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Hamas-Israel News Thread

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Landon Caeli

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International community must simply force both sides to stop violence and other illegal activity. Backing just one side of the conflict and ignoring the suffering of the other is unjust. Sadly, many people or countries are picking clear side for various emotional reasons. Which does not help to solve it at all.
So according to your plan (of stopping violence), how do you explain the path forward for removing and executing Hamas terrorists?

What's the right way?
 
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wing2000

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If Hamas is to be removed from Gaza, the tunnel network has to be destroyed, otherwise Israel (and Egypt) will always have the threat of Hamas. Israel is employing ariel bombing, artillery shells and eventually ground troops.

Any other ideas?

The tunnel system is vast, much larger than I perviously understood:

"Metro"

Tunnels have been a part of life in Gaza for years, but they sharply multiplied after 2007, when Hamas took control of the enclave and Israel tightened its blockade. Palestinians responded by building hundreds of tunnels to smuggle in food, goods, people and weapons.

The tunnels cost Hamas about $3 million each, according to the Israeli military. Some are made with prefabricated concrete and iron, and have medical rooms for providing aid to wounded fighters. Others have spaces 130 feet below ground where people can hide for months.

In Israel, people often refer to the tunnel system as “lower Gaza” or the “metro.”

...

As Hamas expanded the underground system, it concealed the entrances to the tunnels in houses and other small structures on Egypt’s side of the border, said Joel Roskin, a geology professor at Bar-Ilan University in Israel who studied tunnels during his time in the Israeli military. Those tunnels allowed goods to be smuggled in from Egypt.

The tunnel system stretches all the way to the Israeli border in the north.

A decade ago, Egypt undertook an effort to destroy the tunnels along its border, dumping sewage into some and leveling houses that concealed entrances, Mr. Roskin said.

Israel has limited visibility into tunnel activity on the Egyptian side of the border, he added. Many of the networks end in Northern Sinai, but the Egyptian government has rarely allowed Israeli researchers or government officials to visit the area, so it is not clear how many cross-border tunnels remain.


 
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Chesterton

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The British administrative headquarters for Mandatory Palestine, housed in the southern wing[1] of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, were bombed in a terrorist attack[2][3]...
Amazing that Wiki calls this a terrorist attack, when 1) it was a military target and 2) the military men in the hotel were warned of the bombing beforehand.
...on July 22, 1946, by the militant right-wing[4] Zionist underground organization..."
Also amazing and humorous - Nazi Germany was right-wing, and best remembered for hating Jews. The alt.right is right-wing, and best known for hating Jews. Yet Jews can also be right-wing. I guess right-wing just translates to "the bad guys". Clown World.
 
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Chesterton

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I'm leaving a fair portion out but I'm not your history teacher...those are the broad strokes up to 1948.
One important thing possibly left out - I've learned that all land acquired by Jews was purchased from Arabs - legitimate real estate transactions. Prior to 1947 and the war, no Arab land was taken by violence. And the land which was sold was usually the land nobody wanted, the swamps and desert land, which the Jews nonetheless caused to flourish. If this is wrong, someone please give me evidence. I like to know when I'm wrong.
 
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ralliann

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So by not wanting to deny water and medical and power and food one is encouraging Hamas?

You think that after being denied water for the population some 18 days or whatever, that people there would be using water pipes for bombs now? Why stop the aid convoys from getting in?
They could have had their own water supply. It is just one excuse after another. They want to Destroy an entire nation. You are helping to ensure that the people they use, will continue to be used.
 
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Chesterton

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Conservatism is one of the ways of being "right wing". Just like progressivism is left wing.
These large crowds in cities around the world chanting "From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free!"? And the queers for Palestine? You'd label them conservative?
 
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durangodawood

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These large crowds in cities around the world chanting "From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free!"?
I dont know who they are. But that slogan alone doesnt cut along typical conservative/progressive lines.
And the queers for Palestine? You'd label them conservative?
That sounds progressive.

Whats the point youre trying to make with this?
 
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Landon Caeli

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One important thing possibly left out - I've learned that all land acquired by Jews was purchased from Arabs - legitimate real estate transactions. Prior to 1947 and the war, no Arab land was taken by violence. And the land which was sold was usually the land nobody wanted, the swamps and desert land, which the Jews nonetheless caused to flourish. If this is wrong, someone please give me evidence. I like to know when I'm wrong.
No, that's right. There was a small 10 year period where the Ottomans refused to sell land to the Jews, toward the end of their rein. But since the Ottomans wanted money, they sold it to Greek nationals, who then in turn, sold it to Jews turning a profit.

