Do you trust God or Man when it comes to the creation?

[dwb001]

All you need to do is invent a light source not mentioned in Genesis. (I;'m sure it was just an oversight.)

Why do I need to do that?

What's yours? The one that doesn't involve a sun.

Correct. Morning... first light after the night.

No, you're there as well. You can tell his from yours because his make sense. <Laugh>

But he has not yet proven anything. With the Bible or science.

 

[The Barbarian]

Nope, just try and make sense some of the time.

If there isn't a sun, how long is a "day"?

My lot believes you have it backward. The "days" of Genesis were of indeterminate length, because there was no sun to measure them by, The reference was to symbolic periods of time to show the sequence of Creation.

But we also KNOW that the words "take, eat this is My Body" came from the mouth of God Himself. No argument involved. The Pharisees and such said, "that doesn't make sense", and left Him. The Apostles didn't understand, but stayed with Him anyway.

Most still say "that makes no sense", and then act as though He didn't say it, or didn't really mean it. The rest of us still say, "Lord, we take You at Your Word, even if we don't entirely understand it." andtreat the bread and wine as His Body and Blood, WHICH IS WHAT HE SAID WHETHER YOUR DOCTRINE SAYS HE MEANT IT OR NOT.

Is believing how long a "day" was in Genesis of eternal importance? No. If you go it wrong, then we got it wrong. My bad. The point was, "in the beginning, GOD CREATED everythng. WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE THERE.

But if we reject the Words of our Lord Christ Himself? Not so light a matter, is it? God Himself says it, and we say "No"? Better y'all than me, matey. If He says the bread is His Body, and the wine is His Blood, then it is, end discussion.

So I'm supposed to believe a symbolic teaching story that distills the Creation of the Universe into two pages of narrative,but dismiss the Word of God Himself. I say you're 180 degrees out of phase there, throwing away the food and gnawing on the box.


But like the Pharisees, you say "Oh, but He can't have really mean that!

So tell me, if you can casually dismiss the words of God Himself like that, why do you accept anything in Scripture as literally true at all?

Today's winner.

 

[Jipsah]

Here's a bit of a digression> How many Christians are there who've never read the New Testament at all? They've set out to read the Bible, opened it to page 1, and somewhere before Deuteronomy have laid it down and never picked it up again? Who've never known anything of the New Testament other than John 3:16, the Christmas story, and various scary references to Revelation. Who may harbor the belief that everything they need to know is in the Old Testament because, hey, it's all The Bible, right?

I suspect that this is a lot more common then we might think. Reading is less common now than it was in previous generations, and systematic Bible reading and discussion seems to be becoming increasingly rare. I may sound prejudiced here (probably because i am) , but the problem seems to be, in general, less common amongst Korean Christians, and I think that's probably because they're still likely to read more than the general population, and they've always valued study in general and Bible reading in particular. But having said that, the younger kids in Korean churches are less likely to have read much of the Bible, although they do tend to start where they ought, with the New Testament.

Why do I bring this up? Largely because of OT centric topics such as this. Why are Christians even straining at gnats like this?

Pax vobiscum, y'all.

 

[Jipsah]

Why do I need to do that?

Because otherwise there ain't one. So you invent one. A basketball, wasn't it?

Correct. Morning... first light after the night.

But he has not yet proven anything. With the Bible or science.

How you do manage that without a either a sun, or an invented light source?

 

[dwb001]

Because otherwise there ain't one. So you invent one. A basketball, wasn't it?

No. You don't even understand a basic orbital model works.

No I don't need a light source. God didn't say he made a light source.. He made light.

How you do manage that without a either a sun, or an invented light source?

Because all you need for there to be a morning and evening is a rotating planet and light from only one place.

I could hypothesize a few light sources for you... but I would be guessing then.

 

[Jipsah]

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

How about if all you've told me is rubbish?

 

[Jipsah]

No. You don't even understand a basic orbital model works.

You toss it through a hoop?

No I don't need a light source. God didn't say he made a light source.. He made light.

