Adventists affirm Mark 1:15 regarding Dan 9 and the 70 weeks prophecy and pre-advent Investigative Judgment of Dan 7

[BobRyan]

(In light of many of the recent all-ellen-white-all-the-time-threads) I thought it would be a refreshing switch to have a Bible topic we all have the background info to discuss.

The title is sure to catch the attention of one or two members here.

Dan 9 has a 70 weeks (490 days... becomes day-for-year 490 years) timeline predicting the coming of Christ.
Then in Mark 1:15 Christ says that the prediction of the first part - the 483 years is fulfilled with the start of His ministry

Mark 1:

9 In those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 And immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit, like a dove, descending upon Him; 11 and a voice came from the heavens: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”​

12 And immediately the Spirit *brought Him out into the wilderness. 13 And He was in the wilderness for forty days, being tempted by Satan; and He was with the wild animals, and the angels were serving Him.​

14 Now after John was taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”​

​

16 As He was going along the Sea of Galilee, He saw Simon and Andrew, the brother of Simon, casting a net in the sea; for they were fishermen. 17 And Jesus said to them, “Follow Me, and I will have you become fishers of people.” 18 Immediately they left their nets and followed Him.​

In Mark 1 we see the start of Jesus' ministry and it includes the message that the Dan 9 timeline predicting the exact year of Christ's first coming - had been fulfilled.

Dan 9:
24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the wrongdoing, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place. 25 So you are to know and understand that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until Messiah the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with streets and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then after the sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing

We find information about that decree referenced above in Dan 9 --- in Ezra 6,7 and in Ezra 9k

Ezra 6 tells us it is a 3-part decree with Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes all contributing to it.
14 And the elders of the Jews were successful in building through the prophecy of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they finished building following the command of the God of Israel and the decree of Cyrus, Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.

Ezra 7: 8-9 --- in 457 B.C.

8 And he ( Ezra the priest) came to Jerusalem in the fifth month, which was in the seventh year of the king.(Artaxerxes king of Persia) 9 For on the first day of the first month he began to go up from Babylon; and on the first of the fifth month he came to Jerusalem, because the good hand of his God was upon him. 10 For Ezra had firmly resolved to study the Law of the Lord and to practice it, and to teach His statutes and ordinances in Israel.​

11 Now this is the copy of the letter which King Artaxerxes gave to Ezra the priest, the scribe, learned in the words of the commandments of the Lord and His statutes to Israel: 12 “Artaxerxes, king of kings, to Ezra the priest,​

(vs 15-23 treasures, gifts, gold to be sent with Ezra)


Ezra's prayer

Ezra 9:9 For we are slaves; yet in our bondage our God has not abandoned us, but has extended favor to us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to give us reviving to erect the house of our God, to restore its ruins, and to give us a wall in Judah and Jerusalem​

======================

Dan 9 is given as an "explanation" to the vision of Dan 8... because among other things - Dan 8 has no start date and Dan 9 gives an exact start date.
Dan 9 is the only OT prophecy with a timeline pointing to the start date of the Messiah's ministry.

So then the 490 years of Dan 9 starts in 457 B.C.
And the 2300 years (day for year) in Dan 8 start in 457 B.C.

===========================

My title is - "Adventists affirm Mark 1:15 regarding Dan 9 and the 70 weeks prophecy and Investigative Judgment start in 1844"

But I can see that the Dan 7 "investigative judgment start in 1844" topic is too much for one thread so I am making it into its own thread.

 

[BobRyan]

Some basic rules
1. All Bible timelines are contiguous. so then the 70 years of Dan 9:1-4 are all one block. one timeline.
2. Apocalyptic symbolic timelines use day-for-year as in the case of Dan 7 , Dan 8, Dan 9, Rev 11, Rev 12, Rev 13

Dan 8 and Dan 7 address the same "little horn" problem - with the same solution.
But they give it two different names.

