Did Abraham observe the Sabbath day?

[oikonomia]

Let no one therefore judge you in eating and in drinking or in respect of a feast or of a new moon or of the Sabbath,
Which are a shadow of the things to come, but the body is of Christ. (Col. 2:16,17)

"Eating" covers ANY and ALL ceremonial ritual eating.

"Drinking" covers ANY and ALL cermonial ritual drinking.

"Feast" covers ANY and ALL ceremonial ritual feasting.

"New moon" covers ANY and ALL ceremonial ritual new moons.

"the Sabbath, or Sabbaths, or a Sabbath" likewise, covers ANY and ALL ceremonial ritual Sabbaths.

This I say that no one may delude you with persuasive speech. (v.4)

This includes "persuasive speech" especially designed to exempt someone's favorite
ceremonial "eating" or "drinking" or "feast" or "new moon" or thier favorite "Sabbath."

 

[ralliann]

I have read Hebrews. The problem is not that I have not read it, the problem is you do not understand it. Those Rabbis I quoted are from a very long time ago.

Oh but those Rabbis do understand heh?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

What point did I make which is a "moot point"?

There was a typo in my sentence. I meant to write - "other" where I wrote "the".

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Sometimes the NT says Christ died on a cross. At [OTHER] places it says He died on a tree.
Lovers of Christ enjoy the full benefit of His redemption whether the Greek NT said He died on a cross or a tree.
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Which point is a "moot point?"

your comparison of cross vs tree and your try at the same thing with the 2 much different words of Shabbat and the Greek Anapouso. Two different words and different contexts...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Let no one therefore judge you in eating and in drinking or in respect of a feast or of a new moon or of the Sabbath,
Which are a shadow of the things to come, but the body is of Christ. (Col. 2:16,17)

"Eating" covers ANY and ALL ceremonial ritual eating.

"Drinking" covers ANY and ALL cermonial ritual drinking.

"Feast" covers ANY and ALL ceremonial ritual feasting.

"New moon" covers ANY and ALL ceremonial ritual new moons.

"the Sabbath, or Sabbaths, or a Sabbath" likewise, covers ANY and ALL ceremonial ritual Sabbaths.

This I say that no one may delude you with persuasive speech. (v.4)

This includes "persuasive speech" especially designed to exempt someone's favorite
ceremonial "eating" or "drinking" or "feast" or "new moon" or thier favorite "Sabbath."

Colossians...you have to know what the context of that passage was. Who were they? WHO was judging them? What was the actual context?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Oh but those Rabbis do understand heh?

More than you it would seem.

 

[oikonomia]

your comparison of cross vs tree and your try at the same thing with the 2 much different words of Shabbat and the Greek Anapouso. Two different words and different contexts...

I didn't "verses" cross against tree.

I highlighted that the benefits of Christ's redemption are not at all altered by
the Koine Greek using two words.

 

[oikonomia]

Colossians...you have to know what the context of that passage was. Who were they? WHO was judging them? What was the actual context?

Who they were?

"No one" means anybody whoever they are.

This I say that no one may delude you with persuasive speech. (2:4)

Beware that no one carries you off as spoil through his philosophy and empty deceit, (v. 8)

Let no one therefore judge you in eating and in drinking . . . (v.16)

Let no one defraud you by judging you unworthy of your prize,. . . (v.18)

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I didn't "verses" cross against tree.

I highlighted that the benefits of Christ's redemption are not at all altered by
the Koine Greek using two words.

So? The discussion was regarding the DIFFERENCE in those 2 words.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Who they were?

"No one" means anybody whoever they are.

This I say that no one may delude you with persuasive speech. (2:4)

Beware that no one carries you off as spoil through his philosophy and empty deceit, (v. 8)

Let no one therefore judge you in eating and in drinking . . . (v.16)

Let no one defraud you by judging you unworthy of your prize,. . . (v.18)

LOL, it is importent to know "who they were" to understand the context of that passage....otherwise it can mean whatever you you want it to mean...

