Is Calvinism a heresy?

[Derf]

It is quite impossible, however, to exercise faith without knowledge. For example, one cannot exercise faith in the ethical system known as Confucianism unless one knows the fundamentals of that system.

Fundamentals like what it's supposed to do for you perhaps? What problems it solves? Of course! That's called "the gospel" in Christianity, and it explains both the problem, death, and the solution, life in Christ. Faith comes by hearing the gospel (your "knowledge"), which is by the word (command, perhaps) of God. Once a person hears, he has a responsibility to respond. That's where faith has to be put into practice; faith without works is useless.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Fundamentals like what it's supposed to do for you perhaps? What problems it solves? Of course! That's called "the gospel" in Christianity, and it explains both the problem, death, and the solution, life in Christ. Faith comes by hearing the gospel (your "knowledge"), which is by the word (command, perhaps) of God. Once a person hears, he has a responsibility to respond. That's where faith has to be put into practice; faith without works is useless.

What happens to those who never hear?

 

[Derf]

What happens to those who never hear?

I have a solution, but it opens up a whole new can of worms. If faith comes by hearing, and they don't hear, then they aren't saved...yet.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I have a solution, but it opens up a whole new can of worms. If faith comes by hearing, and they don't hear, then they aren't saved...yet.

You are right about the whole new can of worms. Would you be interested in opening it on a new thread?

 

[Derf]

You are right about the whole new can of worms. Would you be interested in opening it on a new thread?

Yes, but it's a work in progress for me, so it definitely belongs in the controversial Christian theology section.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yes, but it's a work in progress for me, so it definitely belongs in the controversial Christian theology section.

That is exactly what I was thinking based on your response. Please let me know when you would like to start that thread.

 

[ladodgers6]

Some here say Calvinism is a heresy or if not a heresy then a system of beliefs some of which are heretical or in error.

Others say that Calvinism is accurate and good.

I am among the first group.

I am among the second group.

 

[ladodgers6]

The Catholic Church does not consider Calvinism, a theology developed by John Calvin in the 16th century, to be heretical. However, it does disagree with certain aspects of Calvinist theology, particularly the belief in double predestination, the doctrine that God predestines some individuals to eternal salvation and others to eternal damnation. The Catholic Church teaches that God desires the salvation of all humanity, and that every person has the free will to accept or reject God's grace.

The Catholic Church also disagree with the beliefs of the "Limited atonement" which is the belief that Jesus died only for the elect. The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus died for all humanity, and that his sacrifice on the cross is sufficient for the salvation of all people.

In summary, while the Catholic Church does not consider Calvinism to be heretical, it disagrees with certain aspects of Calvinist theology, particularly the belief in double predestination and limited atonement.

The Catholic Church disagrees with Justification by Faith. And agrees that the works of the believer will be the final justification upon which their salvation is the basis.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

The Catholic Church disagrees with Justification by Faith. And agrees that the works of the believer will be the final justification upon which their salvation is the basis.

Not so, but nevertheless what do you make of Jesus' teaching?
Matthew 25:

31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit down upon the throne of his glory,​

32 and all nations will be gathered in his presence, where he will divide men one from the other, as the shepherd divides the sheep from the goats;​

33 he will set the sheep on his right, and the goats on his left.​

34 Then the King will say to those who are on his right hand, Come, you that have received a blessing from my Father, take possession of the kingdom which has been prepared for you since the foundation of the world.​

35 For I was hungry, and you gave me food, thirsty, and you gave me drink; I was a stranger, and you brought me home,​

36 naked, and you clothed me, sick, and you cared for me, a prisoner, and you came to me.​

37 Whereupon the just will answer, Lord, when was it that we saw thee hungry, and fed thee, or thirsty, and gave thee drink?​

38 When was it that we saw thee a stranger, and brought thee home, or naked, and clothed thee?​

39 When was it that we saw thee sick or in prison and came to thee?​

40 And the King will answer them, Believe me, when you did it to one of the least of my brethren here, you did it to me.​

41 Then he will say to those who are on his left hand, in their turn, Go far from me, you that are accursed, into that eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels.​

42 For I was hungry, and you never gave me food, I was thirsty, and you never gave me drink;​

43 I was a stranger, and you did not bring me home, I was naked, and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison, and you did not care for me.​