Since Dan 8 has its missing start date given in Dan 9 -- then the 2300 years of Dan 8 end in 1844

======================================================================
Some will respond by ignoring all the texts listed in this thread above and just posting something like "so-and-so has some other view of it"
OR they will respond by ignoring all the texts listed here and just posting "your view agrees with so-and-so".

For the purposes of this thread - we are looking for sola-scriptura substantive comments opposed to the OP or in agreement with it.
Both are fine.

 

[BobRyan]

Christ's statement in Mark 1:15 tells us exactly what the 69 weeks of Dan 9 are pointing to

All bible timelines are contiguous so then the 70 years in Dan 9 are one block, the 490 years of Dan 9 are one block, the 1260 years of Dan 7 are one block

Dan 7 clearly states that God's judgement takes place before the seconding - and WHILE the saints are being persecuted by the wicked.
See the following thread for details.

Adventists affirm Dan 7 pre-advent Investigative judgment (and then Dan 8 and Dan 9 for it being started in 1844)

Dan 7 describes the pre-advent Investigative judgment - vs 9-10 Pre-Advent Investigative (review of books, records in heaven by "the court") -- vs 21-22 "Judgment passed in favor of the saints" -- so they are being evaluated/reviewed/discussed (as Rom 2:4-16 describes it)...

www.christianforums.com

Somewhat connected to this thread topic is the following thread on the Judgment aspect of Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement Lev 16) and how it ties into Dan 7.

Adventists Affirm Dan 8:14, Lev 16 Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur, Judgment

Dan 8:14 references the cleansing of the Sanctuary Dan 7 and Dan 8 - both deal with the problem of "the little horn" persecuting the saints. In Dan 7 the solution is the pre-advent judgment (according to the chapter). You can discuss those details for Dan 7 on the following thread...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Bob_1000]

(In light of many of the recent all-ellen-white-all-the-time-threads) I thought it would be refreshing switch to having a Bible topic we all have the background info to discuss.

The title is sure to catch the attention of one or two members here.

Dan 9 has a 70 weeks (490 days... becomes day-for-year 490 years) timeline predicting the coming of Christ.
Then in Mark 1:15 Christ says that the prediction of the first part - the 483 years is fulfilled with the start of His ministry

Mark 1:

9 In those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 And immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit, like a dove, descending upon Him; 11 and a voice came from the heavens: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”​

12 And immediately the Spirit *brought Him out into the wilderness. 13 And He was in the wilderness for forty days, being tempted by Satan; and He was with the wild animals, and the angels were serving Him.​

14 Now after John was taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”​

​

16 As He was going along the Sea of Galilee, He saw Simon and Andrew, the brother of Simon, casting a net in the sea; for they were fishermen. 17 And Jesus said to them, “Follow Me, and I will have you become fishers of people.” 18 Immediately they left their nets and followed Him.​

In Mark 1 we see he start of Jesus' ministry and it includes the message that the Dan 9 timeline predicting the exact year of Christ's first coming - had been fulfilled.

Dan 9:
24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the wrongdoing, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place. 25 So you are to know and understand that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until Messiah the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with streets and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then after the sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing

(
We find information about that decree in Ezra 7 and in Ezra 9

Ezra 7: 8-9 --- in 457 B.C.

8 And he ( Ezra the priest) came to Jerusalem in the fifth month, which was in the seventh year of the king.(Artaxerxes king of Persia) 9 For on the first day of the first month he began to go up from Babylon; and on the first of the fifth month he came to Jerusalem, because the good hand of his God was upon him. 10 For Ezra had firmly resolved to study the Law of the Lord and to practice it, and to teach His statutes and ordinances in Israel.​

11 Now this is the copy of the letter which King Artaxerxes gave to Ezra the priest, the scribe, learned in the words of the commandments of the Lord and His statutes to Israel: 12 “Artaxerxes, king of kings, to Ezra the priest,​

(vs 15-23 treasures, gifts, gold to be sent with Ezra)


Ezra's prayer

Ezra 9:9 For we are slaves; yet in our bondage our God has not abandoned us, but has extended favor to us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to give us reviving to erect the house of our God, to restore its ruins, and to give us a wall in Judah and Jerusalem​

======================

Dan 9 is given as an "explanation" to the vision of Dan 8... because among other things - Dan 8 has no start date and Dan 9 gives an exact start date.
Dan 9 is the only OT prophecy with a timeline pointing to the start date of the Messiah's ministry.