 

[oikonomia]

LOL, it is importent to know "who they were" to understand the context of that passage....otherwise it can mean whatever you you want it to mean...

I am suprised that the clear text seems to go right over your head.
Its more puzzling, that you find that amusing.

 

[oikonomia]

So? The discussion was regarding the DIFFERENCE in those 2 words.

The discussion from this poster's intention was to indicate this
case. Some difference in words do not effect some important matters
pertaining the experience of Christ.

I don't know why you're here as you came a bit late to the discussion.
And I will not be pulling your intention out of you like pulling teeth.

You can continue with little minimalist comments or you can
come out and write enough to let us know what overall position you're trying to convey.

My position has been pretty clear from the beginning.
Christians should not fall to the temptation of exalting the 7th day Sabbath over Christ.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The discussion from this poster's intention was to indicate this
case. Some difference in words do not effect some important matters
pertaining the experience of Christ.

I don't know why you're here as you came a bit late to the discussion.
And I will not be pulling your intention out of you like pulling teeth.

You can continue with little minimalist comments or you can
come out and write enough to let us know what overall position you're trying to convey.

My position has been pretty clear from the beginning.
Christians should not fall to the temptation of exalting the Sabbath on the 7th day over Christ.

Why are you pitting obeying God against God? This sounds like a doctrine from another gospel.

If one chooses to keep the 3rd commandment are they exalting obeying God's Word over God?

It's always the Sabbath that people try to separate from God's Ten when God didn't. I know who doesn't want us to obey God's commandments Rev 12:17 and that certainly is not God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Anyway, for those interested in digging a little deeper in Col 2:14-17 its an important topic because some want you to believe you do not need to obey God's 4th commandment when there is absolutely no scripture that says this....I would hate to be wrong about one of God's commandments.


This is taken from an older thread that has detailed information breaking this down...https://www.christianforums.com/threads/colossians-2-14-17-are-you-being-told-the-truth-updated.8158141/

It's a detailed study because there is a lot here. The readers of Hebrews would understand what it means because this grouping of ceremonial offerings related to the sanctuary is not new, its repeated from the OT. In the NKJV the annual sabbath(s) are always lower-case s, the weekly Sabbath commandment is always capital S. Not everyone is interested in the Truth behind the Sabbath commandment, but those who are interested in the Truth to God's Word I would recommend prayerfully reading and studying because we are talking about one of God's Ten Commandments, Jesus said to not break the least of the commandments Matthew 5:19 I think the commandment God said to Remember that He blessed and made holy should not be considered a least commandment, but Jesus wants us not to break the least of the commandments or teach others to break. Sin is defined as breaking the commandments Romans 7:7 so its impossible that the seventh day Sabbath which is part of this unit of Ten God placed together to be shadow of anything.

14, Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

GREEK WORD MEANINGS AND WORD USE

14, “BLOTTING OUT” < G1813 ἐξαλείφω exaleipho (ex-a-lei'-fō) v. means to rub out, i.e. obliterate, erase> the “HANDWRITING” < G5498 χειρόγραφον cheirographon (chei-ro'-gra-fon) n. means something hand-written (“chirograph”), a manuscript specially, a legal document > of “ORDINANCES” < G1378 δόγμα dogma (d̮og'-ma) n. means ordinance; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL or ECCLESIASTICAL LAWS> that was against us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The GREEK WORD meanings here in this scripture show that it follows the same CONTEXT of v11-13 in relation to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

V14 Blotting out or erasing the legal MANUSCRIPT or document of ORDINANCES referred to here are those of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

The GREEK word for ORDIANACE is DOGMA meaning THE CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES once again only found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant *EXODUS 24:7

This scripture cannot be referring to the abolishing of the 10 commandments of God’s LAW as God’s 10 Commandments are not ORDINANCES and they are not written in a MANUSCRIPT they are written on two tables of stone (Exodus 31:18). Also the chapter CONTEXT is in reference to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION once again from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT. These were all SHADOWS ALONG WITH THE ORDINANCES OF v17 pointing to Christ and the plan of SALVATION.

