Putin might turn to weapons of mass destruction if Russia doesn’t win in eastern Ukraine, historian

[loveofourlord]

They're looking to create a larger buffer between their major cities (i.e. Moscow, St. Petersburg) and NATO. Moscow is ~400 miles from Ukraine. St. Petersburg is ~100 miles from Estonia. This makes Putin uncomfortable. Ukraine is also a huge agricultural producer and has a lot of industrial capacity - both very useful for a situation in which Russia wants to be less dependent on the West.

yeah....I'm sure that industry and agriculture is going to be great asset to russia now.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

yeah....I'm sure that industry and agriculture is going to be great asset to russia now.

Russia was not expecting this level of resistance.

 

[timothyu]

I'm not saying that it's a good strategy, but that's the logic of expanding their borders.

That is the logic we are being conned into believing. This is not a matter of NATO vs the Warsaw Pact. It is simply a matter of those in both those sides, political gangsters who are profiting by keeping this going by turning this into some nationalistic fervour, and that includes those within Ukraine. We hear of Russian oligarchs but nothing is said of their partner oligarchs outside of Russia and specifically in NATO nations especially the US who also are benefitting from these wars as they always do.

It's like a global board game they play in order to create profits and the people foolishly think it is about waving a flag.

 

[loveofourlord]

Russia was not expecting this level of resistance.

True, but if they really wanted all of that they should do better job making sure it's still there, at this rate even if they win, they aren't getting much given how many have evacuated, or been kidnapped by Russia and the damage done to the country.

 

[timothyu]

True, but if they really wanted all of that they should do better job making sure it's still there, at this rate even if they win, they aren't getting much given how many have evacuated, or been kidnapped by Russia and the damage done to the country.

Ah but look at the money to be made by oligarchs of all nations, not only from the war, but the rebuild.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

That is the logic we are being conned into believing.

No one is "conning" me into believing that. It's my own analysis based on my knowledge of Russia's history. They've always relied on a doctrine of trading space for time. The lost that space when the USSR collapsed, and now they're trying to get some of it back.

From the Russian perspective, there's little economic reason to continue the war - their oligarchs are losing money every day at this point, as Western countries tighten their sanctions. They're still in it now because to give up would be a national embarrassment - also, they still hope to gain some territory.

There may be some merit to your theory that the West is supporting this war out of greed, but I feel like that's an overly cynical take

 

[timothyu]

There may be some merit to your theory that the West is supporting this war out of greed, but I feel like that's an overly cynical take

If it were not so they would be sending diplomats rather than loans and weapons. Austria which is neutral (and once a hundred years ago held western Ukraine in its domain) is the only one to meet face to face with Putin.

 

[Petros2015]

Hope it wasn't anthrax...

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/...ussia-of-chemical-weapons-attack-in-mariupol/

They've got about 48 hrs if it was.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

If it were not so they would be sending diplomats rather than loans and weapons. Austria which is neutral (and once a hundred years ago held western Ukraine in its domain) is the only one to meet face to face with Putin.

That's an overly simplistic view of things.

First of all, any diplomacy is a two-way street. Russia hasn't signaled any willingness to talk to other nations about this, and we do know that the US at the very least has open lines of communication with the Russians, and has had them since the beginning of the war.

Second, why shouldn't we offer support to a sovereign nation that's being invaded without cause? Sending aid does not preclude diplomacy.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Hope it wasn't anthrax...

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/...ussia-of-chemical-weapons-attack-in-mariupol/

They've got about 48 hrs if it was.

They're calling it a chemical attack, not biological, so I doubt it's anthrax.

 

[Petros2015]

They're calling it a chemical attack, not biological, so I doubt it's anthrax.

True, but might be difficult to tell the difference at first with something spore and not virus based.