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David Brooks: What if We’re the Bad Guys Here?

ThatRobGuy

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The MAGA Republicans now seem to have to have opinions that:
masks are bad
Covid vaccine is bad
Lockdowns are bad
Ivermectine is good
HCQ is good
any gun restrictions are bad
Trans therapy is bad
Main Stream Media is leftist
Big Tech is leftist
FBI is leftist
DOJ is leftist
Courts are leftist
Elections are rigged
Left are socialists, communists and marxists
That's not a fair critique, and I'll explain why...

Trump promoted the vaccines (it's one of the few things he was willing to get booed at his own rally for)....for superficial reasons? Likely, he likes to take credit for "operation warp speed" and claim the covid vaccines as his own as if he was in the lab working on them. If you recall, Trump was trying to get the vaccines rolled out earlier (for selfish reasons abeit) so he could take credit for them. Kamala Harris and Biden both cast shade on it for reasons resembling "I'm not going to take something just because Trump says it's okay and he wants to act like a hero"...fast forward a few months "if you don't take the very same vaccine I cast shade on a few months back, you're selfish and not doing your part to end the pandemic"

Mainstream media is largely on the left (he may use harsh language to convey that point), but it's true none the less

Social media companies are/were largely on the left. The fact that a moderate like Musk buying one of the companies caused pearl clutching is evidence of that

Trump never said any gun restrictions were bad...another thing he took flak from his own party for was when he supported red flag laws and made the comment of "I say we should take the guns first"

Obviously he's wrong when he said the election was rigged and courts are leftist...the courts are balanced, and he claimed the election was rigged because his ego won't let him believe he lost.

Many on the left do identify with socialism now...they may have an incorrect definition of it. But when you have groups of left leaning protestors waving hammer and sickle flags and groups (that the left wing supported) saying they support marxism and wanting to dismantle capitalism, they kinda giftwrapped that talking point for him.
If this is true, I find it very bizzare that Bernie supporters would vote for Trump.
Bernie promotes social policies including single payer health, promotes progressive taxes, supports unions. I don't know how you go from that to supporting Trump's wall, reduction in tax for the rich, support banning Muslims.
Because, like I noted before, money isn't everything to everyone... many people may prefer Bernie's economic policies, but not at the expense of having to embrace modern gender theory or change their tune on abortion.
This is a culture war issue and these aren't political policies.
Correct, that was my point... there are plenty of people who support the policies of the left, but the thing that stops them from voting for the are the cultural issues.
People are allowed to not have abortions, people are allowed to not be LGBT, Govt isn't forcing this on anyone.
They're not forcing people to partake in those activities, but there certainly is a push to make people to accept those things even if they don't want to (right or wrong)

For instance, if there was a political party that agreed with you 100% economically, but one of the buy-ins was you had to pretend that AR-15's were awesome, and climate change is a hoax, would you support that party? Or would have some issues with it?
It's funny because I see "Left" and "Progressives" as being pragmatists and the opposite of "idealists" and I see the USA right as being idealists. e.g. saying how dare government mandate I wear a mask or mandate I get vaccinated. What about my 1st amendment right? Or how dare they impose any restrictions on guns, what about my 2nd amendment right?

I see the left as pragmatists, because, although they support Capitalism, they also want social benefits such as schools, hospitals, prisons, health care, living support etc.
Neither side are "across the board" pragmatists...we shouldn't kid ourselves on that one. Both sides are appealing to things for the "feels" and ignoring common sense.
Could you provide an example here. I don't understand what you mean about "forced to give lip service to certain progressive ideologies"
Like, what ideology, and how is it that govt are forcing this on entities?
Sure, the big example is LGBT issues. When some on the left frame the arguments around "Life saving care" (implying that if you disagree with them on anything, you must be okay with people committing suicide), that's a level of emotional manipulation and gaslighting that people wouldn't tolerate in most other circumstances when considered rationally.

When people like Beto O'Rouke get up and say "any church that refuses to perform same sex marriages should be striped of their 501c3 status" to a massive round of applause, that's an implication that "you do things our way or face consequences"

I've mentioned before, when "the bar" gets moved from tolerance to "you have to see this as a good thing", that's when backlash occurs.
 