So then the 490 years of Dan 9 starts in 457 B.C.
And the 2300 years (day for year) in Dan 8 start in 457 B.C.

Excellent find on MARK 1:15, I never notice that before. Thank you for posting this!

 

[tall73]

In the case of Daniel 9 you do not necessarily need to apply a year-day principle as various commentators (including Adventist commentators) have noted the likely reference to sabbatical years.

The Shabuim of Dan 9:24-27 - Weeks, Sevens or Weeks of Years

A parallel is drawn in Exod 34:10-12 between the seven-year cycle of sowing and rest for the land and the seven-day cycle of work and rest for human beings. This parallel is
immediately suggestive of weeks of years that correspond to weeks of days, and isi mplicitly brought into the context of Dan 9:2 via the affirmation that during the seventy years the land fulfilled the Sabbath rests that it had missed (2 Chron 36:21; cf. Lev 26:34, 35). In confirmation of this position, the period of seventy Shabuim in Dan 9:24 forms an obvious counterpart to the period of seventy annual Sabbaths compensated by the seventy years of desolation in Dan 9:2.32

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Christ's statement in Mark 1:15 tells us exactly what the 69 weeks of Dan 9 are pointing to
All bible timelines are contiguous so then the 70 years Dan 9 are one block, the 490 years of Dan 9 are one, the 1260 years of Dan 7 are one block

I agree that Daniel tells us the exact time of Jesus’ appearing, but the rest of your logic is contradicted by the Lord Himself in Acts chapter 1. “It is not for you to know the times and seasons which the Father has fixed by His own authority.” Jesus even tells us in Matthew 24 that no one knows the end of times, not the Angels in Heaven, just the Father only.
Jesus warns us that it is better to keep His commands rather than speculate on the time of His coming. He said that many people will come and claim to have knowledge of the end times, but He says no one knows.

Is God a liar, or are you mistaken?

 

[BobRyan]

Christ's statement in Mark 1:15 tells us exactly what the 69 weeks of Dan 9 are pointing to
All bible timelines are contiguous so then the 70 years Dan 9 are one block, the 490 years of Dan 9 are one, the 1260 years of Dan 7 are one block

Dan 9 has a 70 weeks(490 days... becomes day-for-year 490 years) timeline predicting the coming of Christ.
Then in Mark 1:15 Christ says that the prediction of the first part - the 483 years is fulfilled with the start of His ministry

Mark 1:

9 In those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 And immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit, like a dove, descending upon Him; 11 and a voice came from the heavens: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”​

12 And immediately the Spirit *brought Him out into the wilderness. 13 And He was in the wilderness for forty days, being tempted by Satan; and He was with the wild animals, and the angels were serving Him.​

14 Now after John was taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”​

​

16 As He was going along the Sea of Galilee, He saw Simon and Andrew, the brother of Simon, casting a net in the sea; for they were fishermen. 17 And Jesus said to them, “Follow Me, and I will have you become fishers of people.” 18 Immediately they left their nets and followed Him.​

In Mark 1 we see the start of Jesus' ministry and it includes the message that the Dan 9 timeline predicting the exact year of Christ's first coming - had been fulfilled.