ORDINANCES that were against us is referring to the also referring to the PENALTY of SIN (breaking God’s Commandments which is death) and the ORDINANCES of curses written once again in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant.

ECCLESIASTES 18:20 20, The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.

ROMANS 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] Take this Book of the Law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

DEUTERONOMY 30:19 [19] For GOD has said, I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, BLESSINGS AND CURSES: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: [20] That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest OBEY his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD swore unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

The death penalty is against us. So were all the ceremonial laws from the OLD COVENANT that were required to seek God's forgiveness *LEVITICUS 16. In the NEW COVENANT we are forgiven by FAITH through confession and repentance for our sins *1 JOHN 1:9; MATTHEW 3:2 . No more animal sacrifices required.

(See the list of ORDINACES for curses of breaking Gods’ Law in DEUTERONOMY 28:15-68)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

LINKING THE NEW TO THE OLD – COLOSSIANS 2:14 “ORDINANCES” CONTINUED

COLOSSIANS 2:14 [14], Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross

HEBREWS 9:1;9-10; 12 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings

HEBREWS 10:4-10 [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come in the volume of the book it is written of me, to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

EPHESIANS 2:15-16 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

HEBREWS 13:9-12 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings which were a figure. A shadow

EZEKIEL 46:14 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

EZEKIEL 45:17 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give BURNT OFFERINGS, and MEAT OFFERINGS, and DRINK OFFERINGS, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

HEBREWS 10:1-4 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings).

NUMBERS 19:2 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

JOHN 6:55 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

NUMBERS 18:8 [8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, BY AN ORDINANCE for ever.[9] This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: EVERY OBLATION of theirs, EVERY MEAT OFFERING of theirs, and EVERY SIN OFFERING of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.The new covenant is all about the blood of Christ and God's LAW written on the heart in those who BELIEVE the WORD of GOD. Not changing the law....but fulfilling the law

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YEA, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

ZECHARIAH 9:9-11 [9] Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, THY KING COMETH UNTO THEE: HE IS JUST, AND HAVING SALVATION; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***.[10] And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.[11] As for thee also, BY THE BLOOD OF THY COVENANT I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water

Verse 9 definitely prophecies of the coming Jesus. Verse 11, Jesus is called the blood of thy covenant

HEBREWS 12:23-24 [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, [24] And to Jesus THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND TO THE BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

New covenant... blood

LUKE 22 [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

Where is all this leading? The NEW COVENANT of course...

JEREMIAH 31:31-34, [31] Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:[32], NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt ; MY COVENANT WHICH THEY BROKE, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD:[33], But THIS SHALL BE MY COVENANT THAT I SHALL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISREAL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND I WILL WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE; [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

2 CORINTHIANS 3:2-3 [2], You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: [3], Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN THE FLESHLY TABLES OF THE HEART. (see all of 2 COR 3)

…………

CONCLUSION; Jesus did not come to change or destroy GOD'S LAW (10 Commandments). It is through GOD's LAW that we have a KNOLWEDGE of what SIN is. The sabbath is still to be kept. He came to fulfil what was written of Him in the BOOK OF THE LAW OF ORDINANCES and to END the Mosaic law for remission of SIN and the penalty of SIN in those who BELIEVE. COLOSSIANS 2 is not talking about God’s 10 COMMANDMENTS. NO MORE ORDINANCES WRITTEN IN THE MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT Ceremonial/Levitical/Sacrificial laws and animal sacrifices and FORGIVENESS OF SIN and DELIVERANCE from the PENALTY of SIN through FAITH in CHRIST and the BLOOD of the NEW COVENANT.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

THE GREEK WORD MEANINGS OF THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT LINKING THE NEW TESTAMENT BACK TO THE OLD TESTAMENT?