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BPPLEE

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If there is one thing Trump is not doing, it's telling people how to think.

That is, perhaps, the greatest distinction between him and the Democratic Party, for which "re-education" is a primary agenda item.

Trump would allow people to keep their prejudices, whatever those prejudices may be. Democrats want to re-educate people out of their prejudices.
I’m not a fan but one thing Trump does is listen to people. Then he talks about the things that people care about. He talks about a lot of other things he shouldn’t but people are willing to overlook that because they feel someone is listening to them
 
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stevil

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Trump promoted the vaccines (it's one of the few things he was willing to get booed at his own rally for).
Trump hid the fact that he got the vaccine. While other leaders were getting vaccinated on camera, Trump did not.
Trump was promoting HCQ when his scientists were saying that although it looked promising, that there wasn't enough evidence yet to support/promote it.



Likely, he likes to take credit for "operation warp speed" and claim the covid vaccines as his own as if he was in the lab working on them.
Yeah, he went a bit overboard. Even claiming that since he had an uncle that was a scientist that somehow he has "science" in his being.
But anyway, I'd rather him brag and promote the vaccine than not promote it. He left it very late, but he did eventually promote it.

If you recall, Trump was trying to get the vaccines rolled out earlier (for selfish reasons abeit) so he could take credit for them.
Yes, he was purely political about the matter.

Kamala Harris and Biden both cast shade on it for reasons resembling "I'm not going to take something just because Trump says it's okay and he wants to act like a hero".
Well, the Right have been casting a weird spin and apparently you have been listening and taking this on board.
What Karmala and Biden said was that if the Science professionals say its good then they will take their word for it, rather than Trump's.

I think it is reasonable for people to be worried about operation warp speed, worried about whether important corners were cut.
Ultimately the qualified scientists said this was properly tested and was safe and effective, and Biden and Fauci took their vaccines on camera.

..fast forward a few months "if you don't take the very same vaccine I cast shade on a few months back, you're selfish and not doing your part to end the pandemic"
Well, you know. Once Fauci and CDC and FDA and such said the vaccine was tested, safe and effective.

Mainstream media is largely on the left (he may use harsh language to convey that point), but it's true none the less
I don't believe this.

I do think though that the USA 24x7 news channels have too much time to fill in, so they insert lots of opinion and indepth talking and this waters down the actual news so much that it is hard to find the actual news.

Social media companies are/were largely on the left. The fact that a moderate like Musk buying one of the companies caused pearl clutching is evidence of that
Musk is destroying Twitter. The guy is weird.
Social media companies are mostly not left or right. They have some rules like anti discrimination, anti violence etc.
I find it weird how some on the right think that the Right need to get their message across using discrimination, violence and lies about Covid related stuff.
Filtering that stuff off Social Media doesn't mean that Social Media are leftists.

Trump never said any gun restrictions were bad...another thing he took flak from his own party for was when he supported red flag laws and made the comment of "I say we should take the guns first"
Trump has flip flopped.
His biggest trope is that he says "They want to take your guns", to instil fear into those that are excited about guns, so that they will vote for him.
As far as I know Trump isn't a gun person.

Obviously he's wrong when he said the election was rigged and courts are leftist...the courts are balanced, and he claimed the election was rigged because his ego won't let him believe he lost.
Look, if my favourite party, my favourite leader did everything right, but tried to instil anger and violence in the people by lying about a "stolen election". I would not vote for them ever. Free and fair elections are the most necessary thing in a democracy.


Many on the left do identify with socialism now...they may have an incorrect definition of it. But when you have groups of left leaning protestors waving hammer and sickle flags and groups (that the left wing supported) saying they support marxism and wanting to dismantle capitalism, they kinda giftwrapped that talking point for him.
Sorry, who in congress, who in the white house wants out and out socialism?


many people may prefer Bernie's economic policies, but not at the expense of having to embrace modern gender theory or change their tune on abortion.
But then again Biden and Karmala aren;'t promoting gender theory. They aren't forcing that on anyone.


there are plenty of people who support the policies of the left, but the thing that stops them from voting for the are the cultural issues.
These cultural issues are fabricated by the right. They mischaracterise the position of the left.
If you want to know the position of the left, look to Joe Biden and Karmala. Look to the policies and campaign promises.
Don't ask Hannity, Ingram, Piro and Tucker what the left are promoting and promising.