Dan 9:
24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the wrongdoing, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place. 25 So you are to know and understand that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until Messiah the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with streets and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then after the sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing

We find information about that decree referenced above in Dan 9 --- in Ezra 6,7 and in Ezra 9k

Ezra 6 tells us it is a 3-part decree with Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes all contributing to it.
14 And the elders of the Jews were successful in building through the prophecy of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they finished building following the command of the God of Israel and the decree of Cyrus, Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.

Ezra 7: 8-9 --- in 457 B.C.

8 And he ( Ezra the priest) came to Jerusalem in the fifth month, which was in the seventh year of the king.(Artaxerxes king of Persia) 9 For on the first day of the first month he began to go up from Babylon; and on the first of the fifth month he came to Jerusalem, because the good hand of his God was upon him. 10 For Ezra had firmly resolved to study the Law of the Lord and to practice it, and to teach His statutes and ordinances in Israel.​

11 Now this is the copy of the letter which King Artaxerxes gave to Ezra the priest, the scribe, learned in the words of the commandments of the Lord and His statutes to Israel: 12 “Artaxerxes, king of kings, to Ezra the priest,​

(vs 15-23 treasures, gifts, gold to be sent with Ezra)


Ezra's prayer

Ezra 9:9 For we are slaves; yet in our bondage our God has not abandoned us, but has extended favor to us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to give us reviving to erect the house of our God, to restore its ruins, and to give us a wall in Judah and Jerusalem​

======================

Dan 9 is given as an "explanation" to the vision of Dan 8... because among other things - Dan 8 has no start date and Dan 9 gives an exact start date.
Dan 9 is the only OT prophecy with a timeline pointing to the start date of the Messiah's ministry.

So then the 490 years of Dan 9 starts in 457 B.C.
And the 2300 years (day for year) in Dan 8 start in 457 B.C.

I agree that Daniel tells us the exact time of Jesus’ appearing, but the rest of your logic is contradicted by the Lord Himself in Acts chapter 1. “It is not for you to know the times and seasons which the Father has fixed by His own authority.”

In Mark 1 Jesus declares the prophetic timeline in Dan 9 that points to "Messiah the prince" where it starts from the decree to rebuild and restore Jerusalem and goes for 483 years to the start of the ministry of the Messiah -- is fulfilled. He is not speaking about the future second coming but about the coming of Christ almost 2000 years ago.

Acts 1 says nothing about the coming of Christ in the first century still not being known/understood at the time of Acts 1 or that God did not intend them to know.

Jesus even tells us in Matthew 24 that no one knows the end of times,

The Mark 1 statement is not about the date of the second coming and Dan 9 is a timeline that only goes out for 490 years from 457 B.C. start date.

I don't see how that is in any way a contradiction of Acts 1.

 

[BobRyan]

In the case of Daniel 9 you do not necessarily need to apply a year-day principle

You do if you want that timeline to apply as Christ stated it in Mark 1:14-15 (which I note that you are not touching at this point).

the period of seventy Shabuim in Dan 9:24 forms an obvious counterpart to the period of seventy annual Sabbaths

Convoluted as that is - a great many Bible scholars and commentators point to the day year direct and straightforward application by contrast -- where the Ezra 7 start for that decree in 457 B.C. exactly fulfills Christ's statement about it being fulfilled in 27 A.D. in Mark 1.

Ezra 7 -- 457 BC
Acts 1:15 - 26 AD

Exactly 69 weeks of years -- 483 prophetic days... is 483 literal years.

 

[BobRyan]

during the seventy years the land fulfilled the Sabbath rests that it had missed (2 Chron 36:21; cf. Lev 26:34, 35).

No doubt that Daniel's prayer at the start of Dan 9 deals with the seventy literal years of Jeremiah's predicted captivity for Israel in Babylon and the fact that it was nearing its end. And no doubt as was pointed out - each year of captivity in Babylon corresponded to one missed Jubilee year in real history of Israel -- such that the land was owed the rest that it would get in the form of Israel destroyed and laid waste for that 70 year period of Captivity.