We have seen from the previous sections; looking at the “CHAPTER CONTEXT” in COLOSSIANS 2:11-14 that the “SUBJECT MATTER” and the “TOPIC OF CONVERSATION” prior to COLOSSIANS 2:16 are the “SHADOW LAWS” from the “MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT IN “ORDINANCES” (e.g. CIRCUMCISION) that point to JESUS and God’s plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

What is being discussed here is NOT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS for which God’s 4th Commandment SABBATH is a part of. So the next question is;

“WHAT IS THE GREEK WORD MEANING AND APPLICATION USED HERE FOR SABBATH and the WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT AND APPLICAION?”

So in this section I would like to discuss the meaning of the GREEK word for “SABBATH” (SABBATON) which is different to the HEBREW Word meaning which provides a different meaning depending on it’s application and can mean;

1. “the SABBATH (God’s 4th commandment)” or
2. “ANY DAY OF REST OR REPOSE FROM SECULAR WORK” or
3. “A SEVEN DAY WEEK”
4. Singular or plural application (depending on context)

Depending on the words applcaion within the scriptures, all the word definitions listed above can be applied in singular form or in plural application.

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G4521
σάββατον sabbaton Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

This means ALL the ANNUAL FEAST days that were not the SEVENTH DAY but where no work was to be done are also translated as SABBATON in the Greek.

Let’s apply this now to COLOSSIANS 2:16 asking the question which definition should be applied here; what is the meaning that COLOSSIANS 2:16 is applying?

OK lets now look at the "within scripture context" of COLOSSIANS 2:16 linking the ORIGIN of the OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT scriptures that PAUL is referring to.

COLOSSIANS 2:16 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY [FEASTIVALS], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAY <plural>:

PAUL'S within scriptures CONTEXT and use of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 is in reference to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures also liked here…..

EZEKIEL 45:17 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give BURNT OFFERINGS, and MEAT OFFERINGS, and DRINK OFFERINGS, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

NUMBERS 28 [9] And on the Sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a MEAT OFFERING, mingled with oil, and the DRINK OFFERING thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of EVERY SABBATH, beside the continual BURN'T OFFERING, and his DRINK OFFERING.

ISAIAH 1:10-14 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I AM FULL OF THE BURNT OFFERINGS of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] BRING NO MORE VAIN OBLATIONS; incense is an abomination unto me; THE NEW MOONS AND SABBATHS, THE CALLING OF ASSEMBLIES (annual festivals), I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your NEW MOONS and your APPOINTED FEASTS my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

LEVITICUS 23:4 [4] These are THE FEASTS OF THE LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. [5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is THE LORD'S PASSOVER. [6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread…… [13] And the MEAT OFFERING thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the DRINK OFFERING thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

HOSEA 2:11 [11], I will also cause all her mirth to CEASE, HER [ISRAEL'S] FEAST DAYS, her NEW MOONS, and HER SABBATHS, and all HER [ISRAELS] SOLEMN FEASTS.

wait for it back to the NEW...

HEBREWS 9:1-12 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO, ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] WHICH WAS A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

HEBREWS 10:1-9
[1], FOR THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW OF GOOD THINGS TO COME, AND NOT THE VERY IMAGE OF THE THINGS, CAN NEVER WITH THOSE SACRIFICES which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
[2], For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[3], But in those SACRIFICES there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[4], For it is not possible that THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND GOATS should take away sins.
[5], Why when he comes into the world, he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS YOU WOULD NOT BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME:
[6], IN BURN'T OFFERINGS AND SACRIFICES FOR SIN YOU HAVE HAD NO PLEASURE.
[7], Then said I, See, I COME IN THE VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME, to do your will, O God.
[8], Above when he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERINGS FOR SIN YOU WOULD NOT, neither had pleasure therein; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW;
[9], Then said he, See, I come to do your will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second.