They're not forcing people to partake in those activities, but there certainly is a push to make people to accept those things even if they don't want to (right or wrong)
How is Biden doing this push?

For instance, if there was a political party that agreed with you 100% economically, but one of the buy-ins was you had to pretend that AR-15's were awesome, and climate change is a hoax, would you support that party? Or would have some issues with it?
Sure, yeah, people need to weigh everything up.
The problem is, that people that listen to right wing propoganda shows are not judging the Democratic party by what the Democratic party are actually doing. They are basing it on a mischaracterisation of the Dems.

At the moment we have on one side a presidential candidate that has been impeached twice
- once for trying to force a foreign leader into publicly accusing the candidates political rival of crimes (without evidence)
- once for inciting an insurrection and trying to steal the 2020 election
As well as three indictments awaiting trial
- one for stealing documents, refusing to return them, lying about them, getting others to lie about them and help conceal them
- one for hush money payments and illegal campaign contributions (of which his coconspirator lawyer served time in prison)
- one for election interference, including the illegal alternate electors scheme

vs a perception of Democrats forcing people to accept CRT, LGQBT, abortion - none of these things are in Biden's policies or campaign promises. But are merely assumed to be so by Right Wing opinion show hosts.

Sure, the big example is LGBT issues. When some on the left frame the arguments around "Life saving care" (implying that if you disagree with them on anything, you must be okay with people committing suicide), that's a level of emotional manipulation and gaslighting that people wouldn't tolerate in most other circumstances when considered rationally.
What is Biden and Karmala doing regading LGBT issues? How are they forcing people to accept it?
Don't paint Biden by what just any random person professing to be on the "left" says.

When people like Beto O'Rouke get up and say "any church that refuses to perform same sex marriages should be striped of their 501c3 status" to a massive round of applause, that's an implication that "you do things our way or face consequences"
What has Biden said about this topic? He is a Catholic right, I'm sure he isn't trying to force the Catholic church to perform same sex marriages
 
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RDKirk

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What is Biden and Karmala doing regading LGBT issues? How are they forcing people to accept it?
Talk to workers in the military about that.

There is also the enormous DEI bureaucracy Kamala created that is rolling over industry like a hippo giving birth to quads.
 
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9Rock9

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As I touched on a little bit before, I think people who are putting a lot of the emphasis on the economic aspects and his private/business life behaviors are missing the real reasons people were actually voting for him.

For them, Trump was "the guy who isn't going to tell me I have to radically change my opinions, and the guy who leave me the hell alone and let me do things my way"

I also made reference to the fact that a lot of Trump supporters liked Bernie. (there was a large number of people who supported Sanders in the primary, but once he didn't get the nod, switched and voted for Trump). I think that's in large part to Bernie not really getting into the weeds on the social issues. He focuses on working class issues, and had a message in that regard that a lot of the were receptive too.

They're not opposed to all Democratic party principles. A lot of them could be "gettable" votes if there were a democrat who said "we want to tax the rich more and uses the proceeds to do XYZ for the middle class", and didn't try to force them to flip their opinions on abortion and LGBT issues.

They just saw the current iteration of democrats (specifically the democrats who were being portrayed as the new "rising stars of the party"), and they saw the kinds of people democrats had started pandering to (millennial idealistic types who wanted safe spaces and to dictate what others could and couldn't say) and people who would gaslight them constantly by attaching "life saving care" descriptors to the things they know they weren't fans of as a means of making them look like bad people.

And they said "I don't want them leading the country, I'll vote for whoever will be the biggest bulwark against that, and who will let me do my thing"

Some could see that approach as right or wrong...but it is what it is.

I personally see it as a bad voting strategy...I oppose a lot of the stuff about the excesses of the left they oppose, but let cooler heads prevail and voted for Biden merely as a means to get Trump out of there as I saw the writing on the wall and had serious concerns about how desperate Trump was to stay in power.