All of that - NOT the topic of Christ's statement in Mark 1 or the topic of the 70 weeks of years (490 years) of Dan 9's seventy week prophecy predicting the "The Messiah - the prince" starting his ministry on Earth.

 

[tall73]

No doubt that Daniel's prayer at the start of Dan 9 deals with the seventy literal years of Jeremiah's predicted captivity for Israel in Babylon and the fact that it was nearing its end. And no doubt as was pointed out - each year of captivity in Babylon corresponded to one missed Jubilee year in real history of Israel -- such that the land was owed the rest that it would get in the form of Israel destroyed and laid waste for that 70 year period of Captivity.

All of that - NOT the topic of Christ's statement in Mark 1 or the topic of the 70 weeks of years (490 years) of Dan 9's seventy week prophecy predicting the "The Messiah - the prince" starting his ministry on Earth.

It is of course related to your "basic rules."

 

[BobRyan]

It is of course related to your "basic rules."

My rules -
1. All timelines are contiguous so the 70 years of Jeremiah in Jer 25 and in Dan 9:1-5 are one block of exactly 70 years
2. All APOCALYPTIC timelines are day-for-year ... Jeremiah 25:10-11 is not at all apocalyptic.

If your argument is that the literal 70 years of Jeremiah's prophecy Daniel is reading at the start of Dan 9 is not at all the apocalyptic writing that we see in Dan 8 for the 2300 day-years and Dan 9 for the 490 day-years -- I already agree that Jeremiah was not writing apocalyptic prophecy in his 70 year prediction.

[Jer 25:11 NLT] 11 This entire land will become a desolate wasteland. Israel and her neighboring lands will serve the king of Babylon for seventy years.
[Jer 29:10 NLT] 10 This is what the LORD says: "You will be in Babylon for seventy years. But then I will come and do for you all the good things I have promised, and I will bring you home again.

If we turned that into "day for year" and so 70*365 then Israel would still be in captivity in a 25,550 year timeline.

Obviously Jeremiah 29 is not apocalyptic prophecy.

 

[tall73]

Tying together the sabbatical years and 1st century Messianic anticipation, the following Andrews university paper discusses a document at Qumran that appears to tie together the Sabbatical years and Daniel 9.

THE SEVENTY-WEEKS PROPHECY OF DANIEL 9:24–27 AND FIRST-CENTURY AD JEWISH MESSIANIC EXPECTATION

For Christians who interpret the seventy weeks of Daniel 9:24–27 by correlating the coming of the messiah with the arrival of Jesus Christ, the question of whether Jesus could have been identified as the predicted messiah at the time of fulfillment is theologically significant given biblical...

digitalcommons.andrews.edu

Essene messianic expectation and Daniel 9:24–27 converge explicitly in
Melchizedek (11Q13), which predicts an eschatological jubilee in association with a Melchizedek figure: “And this [wil]l [happen] in the first week of the jubilee (that occurs) after [the] ni[ne] jubilees. And the D[ay of Atone]ment i the e[nd of] the tenth [ju]bilee.”40 This jubilee is dated to the arrival of the “messenger” of Isaiah 52:7 who is identified with the “anointed of the spir[it]” (i.e. messiah) prophesied by “Dan[iel].” 41 According to the editors of the critical edition,

Thus, “11QMelchizedek represents an eschatological text that interprets the
restoration of Israel in Isa 61:1–3 within the framework of a sabbatical chronology that understands the 70 weeks of years in Daniel 9 in terms of jubilee years in Leviticus 25.”43

Here is a translated partly reconstructed text from Wikipedia:

