WHY DO MANY PEOPLE STILL BELIEVE THAT THE OLD COVENANT IS STILL IN EFFECT ?

[ozso]

I have seen that many people still believe that the OLD COVENANT is still in EFFECT !

I wouldn't say many. More like a fringe minority.

 

[Soyeong]

The New covenant is the same covenant God made with Abraham and to His seed (Christ)..

God's covenants are all in accordance with each other. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, which is in accordance with him being sent as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26), which is the Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), which he taught to Gentiles in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5), and which is what he taught to his children and those of His household, so the Mosaic Covenant is not doing something different, especially because the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33).

 

[Soyeong]

He never said anything like that. I know you like to think He did, but He didn't. Besides, Moses came on the scene about 500 years after Abraham.

It's a new covenant, not a renewed one. I'm a gentile anyways, so I could care less about some jewish requirements.

I quoted where Jesus said that. There are many verses that describe the Mosaic Law as being instructions for how to walk in God's way, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, 1 Kings 2:1-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, Psalms 119:1-3, and many others, and in Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in God's way. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so do you you think that Gentiles who are under the New Covenant should walk in God's way?

 

[Aaron112]

What say you ?

Whatever the world everywhere, or people anywhere believe or think is true,

we sheep simply know and hear and listen to Jesus' Voice and follow Jesus, and will not listen to another voice nor follow another voice.

 

[ARBITER01]

I quoted where Jesus said that. There are many verses that describe the Mosaic Law as being instructions for how to walk in God's way, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, 1 Kings 2:1-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, Psalms 119:1-3, and many others, and in Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in God's way. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so do you you think that Gentiles who are under the New Covenant should walk in God's way?

Sorry, we are children of Abraham not Moses. I'm not sure who lied to you, but you wrongfully accepted it.

Again, I'm a gentile, I have no need for Jewish regulations.

 

[Aaron112]

Yahweh Elohim entrusted Scripture to the Jews, and Salvation came through the Jews,
so
'they', in line with Scripture and complete Harmony with Yahweh's Plan
are therefore
essential and crucial and integral to the Creator's Plan and Purpose here and now and on earth.

 

[Soyeong]

Sorry, we are children of Abraham not Moses. I'm not sure who lied to you, but you wrongfully accepted it.

I didn't deny that we are children of Abraham or claim that we are children of Moses. No one lied to me, but rather I supported what I said with Scripture.

Again, I'm a gentile, I have no need for Jewish regulations.

Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers how to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example, so Gentiles can look at what he taught and decided whether or not to follow him, but can't follow him while refusing to follow what he taught. Following Jesus is not just for Jews, but for Gentiles too.

 

[eleos1954]

I have seen that many people still believe that the OLD COVENANT is still in EFFECT !

But 2 Cor 3:12 , 13 , 14 and also Isa 6:1-13 and other verses , show the same results that Israel has been set aside .

But what about CIRCUMCISION in Acts 15:1 , that without CIRCUMCISION , you are not able to be saved ?

And in Gal 2:14 we see the apostle Peter trying to COMPEL Gentiles to adopt Jewish customs and RITES , which means that Peter was NOT a believer saved by Grace .

What say you ?

dan p

But what about CIRCUMCISION in Acts 15:1 , that without CIRCUMCISION , you are not able to be saved ?

CIRCUMCISION takes place in the heart.

Romans 2:28-29, “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”

It's not about the physical .... it's about the spiritual.

We all fall from grace at times ... that doesn't mean we aren't saved ... nor does it mean that in Peter's case.

We do not know who has and hasn't been saved ... only God does.

It's not by grace alone.

According to Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” It is important to see here that by God's grace through faith we have been saved. It is not by works.

The apostles were not perfect people and they were learning (just as we are) and at times they struggled with their faith ... that does not mean they have fallen from grace.

When reading further in Galatians ... we find that that Paul outwardly admonished (confronted) Peter of his error in his thinking.

Peter simply stumbled a little bit ... as we all do. We all stumble with faith at times but that does not mean we are not saved.

 

[ARBITER01]

I didn't deny that we are children of Abraham or claim that we are children of Moses. No one lied to me, but rather I supported what I said with Scripture.


Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers how to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example, so Gentiles can look at what he taught and decided whether or not to follow him, but can't follow him while refusing to follow what he taught. Following Jesus is not just for Jews, but for Gentiles too.

Well it's easy for me to know, I just ask The Lord Jesus about such things. He always tells me the truth, and guess what, He says I should not worry about trying to follow the law of Moses, it's dead already. I said thanks Lord.

You see I don't have a relationship with my bible, I actually have one with The Lord Jesus. That makes all the difference when people such as yourself spout a bunch of lies trying to convince and persuade people to follow something wrongfully.