NOTE; the LAW in reference here is NOT God's 10 Commandments but the law of sin offereings from the SHADOW laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the LAW *DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26 from the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 (Please look at the attached scriptures)

CONCLUSION: COL 2:16 is not in reference to God's 10 Commandments. They are in reference to the ceremonial laws in ORDINANCES connected to feast days and the annual sabbaths that are directly connected to feasts that can fall on any day of the week and not God's "SEVENTH DAY" weekly Sabbath that is outside of the JEWISH annual festivals that is a part of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20

The GREEK word meaing and application of SABBATHS; SABBATH DAYS from COLOSSIANS 2:16 as shown in the CHAPTER CONTEXT and WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT is to the application of the GREEK word meaning to “ANY DAY OF REST OR REPOSE FROM SECULAR WORK” which is a reference to the HOLY CONVOCATIONS

 

[SabbathBlessings]

SABBATON (SABBATH DAYS) IN COLOSSIANS 2:16 WHAT IS IT POINTING TO?

WHAT IS PAUL TALKING ABOUT IN COL 2:16-17? (linking the OLD to the NEW)

COLOSSIANS 2:16-17, Let no man therefore judge you in (1) MEAT, OR IN DRINK, or in respect of an (2) FEASTIVAL, or of the (3) NEW MOON, or of the (4) SABBATH DAY{S} PLURAL: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

What is Paul referring to from the OLD TESTAMENT?

EZEKIEL 45:17-21, It shall be the prince’s duty to furnish the burnt offerings, (1) MEAT OFFERING AND DRINK OFFERINGS, at the (2) FEASTS, the (3) NEW MOONS, and the (4) SABBATH{S}, AT ALL THE APPOINTED (2) FEASTS OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL

PAUL is referring to the Old Testament annual sabbaths in the feast days. This is the context and subject matter of Colossians 2:16 showing direct reference to EZEKIEL 45:17!

The CONTEXT of LEVITICUS 23 here are the appointed times of the ANNUAL FESTIVALS. These ANNUAL FESTIVALS are once a year events and includes days of HOLY CONVOCATION. A HOLY CONVOCATION in Hebrew means;

HOLY קדשׁ ; qôdesh From H6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstractly sanctity: - consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary.

CONVOCATION מקרא; miqrâ'; From H7121; something called out, that is, a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the palce); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading.

So CONTEXT of LEVITICUS 23 is lising all the days of HOLY CONVOCATION for the ANNUAL FEASTIVALS. That are SACRED PUBLIC MEETINGS for the YEARLY FEAST DAYS.

God's 4th Commandments is a part of the ANNUAL FEAST days because many FEASTS were longer then 7 days or the FEASTS could start on any day depending on the YEARLY CYCLE.

This is different to the "special annual sabbath" that are connected directly to the feast days that could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. So we are not discussing the same thing here.

God's 4th Commandment which is one of God's 10 commandment that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. God's 4th commandment is not one of the "special" annual sabbaths strictly linked to the feastivals like those listed in LEVITICUS 23

These "special" sabbaths linked directly to certain festivals can fall on any day of the week and are only used in the annual Jewish festivals of

1. Feasts of Trumpets (Lev 23:24) or
2. Day of Atonement (Lev 23:32 or
3. Feast of Booths (Lev 23:39)

Unlike God's 4th commandment SABBATH which is striclty every SEVENTH DAY of the week required outside of the feasts days and are a part of God's 10 Commandments.

SO dig deeper my brothers and sisters.

Receive God's WORD and be blessed.

 

[oikonomia]

Why are you pitting obeying God against God? This sounds like a doctrine from another gospel.

If one chooses to keep the 3rd commandment are they exalting obeying God's Word over God?

It's always the Sabbath that people try to separate from God's Ten when God didn't. I know who doesn't want us to obey God's commandments Rev 12:17 and that certainly is not God.