11Q13 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

11QMelch II... And concerning that which He said, In [this] year of Jubilee [each of you shall return to his property (Lev. xxv, 13); and likewise, And this is the manner of release:] every creditor shall release that which he has lent [to his neighbour. He shall not exact it of his neighbour and his brother], for God's release [has been proclaimed] (Deut. xv, 2). [And it will be proclaimed at] the end of days concerning the captives as [He said, To proclaim liberty to the captives (Isa. lxi, 1). Its interpretation is that He] will assign them to the Sons of Heaven and to the inheritance of Melchizedek; f[or He will cast] their [lot] amid the potrtions of Melchize]dek, who will return them there and will proclaim to them liberty, forgiving them [the wrong-doings] of all their iniquities. And this thing will [occur] in the first week of the Jubilee that follows the nine Jubilees. And the Day of Atonement is the e[nd of the] tenth [Ju]bilee, when all the Sons of [Light] and the men of the lot of Mel[chi]zedek will be atoned for. [And] a statute concerns them [to prov]ide them with their rewards. For this is the moment of the Year of Grace for Melchizedek. [And h]e will, by his strength, judge the holy ones of God, executing judgement as it is written concerning him in the Songs of David, who said, ELOHIM has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgement (Psalms lxxxii, 1). And it was concerning him that he said, (Let the assembly of the peoples) return to the height above them; EL (god) will judge the peoples (Psalms vii, 7-8). As for that which he s[aid, How long will you] judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Selah (Psalms lxxxii, 2), its interpretation concerns Belial and the spirits of his lot [who] rebelled by turning away from the precepts of God to ... And Melchizedek will avenge the vengeance of the judgements of God... and he will drag [them from the hand of] Belial and from the hand of all the sp[irits of] his [lot].And all the 'gods [of Justice'] will come to his aid [to] attend to the de[struction] of Belial. And the height is ... all the sons of God... this ... This is the day of [Peace/Salvation] concerning which [God] spoke [through Isa]iah the prophet, who said, [How] beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of the messenger who proclaims peace, who brings good news, who proclaims salvation, who says to Zion: Your ELOHIM [reigns] (Isa. lii, 7). Its interpretation; the mountains are the prophets... and the messenger is the Anointed one of the spirit, concerning whom Dan[iel] said, [Until an anointed one, a prince (Dan. ix, 25)] ... [And he who brings] good [news] , who proclaims [salvation]: it is concerning him that it is written... [To comfort all who mourn, to grant to those who mourn in Zion] (Isa. lxi, 2-3). To comfort [those who mourn: its interpretation], to make them understand all the ages of t[ime] ... In truth ... will turn away from Belial... by the judgement of God, as it is written concerning him, [who says to Zion] ; your ELOHIM reigns. Zion is ..., those who uphold the Covenant, who turn from walking [in] the way of the people. And your ELOHIM is [Melchizedek, who will save them from] the hand of Belial. As for that which He said, Then you shall send abroad the trump[et in] all the land (Lev. xxv, 9) ...[9]

 

[BobRyan]

ok so from your link

THE SEVENTY-WEEKS PROPHECY OF DANIEL 9:24–27 AND FIRST-CENTURY AD JEWISH MESSIANIC EXPECTATION

For Christians who interpret the seventy weeks of Daniel 9:24–27 by correlating the coming of the messiah with the arrival of Jesus Christ, the question of whether Jesus could have been identified as the predicted messiah at the time of fulfillment is theologically significant given biblical...

digitalcommons.andrews.edu

"there is a consensus among scholars affirming the view that interpretation of the seventy-weeks prophecy led to a climate of messianic expectation among certain sectors of first-century Jewish society. This position is supported by the explicit connection of the seventy weeks to the anticipated arrival of a messiah"​

So then Christ's Mark 1:15 statement would have been understood by his listeners as pertaining to the Dan 9 seventy weeks prophecy using day-for-year reconning to get from 457 BC to the the Mark 1 point in time - AD 27.

Ezra 7 -- 457 BC
Acts 1:15 - 26 AD
Exactly 69 weeks of years -- 483 prophetic days... is 483 literal years. (Again.. "day for a literal year")

 

[BobRyan]

In the case of Daniel 9 you do not necessarily need to apply a year-day principle as various commentators (including Adventist commentators) have noted the likely reference to sabbatical years.