...But it makes no difference, the land was indeed purchased fair and square. It was all done legally... And the Arab nomads who wandered the surrounding lands as shepherds, were just spiteful Islamists who craved domination.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Amazing that Wiki calls this a terrorist attack, when 1) it was a military target

I realize this will be a tough sell, since you probably think hospitals and schools are military targets, but it was a hotel, and many of the dead were hotel employees.
 
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Landon Caeli

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Not ironic, is that Jewish students have been having to hide in school libraries, and attics, while pro-Palestinian rallies take place on campus. Now pro-Palestinian students are threatening to kill Jewish students online.

...Nobody has threatened Palestinian students, however. We see where the evil is..!
 
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Chesterton

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I realize this will be a tough sell, since you probably think hospitals and schools are military targets,
Not just me, but international law thinks hospitals and schools are military targets when they are military targets.
but it was a hotel, and many of the dead were hotel employees.
Which is why the military command was warned to evacuate the building beforehand. Jews are actually pretty nice people once you get to know them.
 
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rjs330

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@Ana the Ist, @Landon Caeli , @Hank77, @civilwarbuff

Let us simplify our conversation:
Are you able to simply admit that both sides, Palestinians and Jews, did and do wrong things to each other? That both lives matter and that the life of one ethnicity is not more worth than of the other one?

If you cannot do that, your siding with one specific side is not factual, but fanatical, religious. Ask yourself how you got to behave and think in a way that is sensitive to suffering of only one side and dismissive of the other.

Again that's what happens when one side hates the other so bad that they want them wiped out and removed entirely to not exist. And they prove that hatred by constantly attacking the other side.

You seem to continually miss that point. If Israel didn't have the iron some there would be countless more civilian deaths. Because the Palestinians don't care about the civilians. In fact the more civilians dead the better. One side doesn't care about life. The other side does.

When you have that eventually the the wicked will go too far. And the other side will rise up and say enough is enough and war will begin. When war begins a great toll of lives will be taken. But it's what the wicked side asked for. In this case the Palestinians asked for it to happen by their love of death. And like the avenging angel Israel is avenging their dead. And when the evil love death so much that they put their own people in harms way to create more death they are the guilty.

And when war comes and they deliberately place their own people in harms way they are the ones committing the act upon their own.

The acts committed are not equal. Israel is trying to protect their people from destruction. The Palestinians are trying to line their people up for destruction. Who's the greater to blame?

When you ask for war to be visited upon you then you must accept the consequences of that war. And when you deliberately ask for your civilians to die and the enemy obliges them you have no one to blame but yourself.

The wrong things done as you say are not equal. The morality is not equal. One side wishes to avoid civilian death but have no choice do to the actions of the other.

The other side thirsts for civilian death. Revels in it. And the civilians voted for it.

And while it is may be equal in outcome, it is is not real in morality.
 
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rjs330

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Well, both people are there for a century, so moving them is probably not viable.

Two state solution with borders from 1948 plan (i.e. illegal Jewish settlements to be removed) and the UN blue helmets there to oversee both sides? I do not know. But the current situation does not work, if two sides hate each other, one cannot control the other.

Are your forgetting that Israel has tried that? But Everytime it's rejected? Everytime it has been the Arab world who were the aggressors and the attackers. It has been them who have rejected it and called for jihad against the Jews.

Israel and the world have tried to create a two state solution, but every time the Arabs reject it. Why? Because of their hated. And right now they are reaping what has been sown.
 
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Always in His Presence

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I realize this will be a tough sell, since you probably think hospitals and schools are military targets, but it was a hotel, and many of the dead were hotel employees.
Hamas uses women and children as human shields and sacrifices by placing them under and in Hospitals and schools, then decries the loss of life that they did not allow leave after being warned to leave.
 
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JosephZ

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No they are not innocent. They have blood on their hands because they voted for Hamas and gave them, food, shelter and support. That makes you guilty.
Less than 15% of Palestinians alive today voted Hamas into power. Palestinians are being exploited by Hamas and are often victims of their crimes. Hamas living in their midst doesn't make the Palestinians guilty of the actions of Hamas.
 
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rjs330

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The crime against humanity is perpetrated by Hamas. Israel is giving civilians every opportunity to escape to safety in the south of Gaza. It is Hamas that are setting up road blocks and stopping civilians getting away. Hamas is the criminal because they are deliberately and knowingly using innocent men, women and children as human shields and they won't care how many are killed to suit their purpose. The news media is being manipulated to believe that Israel is the criminal here.

You are being very generous to the news media. I think it's pretty obvious the news media has a streak of anti-Semetism. The media knows good and well that the Palestinians will lie through their teeth about everything. Yet they take anything they say at face value.
 
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