One judges one day above another; another judges every day alike. Let each be fully persuaded in his own mind. (Rom. 14:5)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

One judges one day above another; another judges every day alike. Let each be fully persuaded in his own mind. (Rom. 14:5)

Hopefully you will dig a little deeper- this is not referring to the seventh-day Sabbath commandment that God esteemed above all other days. The seventh day Sabbath is not mentioned once in this verse so why add whats not there?

Anyway another in-depth study on this passage for those who wish to dig deeper into God's Truth

IS ROMANS 14 TELLING US WE DO NOT HAVE TO KEEP THE SABBATH?

TIME TO UNLEARN THE LIES ABOUT GOD’S WORD

TIME TO UNLEARN THE LIES ABOUT GOD’S WORD Welcome dear friends. May God bless you as you seek Him through His Word. All you have to do is turn on the news today to see that the signs of the times of the end of the world are being fulfilled in quick succession. Nearly everyday we see wars and...

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Let''s unlearn the lies of Romans 14.

Very simply a careful reading of Romans 14 shows that there are only two verses talking about days that men esteem over other days in regards to eating and not eating and judging others in this regard in application to judgements of opinion in context to food and days that men esteem over other days (Romans 14:1-6).

Keep in mind here reading the chapter you will not see anywhere that the subject matter is talking about eating and not eating on days that God esteems over other days. It does not mention anywhere in the chapter it is talking about God's 10 commandments and neither is there any reference in this chapter that is talking about God's 4th commandment Sabbath. To come up with an interpretation that Romans 14 is talking about the Sabbath is to read into the scriptures what the scriptures do not say or teach anywhere.

What the scriptures do say and teach simply as we read what is written (not what is not written) we see that Romans 14:1-5 is talking about days that men esteem over other days in regards to eating and not eating certain types of food and judging others in this regard in application to personal opinions in context to food and days that men esteem over other days. It is not talking about days that God esteems over other days and the scriptures tell us that the things that "men esteem" are an abomination to God in Luke 16:15.

So there is no application to any day that God esteems over other days. The day that God esteems over other days according to the scriptures is the "seventh day" Sabbath where we see that God set apart the "seventh day" from all the other days of the week as a memorial of creation and "blessed the seventh day" making it a holy day of rest for all mankind (see Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27) and commands His people to keep it as a memorial of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth in Exodus 20:8-11.

The scriptures show that Gods' Sabbath is the day that God esteems over other days. Jesus also stating he is the Lord (creator) of the Sabbath *Mark 2:28; Matthew 12;8 and it is His holy day taking ownership of the Sabbath as a day that God esteems over other days as God claims the Sabbath as His holy day in *Isaiah 56:4; Isaiah 58:13; Ezekiel 20:12-24; Ezekiel 22:8; Ezekiel 22:38; Exodus 31:13; Leviticus 19:3)

In fact an interpretation that Romans 14 is talking about the Sabbath pretty much goes against the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles in the entire new testament scriptures as Jesus and the Apostles and Paul and the disciples all kept the Sabbath and continued keeping the Sabbath well after the death and resurrection of Jesus (Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1 Corinthians 11:1; Ephesians 5:1-21; Peter 2:20-22; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4).

Romans 14 is mistakenly used by some as “proof” that there is no Sabbath law today. The seventh-day Sabbath was established at creation and included in the 10 Commandments and faithfully remembered by Jesus and the apostles and the New Testament Church. Yet many believe the doubtful things Paul talked about somehow included the Sabbath and made it obsolete for Christians today even when nothing in this regards is written anywhere in the whole chapter of Romans 14.

Romans 14:1 which is the context show that the subject matter here is to do with "doubtful disputations" or “doubtful things”, yet Paul would never refer to the Old Testament as “doubtful.” The Greek word for “doubtful” means “reasoning's” or “opinions” (Romans 14:1-2). In other words, Paul was addressing matters of personal opinion in this chapter, in regards to food and days that men esteem over other days and judging others in this regard, not matters of law.