So we can dispense with the sun altogether, right?

Because all you need for there to be a morning and evening is a rotating planet and light from only one place.

And where was that place, of which Genesis is silent?

I could hypothesize a few light sources for you... but I would be guessing then.

In other words, you'd have to make them up. Which is what I'v been saying all along.

You have no basis whatsever to support the beliefe that the "days" of Genesis were 24 hours long. You've simply made up rubbish about fictitious light sources (basketballs? Really?) and then just shucked and jived in the vain hope of sounding like any of the rubbish made sense. It didn't, and doesn't.

You have no reasonable basis at all for declaring that the "day" of Genesis was 24 hour long other than what you believe as a result of having read a total of one book of the Bible.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

How about if all you've told me is rubbish?

In the beginning of creation the first temptation ever was the snake saying, "Did God really say?" and people have been questioning what God has said ever since. It's not enough that Scripture says it is God breathed, or that scripture is Jesus Himself.

No people want to question God at every turn, at every verse, it's always "did God really say?" or "Did God really mean...?"

 

[Jipsah]

In the beginning of creation the first temptation ever was the snake saying, "Did God really say?" and people have been questioning what God has said ever since.

Fortunately I'm good with what God has said.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Fortunately I'm good with what God has said.

Then why question what God said when He says in Genesis that God created the Earth in 6 days?

 

[Jipsah]

Then why question what God said when He says in Genesis that God created the Earth in 6 days?

Because there's good evidence that it took a lot longer than that. Add to that the reason that Genesis wasn't intended to give detailed data. It's a quick and dirty overview, else it would have taken up volumes instead of two pages. Add to that the fact that God isn't bound by time as we are at all, so there's no way to tell at all how long it took Him to do anything in human terms. The best we can hope to do is glean that kind of info from the Creation itself. If that means upsetting the ninnies who try to place constraints on God then that's just too doggone bad.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Because there's good evidence that it took a lot longer than that. Add to that the reason that Genesis wasn't intended to give detailed data. It's a quick and dirty overview, else it would have taken up volumes instead of two pages. Add to that the fact that God isn't bound by time as we are at all, so there's no way to tell at all how long it took Him to do anything in human terms. The best wqe can hope to do is glean that kind of info from the Creation itself. If that means upsetting the ninnies who try to place constraints on God then that's just too doggone bad.

It sounds like a faith issue that people don't believe God could actually create everything in such a short time span.

Why does it say honor the sabbath day and rest on the 7th day because on that day God rested from his creation, why do people rest for a day and not 1,000s of years?

 

[Jipsah]

It sounds like a faith issue that people don't believe God could actually create everything in such a short time span.

"Couldn't" is altogether idiotic when speaking of God. "Didn't" is entirely appropriate. There's good hard evidence that God didn't whang together the universe in 6 solar days.

Why does it say honor the sabbath day and rest on the 7th day because on that day God rested from his creation, why do people rest for a day and not 1,000s of years?

It's a constant reminder that God created everything, symbolically all in 6 "days". Again, how long is a "day" for God? These weren't solar days as we measure then, there was no sun until the 4th "day". We nned to stop thinking of God in anthropomorphic terms. We're created in His image, but He isn't limited by any of the things that limit us.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

"Couldn't" is altogether idiotic when speaking of God. "Didn't" is entirely appropriate. There's good hard evidence that God didn't whang together the universe in 6 solar days.

It's a constant reminder that God created everything, symbolically all in 6 "days". Again, how long is a "day" for God? These weren't solar days as we measure then, there was no sun until the 4th "day". We nned to stop thinking of God in anthropomorphic terms. We're created in His image, but He isn't limited by any of the things that limit us.

It just seems like it's making things more complicated than they need to be. As of now I believe that if God took millions and billions of years to create the Earth He wouldn't in His own Bible put that it was 6 days. That doesn't line up with God's nature, to not be truthful to His own creation. We are intelligent to understand the span of days and years, God made a lot of intelligent people. That being said there are a lot of things I could be wrong on and I'll wait until I get to Heaven to ask those questions, but OP was right in saying this is a non-salvation issue. Also any argument that ends with "There is a lot of evidence for" and the evidence is a bunch of people that aren't believers I'm gonna have a hard time believing people who tend to want to lean in a worldly way of disproving God.

