for Country.

Better buy a gun and go get yourself well regulated!

 

[Divide]

This country is armed to the teeth right now. Christians shouldn't be the last ones to arm up.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Australia: More Guns Now Than Before Port Arthur - The Australia Institute

New research from the Australia Institute finds that there are more guns in Australia now than there were before the Port Arthur massacre and introduction of strict gun controls.

australiainstitute.org.au

From the above article. Everyone in your country does not agree with you.

"New research from the Australia Institute finds that there are more guns in Australia now than there were before the Port Arthur massacre and introduction of strict gun controls.

The Australia Institute report, commissioned by Gun Control Australia, comes off the back of research which finds the gun lobby in Australia is as large, per capita, as the NRA in the US. The new report also finds that the number of guns per gun-owner in Australia has increased dramatically, despite a drop in the number of people engaged in sport shooting overall.

Key findings

• The number of guns per gun-owner in Australia has increased dramatically, from 2.1 guns per gun owner in 1997 to 3.9 guns per owner at present
• Alarmingly, the number of firearms reported in Australia in 2017 (3.6 million) is now higher than pre-Port Arthur levels, prior to the 1996 National Firearms Agreement (3.2 million firearms)
• The increase in gun numbers is despite a drop in number of people engaged in sport shooting overall
• Using a rough measure of a gun selling for $1,000, the gun lobby has sold an additional $1.45 billion worth of guns because of the cultural change since 1997 of keeping more guns

“Australians would be surprised to learn that Australia has more guns now than even before the Port Arthur massacre and the introduction of strict gun controls,” said Bill Browne, researcher at the Australia Institute. "

What we do not have is military style weapons with 50 round magazines. We do have screening for people applying for a shooter's licence. You can't buy an AR15 here, not legally anyway. There is no right to carry, concealed or otherwise. There are few people who can legally own a handgun. These include police and trained security people.

Guns have to be stored in an approved safe and the ammuntion stored separately. I'm not alarmed by the rise in gun ownership. Illegal guns are another matter. The good thing is that they are mostly used by criminals against other criminals. And the perps are usually caught, sooner or later.