44 Whereupon they, in their turn, will answer, Lord, when was it that we saw thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee?​

45 And he will answer them, Believe me, when you refused it to one of the least of my brethren here, you refused it to me.​

46 And these shall pass on to eternal punishment, and the just to eternal life.​

 

[FireDragon76]

Once again, I feel compelled to chime in to say no, Calvinism is not heresy. I did once subscribe to it; this is no longer the case, but I still respect it. Some Calvinists do subscribe to theological errors like iconoclasm, including John Calvin himself, but since the 19th century there have been many Calvinists who reject iconoclasm, and thus many Presbyterian and Congregationalist churches built in the mid 19th century and early 20th century have beautiful stained glass windows, frescoes and other iconography. But this problem does not make Calvinism heretical.

I suspect the use of stained glass and gothic statues and carvings in Protestant churches was due more to the influence of Romanticism, than any specific rejection of Calvin's theology. With more distance from the politics of feudal Europe, there was also less reflexive disgust at the idea, whereas in previous centuries, politics make iconclasm easier to swallow. Also during this period, Protestant scholars were beginning to realize that Calvin's vision of the early church did not line up with the actual evidence from newly discovered documents from the time period, and there was more interest in liturgical renewal, even in Reformed churches.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

There are heresies in the canon of Calvinist teaching. Many who claim to hold to Calvinism in one form or another, especially some among the "reformed Baptists", are inclined to voice Nestorian views on Christology, as we have witnessed in another CF thread recently.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I suspect the use of stained glass and gothic statues and carvings in Protestant churches was due more to the influence of Romanticism, than any specific rejection of Calvin's theology. With more distance from the politics of feudal Europe, there was also less reflexive disgust at the idea, whereas in previous centuries, politics make iconclasm easier to swallow. Also during this period, Protestant scholars were beginning to realize that Calvin's vision of the early church did not line up with the actual evidence from newly discovered documents from the time period, and there was more interest in liturgical renewal, even in Reformed churches.

Romanticism did, indeed, play an enormous part in the adoption of these Catholic aspects into nineteenth-century Protestantism. There is a book which I have found to be very enlightening on this aspect, Gothic Arches, Latin Crosses: Anti-Catholicism and American Church Designs in the Nineteenth Century.

 

[FireDragon76]

Romanticism did, indeed, play an enormous part in the adoption of these Catholic aspects into nineteenth-century Protestantism. There is a book which I have found to be very enlightening on this aspect, Gothic Arches, Latin Crosses: Anti-Catholicism and American Church Designs in the Nineteenth Century.

This was also the era of the growth of high church Protestant movements in the US and Europe, like the Oxford Movement or Mercersburg theology, in most magisterial Protestant denominations. Even Lutheranism had similar 19th century development. The theology started to focus more on the church as an evolving, organic way of life, rather than merely being a state sanctioned social service or voluntary association (closer to the model of the magisterial reformers themselves).

The churches that became known as "Fundamentalists" tended to reject these developments, though, which is why you tend to see the split more along mainline/fundamentalist churches. There are some conservative Protestant churches, though, that embraced the aesthetic, but most didn't.

 

[bbbbbbb]

This was also the era of the growth of high church Protestant movements in the US and Europe, like the Oxford Movement or Mercersburg theology, in most magisterial Protestant denominations. Even Lutheranism had similar 19th century development. The theology started to focus more on the church as an evolving, organic way of life, rather than merely being a state sanctioned social service or voluntary association (closer to the model of the magisterial reformers themselves).

The churches that became known as "Fundamentalists" tended to reject these developments, though, which is why you tend to see the split more along mainline/fundamentalist churches. There are some conservative Protestant churches, though, that embraced the aesthetic, but most didn't.

Yes. The Ecclesiologists in England did their best to restore the Anglican Church to its medieval past with the result being seriously overrestored churches and cathedrals and an enormous number of stunning Gothic Victorian churches, many of which have been wantonly destroyed or declared redundant. I like the group called Friends of Friendless Churches in England.