In short, I'm gonna take God at His word and not mans, as the title of this entire thread is called, "Do you trust God or man" I trust God.

 

[Wings like Eagles]

It just seems like it's making things more complicated than they need to be. As of now I believe that if God took millions and billions of years to create the Earth He wouldn't in His own Bible put that it was 6 days. That doesn't line up with God's nature, to not be truthful to His own creation. We are intelligent to understand the span of days and years, God made a lot of intelligent people. That being said there are a lot of things I could be wrong on and I'll wait until I get to Heaven to ask those questions, but OP was right in saying this is a non-salvation issue. Also any argument that ends with "There is a lot of evidence for" and the evidence is a bunch of people that aren't believers I'm gonna have a hard time believing people who tend to want to lean in a worldly way of disproving God.

In short, I'm gonna take God at His word and not mans, as the title of this entire thread is called, "Do you trust God or man" I trust God.

Well said!

 

[trophy33]

So you question the validity of the Word of God because you don't believe God had a hand in the actual writing of The Bible. It makes sense now, take God out of the influence in writing the Bible and then you can not believe it because you think it was just some guy who wrote it.

If you can do that then I guess the scripture of "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God." if you don't believe God influenced and inspired writing the Word of God then you probably also don't believe that God is actually composed of The Word either.

If you remove God from The Bible then you're not gonna believe most things written in it, and that is very sad.

Inspiration is not an automatic dictation. Human author is still present and uses words, styles or concepts known to him.

We are not the original audience, so its us who must learn how to read their writings with understanding, instead of thinking it was written for our mindset and for our popular culture concepts, in the style we want.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Inspiration is not an automatic dictation. Human author is still present and use words, styles or concepts known to him.

We are not the original audience, so its us who must learn how to read their writings with understanding, instead of thinking it was written for our mindset and for our popular culture concepts, in the style we want.

the concept of a day has been around for 1,000's of years. We know this based on historical texts. It can't get any more plain than this. No need to write paragraphs and pages explaining this.

 

[trophy33]

And you provide no proof of your claims.

These are generally known facts, not just claims.

1. Modern science (including historical sciences) did not exist back then.
2. Mythology was the popular genre first civilizations used, together with parallelism, metaphors, symbolism. In the time of the New Testament, their age was the age of philosophy, not of mythology, interestingly.

Its like proving Babylonians did not walk on the moon and Egyptians did not use cars. Human development has some order, including literature.

 

[dwb001]

You toss it through a hoop?

So we can dispense with the sun altogether, right?


And where was that place, of which Genesis is silent?



In other words, you'd have to make them up. Which is what I'v been saying all along.

You have no basis whatsever to support the beliefe that the "days" of Genesis were 24 hours long. You've simply made up rubbish about fictitious light sources (basketballs? Really?) and then just shucked and jived in the vain hope of sounding like any of the rubbish made sense. It didn't, and doesn't.

You have no reasonable basis at all for declaring that the "day" of Genesis was 24 hour long other than what you believe as a result of having read a total of one book of the Bible.

I would have to make something up because I do not know what the light was.

God could tell you what it was because He did it.

You believe the Creation, Garden and Flood are all morality tales? Mythological in nature? Then you have a Bible written by men and not a Holy Book at all. You have a man made religion. And as that is the case your god can not help you.

 

[trophy33]

I would have to make something up because I do not know what the light was.

God could tell you what it was because He did it.

You believe the Creation, Garden and Flood are all morality tales? Mythological in nature? Then you have a Bible written by men and not a Holy Book at all. You have a man made religion. And as that is the case your god can not help you.

What weird babbling is this? Understanding the style and purpose of ancient writings does not lead to "your god cannot help you".