 

[Soyeong]

Well it's easy for me to know, I just ask The Lord Jesus about such things. He always tells me the truth, and guess what, He says I should not worry about trying to follow the law of Moses, it's dead already. I said thanks Lord.

You see I don't have a relationship with my bible, I actually have one with The Lord Jesus. That makes all the difference when people such as yourself spout a bunch of lies trying to convince and persuade people to follow something wrongfully.

In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, so your posts are in opposition what Scripture says is truth. The Psalms express an extremely positive view of the Mosaic Law, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct view of the Mosaic Law, then we will share it as Paul did (Romans 7:22). For example, in Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who delight in the law of the Lord and who meditate on it day and night, so we can't believe in the truth of these words as Scripture while not allowing them to shape our view of the Mosaic Law. If you held the same view of the Mosaic Law that is expressed in the Psalms, then you would be thankful that you have the delight of getting to obey it. The Mosaic Law is God's word and God's word is His instructions for how to have a relationship with God's word made flesh while it is contradictory to follow God's word made flesh while not following God's word.

 

[Guojing]

I have seen that many people still believe that the OLD COVENANT is still in EFFECT !

But 2 Cor 3:12 , 13 , 14 and also Isa 6:1-13 and other verses , show the same results that Israel has been set aside .

But what about CIRCUMCISION in Acts 15:1 , that without CIRCUMCISION , you are not able to be saved ?

And in Gal 2:14 we see the apostle Peter trying to COMPEL Gentiles to adopt Jewish customs and RITES , which means that Peter was NOT a believer saved by Grace .

What say you ?

dan p

I think the natural follow up to this question of yours will be "WHY DO MANY PEOPLE STILL BELIEVE THAT THE NEW COVENANT has begun for them"?

 

[ARBITER01]

In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, so your posts are in opposition what Scripture says is truth. The Psalms express an extremely positive view of the Mosaic Law, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct view of the Mosaic Law, then we will share it as Paul did (Romans 7:22). For example, in Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who delight in the law of the Lord and who meditate on it day and night, so we can't believe in the truth of these words as Scripture while not allowing them to shape our view of the Mosaic Law. If you held the same view of the Mosaic Law that is expressed in the Psalms, then you would be thankful that you have the delight of getting to obey it. The Mosaic Law is God's word and God's word is His instructions for how to have a relationship with God's word made flesh while it is contradictory to follow God's word made flesh while not following God's word.

Sorry but this is something that you want, not Jesus. I'm not concerned about your desires, just His. Good day.

 

[Dan Perez]

I think the natural follow up to this question of yours will be "WHY DO MANY PEOPLE STILL BELIEVE THAT THE NEW COVENANT has begun for them"?

You and I know and believe what Luke wrote in Acts 18 , that PEOPLE , means Israel and Judah , that they are not HEARING , and not UNDERSTANDING .

And that there HEART was MADE FAT and there ears they have heard with difficulty and have closed there EYES and might see , and might hear with there Ears and might understand and that Christ might HEAL them .

And because Jews would not HEAR , salvation was SENT to the GENTILES , Acts 28:28 .

dan p

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I have seen that many people still believe that the OLD COVENANT is still in EFFECT !

But 2 Cor 3:12 , 13 , 14 and also Isa 6:1-13 and other verses , show the same results that Israel has been set aside .

But what about CIRCUMCISION in Acts 15:1 , that without CIRCUMCISION , you are not able to be saved ?

And in Gal 2:14 we see the apostle Peter trying to COMPEL Gentiles to adopt Jewish customs and RITES , which means that Peter was NOT a believer saved by Grace .

What say you ?

dan p

As a gentile believer, whole chunks of the NT written to the Jews have little to do with me. I rest in the words of Christ. Happy!

 

[bbbbbbb]

As a gentile believer, whole chunks of the NT written to the Jews have little to do with me. I rest in the words of Christ. Happy!

Do you also reject the OT in toto, as well.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Do you also reject the OT in toto, as well.

No, not at all. Just the requirements and elements of the Jewish religion.
I like pork chops and ham!

 

[bbbbbbb]

No, not at all. Just the requirements and elements of the Jewish religion.
I like pork chops and ham!

What portions of the Old Testament do you find to be necessary and why?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

What portions of the Old Testament do you find to be necessary and why?

From the letter to the gentiles:


Acts 15:19-29 KJV
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Of course, the NT lists other concerns... but as far as the OT ritual law... apparently, we do not have to worry.

 

[bbbbbbb]

From the letter to the gentiles:


Acts 15:19-29 KJV
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Of course, the NT lists other concerns... but as far as the OT ritual law... apparently, we do not have to worry.

What do you do with the Psalms, given the fact that twice Paul states that Christians sang Psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

What do you do with the Psalms, given the fact that twice Paul states that Christians sang Psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs?

Love them!