Your quote does not appear to bear out your assertion

The Shabuim of Dan 9:24-27 - Weeks, Sevens or Weeks of Years

A parallel is drawn in Exod 34:10-12 between the seven-year cycle of sowing and rest for the land and the seven-day cycle of work and rest for human beings. This parallel is
immediately suggestive of weeks of years that correspond to weeks of days, and isi mplicitly brought into the context of Dan 9:2 via the affirmation that during the seventy years the land fulfilled the Sabbath rests that it had missed (2 Chron 36:21; cf. Lev 26:34, 35). In confirmation of this position, the period of seventy Shabuim in Dan 9:24 forms an obvious counterpart to the period of seventy annual Sabbaths compensated by the seventy years of desolation in Dan 9:2.32

weeks of years is only obtained from "weeks of days" by using day-for-year.

 

[tall73]

My rules -
1. All timelines are contiguous so the 70 years of Jeremiah in Jer 25 and in Dan 9:1-5 are one block of exactly 70 years
2. All APOCALYPTIC timelines are day-for-year ... Jeremiah 25:10-11 is not at all apocalyptic.

If your argument is that the literal 70 years of Jeremiah's prophecy Daniel is reading at the start of Dan 9 is not at all the apocalyptic writing that we see in Dan 8 for the 2300 day-years and Dan 9 for the 490 day-years -- I already agree that Jeremiah was not writing apocalyptic prophecy in his 70 year prediction.


If we turned that into "day for year" and so 70*365 then Israel would still be in captivity in a 25,550 year timeline.

Obviously Jeremiah 29 is not apocalyptic prophecy.

No Bob, that is not my point. I hold the same view of the 70 weeks as Adventists. But the basis is sabbatical years. Remember the other statement about Jesus' mission:

Luke 4:16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:


18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me [i]to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are [j]oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”

20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

He frames His mission in another time statement, but also referring to the release of Captives, and the Jubilee.

 

[tall73]

ok so from your link
"there is a consensus among scholars affirming the view that interpretation of the seventy-weeks prophecy led to a climate of messianic expectation among certain sectors of first-century Jewish society. This position is supported by the explicit connection of the seventy weeks to the anticipated arrival of a messiah"

So then Christ's Mark 1:15 statement would have been understood by his listeners as pertaining to the Dan 9 seventy weeks prophecy using day-for-year reconning to get from 457 BC to the the Mark 1 point in time - AD 27.

Yes, though as the document itself shows, using sabbatical years. In other words, this is a source from the time connecting the jubilee cycles, to the statement of the Messiah in Jubilee terms, and to the 70 weeks.

The Adventist paper obviously is meant to support the Adventist view. But the reason it supports it is that it shows that people at the time were coming to the same conclusion without knowing, apparently, of Jesus.

 

[tall73]

The connection between sabbath years (Jubilee happens after 7 cycles of sabbath years) and Daniel 9 is also strengthened by the following:

2 chronicles 36:20 And those who escaped from the sword he carried away to Babylon, where they became servants to him and his sons until the rule of the kingdom of Persia, 21 to fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her Sabbaths. As long as she lay desolate she kept Sabbath, to fulfill seventy years.

 

[tall73]

And the above is a reference to the covenant curses:

Leviticus 26:27 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me,

28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury;
and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.

29 You[g] shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.

30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.

31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your [h]sweet aromas.

32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.

33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.

34 Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate and you are in your enemies’ land;
then the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths.

35 As long as it lies desolate it shall rest—
for the time it did not rest on your sabbaths when you dwelt in it.

 

[tall73]

As the time draws near for the end of Jeremiah's time period, based on the sabbatical years, the years they didn't keep prior, a prophecy is given in the context of sabbatical years, which points to the mission of the Messiah who then announces His mission in person in Jubilee terms, quoting Isaiah.