What does the passage actually say? Romans 14:5-6 “One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.”

In order to understand any part of the Bible, it is necessary to take what is said in context. The entirety of verse 6 reads: “He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.”

How were the people “observing” a day? There are a few views here. Some believe that it is a reference that was a problem at the time to meat being sold in the market place sacrificed to idols and believers not wanting to eat these meats because they thought they would be offending God. There is evidence of this also happening as a problem for the Corinthian believers in 1 Corinthians 8:1-13 which uses similar language to that used in Romans 14. Here is a link to an interesting article that may be of interest showing the background to this problem for believers in Paul's day if your interested with further scripture support (Here linked).

Another view is that Romans 14:5-6 is in reference to eating and not eating (fasting) on days that men esteem over other days. This has reference back to the gospels where the Jews would have preference over days for fasting on (eating and not eating) *see Luke 18:10-14. The application here is to days that men esteem over other days for eating and not eating.

SOME POINTS TO CONSIDER IN ROMANS 14:1-23

[1] the days spoken of are associated with eating/drinking, not eating/not drinking.
[2] the matter is over those 'weak' and 'strong' in faith concerning eating/drinking and days to do and not do those things on

[3] the context deals with "One man esteemeth", and not what God esteems (Isaiah 56:1-8, 58:13; Psalms 89:34) as permanent and so, and God's word is clear about what men esteem: Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. The Jews continually argued over which were better days to do this thing or that thing, like fasting, feasting, etc: [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]

[4] the words for sabbath is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
[5] the words of the seventh day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
[6] the words for the Lord's day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
[7] Romans 14 is in the context of Romans 13, which directly cites the latter (2nd) table of the Ten Commandments, for love to neighbour, which is also found in Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of sin and the Ten Commandments.

[8] Romans 15 is the other end, and when combined with 1 Corinthians 8-10, the context is clear that the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11) is not in view in the least, and is sustained by the rest of Paul in Romans by his statements on the eternal spiritual, holy, just and good Law (Exodus 20:1-17) of God, which identifies what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

[9] the entire context of Romans 14 is to do nothing (even if allowed normally, yet not under special circumstances) to cause others to sin: Romans 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

[10] Paul never contradicts himself, and Paul's writings are scripture (2 Peter 3:16), and scripture cannot be broken, John 10:35) and does not teach transgression of God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17) at any point:
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Romans7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW: FOR I HAD NOT KNOWN LUST, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

[11] the words for "law", "commandments" are never used in Romans 14
[12] Paul in numerous places lists and upholds every single one of the Ten Commandments in the NT, including the 4th Commandment (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) in Hebrews 3-4, etc.

[13] Romans 14 is about excluding those things which were "doubful disputations", and not a single one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) were ever doubtful or to be disputed in any place in all of scripture (KJB), for the Commandment of God are "sure" (Psalms 111:7).

[14] the words for "covenant/testament" are never used in Romans 14
[15] the words for 'first [day] of the week' are never used in Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
[16] none of the 'Sunday' (first [day] of the week) churches use Romans 14 to teach that I may ignore the day they gather on, even though that day is not sanctified by God in any way what so ever in scripture (KJB), and is never called "the Lord's day" in scripture, neither is it "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God".

[17] nobody uses Romans 14 to teach I can simply stop eating/drinking on every day
[18] anyone who quotes Romans 14, has in mind 'restrictions', rather than allowances

.................

CONCLUSION: There is nothing about God's 4th commandment anywhere in Romans 14. The scriptures are talking about food connected to days (eating and not eating (fasting) on days men esteem over other days. Not what days God esteems and judging others. The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes.

LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God

There is no mention in all of ROMANS 14 of God's 4th commandment or any of God's 10 commandments. Many try and read this into the scriptures but it is just not there in all the chapter.