But I'm probably not in the exact same mindset as they are. Some of their resistance to the excesses of the left are rooted in their religious principles. I don't have a religion so my convictions on some of those things probably aren't as deep (for instance, while I oppose the concept of entities being forced to give lip service to certain progressive ideologies, but I don't believe in any heaven vs. hell implications...so I don't take it as seriously as they do), so figured I could tolerate 4 years of it and hope better options would come along for the next time around. (little did I know, we'd be getting a re-run of a senile guy vs. angry egomaniac...this time with both of those attributes being even worse than they were in 2020)

If by some miracle in Nov. 2024 Biden is upright and fit for office, and Trump isn't in jail and those are our options again, I'll likely stay home and order a pizza (or go back to voting for the libertarian party like I used to)
That's pretty much how I feel. I lean Republican, but it's really only because of abortion. If it weren't for that, the rest of the Democratic Party's policies would be more palatable to me.

Aside from abortion, I don't particularly care about social issues nor the culture war as long as no one is trying to force me to go against my convictions.

There are plenty of Christians, even Evangelicals, who aren't that different from Democrats on most stances (such as the economy or social programs) but feel uneasy about abortion.

I'm not even asking for a total abortion ban. I'm willing to accept moderate regulations just because that's better than nothing.

Idk if I'll vote for Trump again (assuming he's the nominee.) I might actually vote third party in that case. I appreciate what he did, especially with religious freedom, Supreme Court picks and overturning Roe, but he just has too much baggage now.

I'd seriously consider voting for Manchin if he runs for president, as I agree with the majority of his stances.
 
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stevil

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I'm not even asking for a total abortion ban. I'm willing to accept moderate regulations just because that's better than nothing.
Typically when things are outlawed then the government can't regulate it.
But if it is legal then govt can regulate.

I don't think the Democratic Party want an anything goes abortion. Of course they would make sure that the practitioners are qualified and have suitable equipment and facilities. And I very much doubt that many Democratic Party members want late term abortions, so there will be some cut off date (despite what right wing opinion show hosts say).

Also typically Democratic Party members and liberals in general want to reduce abortions, and they achieve that by supporting sex education, family planning, contraceptives etc.

But if you are against all of those things and its high on your priority list then perhaps the Democratic Party isn't for you.
 
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stevil

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Talk to workers in the military about that.

There is also the enormous DEI bureaucracy Kamala created that is rolling over industry like a hippo giving birth to quads.
I don't know what you are talking about regarding military.

DEI = Diversity, Equity and Inclusion????
Sounds good to me.
But I understand if some people are upset about racial quotas and affirmative action.
I'm not too fussed on affirmative action myself.

From an idealistic perspective I would like people to get jobs based on merit rather than race.
But from a pragmatic perspective I understand that there are certain hurdles facing certain demographics meaning that they are more often than not, missing out.
 
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stevil

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Former liberal, and leftist (her words) writer Sasha Stone's reaction to Brooks' article.
That article is bonkers. So I looked up Sasha Stone and found this.

is a British New Age influencer and conspiracy theorist.

Stone has stated that the COVID-19 vaccine is a conspiracy to implant a "nanochip" in the human body so that "the Beast" can "take control of their soul."

EDIT: MAybe this is a different Sacha Stone????
Anyway, the article is bonkers.
 
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RoBo1988

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That article is bonkers. So I looked up Sasha Stone and found this.

is a British New Age influencer and conspiracy theorist.

Stone has stated that the COVID-19 vaccine is a conspiracy to implant a "nanochip" in the human body so that "the Beast" can "take control of their soul."

EDIT: MAybe this is a different Sacha Stone????
Anyway, the article is bonkers.
I have read several of her blog posts from the same site, and have never seen anything anti vax. She was once a writer for the Hollywood Reporter, votes Democrat. Try Sasha, with an 's'.
 
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stevil

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I have read several of her blog posts from the same site, and have never seen anything anti vax. She was once a writer for the Hollywood Reporter, votes Democrat. Try Sasha, with an 's'.
Yeah, my mistake. I found a different person. Sorry.
 
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