In Great Britain and its colonies there were was a serious divide between the architectural output of the Established Church (aka Anglicans) and Dissenters, including the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church tended to opt for Renaissance and Baroque splendour with an occasion foray into Byzantine and Gothic, despite A. W. N. Pugin's dramatic efforts to revive Gothic as the True Christian Architecture. Most other Dissenters either opted to retain the Plain Style of the Reformation or, when numbers and finances were abundant, worked primarily in a Renaissance style. There were some very impressive Chapels constructed in Wales which are even more vulnerable to rampant demolition today than the Established Churches there. This is a sad commentary on the two aspects of intolerance found within the British system - religious intolerance which spills over to architectural intolerance.

On the mission fields in the colonies, Great Britain is really quite interesting. Although the initiative had been taken by Dissenters, despite the intolerance of the East India Company which believed that meddling with the religious beliefs of the natives was bad for business, proselytization became extremely active as the nineteenth century wore on. The vast majority of Dissenters opted for the Plain Style adapted to the local building technologies and climate. For example, the China Inland Mission, which was immensely influential in central China, has left a very meager heritage in terms of the built environment, but laid the groundwork for the current thriving non-governmental Protestant Christian church. The Established Church, by contrast, was deeply conflicted. On one hand, it viewed itself as the outpost of Christianity and Civilization and, therefore, desired to construct an environment, both religious and secular, which replicated Home for the colonists. One of the problems was climatic. What worked really well in a cold northern climate did not work so well in a tropical and/or dry climate. Still, magnificent efforts were made. For example, St. Andrew's Anglican Cathedral in Sydney, Australia was designed by the famous Australian architect, Edmund Blacket, in a superlative Gothic Revival style to rival any of the cathedrals at Home. Curiously, it is not a High Anglican Church, but is professedly and actively Low.

Some of the Anglican mission churches were adapted to the cultural and climatic conditions, often with a sometimes-successful synthesis but many times not. At the Low end of the spectrum were the renowned metal churches which were fabricated in northern England and Scotland and shipped to all parts of the Empire. They were primarily made of sheets of corrugated galvanized iron which proved not only to be quite durable, but also surprisingly popular.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

The Ecclesiologists in England did their best to restore the Anglican Church to its medieval past with the result being seriously overrestored churches and cathedrals and an enormous number of stunning Gothic Victorian churches, many of which have been wantonly destroyed or declared redundant. I like the group called Friends of Friendless Churches in England.

John Calvin would have denounced them as idolaters!

 

[bbbbbbb]

John Calvin would have denounced them as idolaters!

Calvin was not nearly the iconoclast as was Ulrich Zwingli.

The fact is that, for all the appropriation of Gothic architecture, not to mention the other historic styles, even the most extreme Ecclesiologists did not cross the line and introduce statuary in their churches. Thus, you will find innumerable High Victorian Gothic church buildings with empty Gothic niches and with two candles (not six) on the altar.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Calvin was not nearly the iconoclast as was Ulrich Zwingli.

The fact is that, for all the appropriation of Gothic architecture, not to mention the other historic styles, even the most extreme Ecclesiologists did not cross the line and introduce statuary in their churches. Thus, you will find innumerable High Victorian Gothic church buildings with empty Gothic niches and with two candles (not six) on the altar.

So, in essence, even these elaborate buildings maintained the fundamental element of iconoclasm.

 

[bbbbbbb]

So, in essence, even these elaborate buildings maintained the fundamental element of iconoclasm.

Depending upon one's perspective they did or they did not. There were serious riots in various cities and towns in England when some of the more egregious High Churchmen instituted Romish practices in the churches. Of course, none of this was at all new. Centuries before, the Byzantine Empire went through a major stage of iconoclasm with the final compromise being reached that two-dimensional representations were acceptable in churches, but three-dimensional (statues) representations were not.

 

[returntosender]

You're not supposed to label anything a heresy here.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Depending upon one's perspective they did or they did not. There were serious riots in various cities and towns in England when some of the more egregious High Churchmen instituted Romish practices in the churches. Of course, none of this was at all new. Centuries before, the Byzantine Empire went through a major stage of iconoclasm with the final compromise being reached that two-dimensional representations were acceptable in churches, but three-dimensional (statues) representations were not.

England succumbed to deep anti-Catholic bigotry, in some ways it still is deeply bigoted against Catholicism.