 

[GDL]

A few questions for the oft repeated Sabbath debate. If I'm chiming in too late here, please feel free to say so.

• Is the 4th commandment representative of God's unchanging moral character commanded of men?
• When Jesus was questioned about His disciples picking & eating grain on Sabbath, did He answer with examples of moral character or with examples of ceremony?
• In NC Scripture, is Jesus during His time of ministry ever said to have rested on Sabbath, or do we see Him working as He sees our Father working?
• A few more very obvious ones re: those who observe the 4th Word and their families:
  • Were they in bondage in Egypt?
  • Do they work 6 days per week?
  • Do they partake of any services where people are working on the 7th day?
  • Do they require strangers in their gates to not work?

Thanks.

LOL, it is importent to know "who they were" to understand the context of that passage....otherwise it can mean whatever you you want it to mean...

Who do you see in context being literally "not anyone"?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

A few questions for the oft repeated Sabbath debate. If I'm chiming in too late here, please feel free to say so.

Hi GDL- I know how you feel about the Sabbath from previous discussions, but I'll answer these questions to the best of my abilities.

• Is the 4th commandment representative of God's unchanging moral character commanded of men?

Yes, Paul quotes from the Ten to define the law that points out sin when broken Romans 7:7 and what we will be judged by James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 Ecc 12:13-14 so it is the morally right thing for God's people to follow God's righteousness Psa 119:172 and Truth Psa 119:151 and God does not want His children to sin, which is morally wrong. God never separated the Sabbath from the other 9 commandments man did this. God specifically called them the Ten Commandments, or Ten Words that God personally placed these together on stone written by His own finger and it really surprises me how many Christians argue against these commandments, or mainly the one commandment God said to Remember and is holy and blessed by God.

• When Jesus was questioned about His disciples picking & eating grain on Sabbath, did He answer with examples of moral character or with examples of ceremony?

Jesus said they were blameless Mat 12:7 because it is not a sin to eat on the Sabbath and what they were doing was no different than picking a piece of fruit on the Sabbath and eating it. They were not harvesting wheat; they were walking with Jesus and hungry and eating is not a sin on the Sabbath I hope you are not taking the side of the Pharisees here who crucified Jesus without a cause. The Pharisees were accusing the apostles and Jesus of breaking their sabbath, not the Sabbath in the Ten Commandments. They added many rules to the God's Sabbath, which Jesus was correcting them.

• In NC Scripture, is Jesus during His time of ministry ever said to have rested on Sabbath, or do we see Him working as He sees our Father working?

I think many misunderstand the word rest- it does not mean to be in bed and to do nothing. The commandment is to keep the Sabbath day holy Exo 20:8 and we rest from physical work in order to do this. The purpose of the Sabbath is for man to spend time with God. We cannot know someone if we do not spend quality time with them and God is no different, which is why He set aside, blessed and made holy time for man to spend time with Him because man cannot sanctify themselves only God can Eze 20:12 regardless how hard they try.

• A few more very obvious ones re: those who observe the 4th Word and their families:
  • Were they in bondage in Egypt?

There are parallels that many miss from the time in the wilderness to where we are now. We are experiencing a similar trial and the bondage in Egypt also represents the bondage to sin, which we are all in since the devil has dominion over the earth. Jesus is going to free us one day soon from our trial which we are in today- just like the Israelites were tested -so are we today. Will we pass the test?

Do they work 6 days per week?

Work does not necessarily mean working at a job. It could include doing laundry, gardening, running errands, any secular work. God gives us 6 days to get all our work and labors done and only asks for one day back where we can unplug from the world and just spend quality time with Him.

• Do they partake of any services where people are working on the 7th day?

Generally no, but if one is injured or in an emergency, like examples Jesus provided, it is not a sin to get emergency services.

• Do they require strangers in their gates to not work?

Yes, I run a business, and no one works on the Sabbath even though many ask to.