 

[The Liturgist]

(In light of many of the recent all-ellen-white-all-the-time-threads) I thought it would be a refreshing switch to have a Bible topic we all have the background info to discuss.

The title is sure to catch the attention of one or two members here.

Dan 9 has a 70 weeks (490 days... becomes day-for-year 490 years) timeline predicting the coming of Christ.
Then in Mark 1:15 Christ says that the prediction of the first part - the 483 years is fulfilled with the start of His ministry

Mark 1:

9 In those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 And immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit, like a dove, descending upon Him; 11 and a voice came from the heavens: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”​

12 And immediately the Spirit *brought Him out into the wilderness. 13 And He was in the wilderness for forty days, being tempted by Satan; and He was with the wild animals, and the angels were serving Him.​

14 Now after John was taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”​

​

16 As He was going along the Sea of Galilee, He saw Simon and Andrew, the brother of Simon, casting a net in the sea; for they were fishermen. 17 And Jesus said to them, “Follow Me, and I will have you become fishers of people.” 18 Immediately they left their nets and followed Him.​

In Mark 1 we see the start of Jesus' ministry and it includes the message that the Dan 9 timeline predicting the exact year of Christ's first coming - had been fulfilled.

Dan 9:
24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the wrongdoing, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place. 25 So you are to know and understand that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until Messiah the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with streets and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then after the sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing

We find information about that decree referenced above in Dan 9 --- in Ezra 6,7 and in Ezra 9k

Ezra 6 tells us it is a 3-part decree with Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes all contributing to it.
14 And the elders of the Jews were successful in building through the prophecy of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they finished building following the command of the God of Israel and the decree of Cyrus, Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.

Ezra 7: 8-9 --- in 457 B.C.

8 And he ( Ezra the priest) came to Jerusalem in the fifth month, which was in the seventh year of the king.(Artaxerxes king of Persia) 9 For on the first day of the first month he began to go up from Babylon; and on the first of the fifth month he came to Jerusalem, because the good hand of his God was upon him. 10 For Ezra had firmly resolved to study the Law of the Lord and to practice it, and to teach His statutes and ordinances in Israel.​

11 Now this is the copy of the letter which King Artaxerxes gave to Ezra the priest, the scribe, learned in the words of the commandments of the Lord and His statutes to Israel: 12 “Artaxerxes, king of kings, to Ezra the priest,​

(vs 15-23 treasures, gifts, gold to be sent with Ezra)


Ezra's prayer

Ezra 9:9 For we are slaves; yet in our bondage our God has not abandoned us, but has extended favor to us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to give us reviving to erect the house of our God, to restore its ruins, and to give us a wall in Judah and Jerusalem​

======================

Dan 9 is given as an "explanation" to the vision of Dan 8... because among other things - Dan 8 has no start date and Dan 9 gives an exact start date.
Dan 9 is the only OT prophecy with a timeline pointing to the start date of the Messiah's ministry.

So then the 490 years of Dan 9 starts in 457 B.C.
And the 2300 years (day for year) in Dan 8 start in 457 B.C.

Well, congratulations, but what you are affirming is not a doctrine the majority of Christians believe those Scriptures allude to. Indeed, I personally do not see how you can get from the texts you quoted to the conclusion that there is now an “investigative judgement,” which is something not mentioned in any of the eschatological texts in scripture. It represents an extremely esoteric and eisegetic interpretation of certain texts.

Now, many people make the argument that the Investigative Judgement was put forward as a means of explaining the lack of Christ’s appearance when the Great Disappointment occurred.

For my part, I have never understood why the Great Disappointment and other similar events can even happen, considering our Lord stated that the time of His return was known to the Father above, but not man; indeed the time of our Lord’s return appears to be epistemologically unknowable according to divine writ.