UFOs

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Thats the opposite of how it works. You make claims, you provide evidence. The more extraordinary claims, the more solid evidence you must provide.

That's not what the Bereans did in Acts 17:11. It says that when they heard the preaching of Paul, they searched the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. My assertion is that what I am saying is right and I don't see the need to prove it to you because you don't have any status in my life that I am obligated to prove anything to you. You can choose for yourself whether you think I am right or not, but if you genuinely want to know what is right or wrong then you will happily do your own research just as the Bereans did with Paul's preaching.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy.

Provide primary sources, data, records. Thanks.

I have already given my answer. If you are not prepared to make any effort to confirm what I am saying is so, then that ends our discussion.

 

[trophy33]

I have already given my answer. If you are not prepared to make any effort to confirm what I am saying is so, then that ends our discussion.

It is not a discussion, you simply presented some theory just because you heard it from somebody. But no evidence, not even a bit.

 

[trophy33]

That's not what the Bereans did in Acts 17:11. It says that when they heard the preaching of Paul, they searched the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. My assertion is that what I am saying is right and I don't see the need to prove it to you because you don't have any status in my life that I am obligated to prove anything to you. You can choose for yourself whether you think I am right or not, but if you genuinely want to know what is right or wrong then you will happily do your own research just as the Bereans did with Paul's preaching.

You seem to be able to provide verses from Bible, why you are not able to provide evidence for your UFO claims in the same manner?

It may be because you do not have them either, you just repeat the youtube video you posted. In such a case I do not know why you simply do not say so, instead of sending me to find it.

 

[Niels]

What evidence is there for such claim? What research, photographs or other materials are you referring to? How do you even officially identify a UFO crash site?

If there was debris, it would likely be identifiable as something prosaic and therefore cease to be a UFO. Are you asking him to provide evidence that no UFO debris was found? As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been any alien craft debris found at these sites. Unless we are to believe that the government keeps that information secret.

A number of things can cause small craters as long as there's sufficient kinetic energy. The physical object might have been a meteorite or a piece of debris from a satellite that mostly burned up in the atmosphere and disintegrated on impact, with the alien craft being illusory.

 

[trophy33]

If there was debris, it would likely be identifiable as something prosaic and therefore cease to be a UFO. Are you asking him to provide evidence that no UFO debris was found? As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been any alien craft debris found at these sites. Unless we are to believe that the government keeps that information secret.

A number of things can cause small craters as long as there's sufficient kinetic energy. The physical object might have been a meteorite or a piece of debris from a satellite that mostly burned up in the atmosphere and disintegrated on impact, with the alien craft being illusory.

Simply asking for the data source for "ufo crash sites", who releases such data? Military? I doubt so. Who can even confirm that its a UFO crash site? This all seem like some story, not science.

It also directly contradicts the Congress hearing, in which we have learned that the US military supposedly recovered both bodies and UFO's tech.

Therefore, there are several stories floating around and so to see the original data and the primary sources is needed.

 

[Niels]

Simply asking for the data source for "ufo crash sites", who releases such data? Military? I doubt so. Who can even confirm that its a UFO crash site? This all seem like some story, not science.

That's what makes this so frustrating. More story than science with no crafts or aliens to investigate. I'm not even sure how a UFO crash site would be defined as we don't know what the UFO is. And if we do know what it is then it is no longer unidentified.

What we're looking for in this case is unexplained craters, but most of those are probably written off as meteorites, space junk, or perhaps fireworks. Not necessarily the kind of thing that records are kept of.

 

[BobRyan]

is it a safe assumption that maybe we cannot speak for God in terms of everything He created? If the Bible specifically said "He created ONLY what is on Earth and in Heaven" then so be it, but remember we cannot say for sure that we know until we get to Heaven and He confirms it. It is better to be honest and humble in our knowledge rather than assume we know everything God did and did not do.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him,

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Now let's think about the idea of exegesis for a minute. Do you think John in John 1 or Paul in Col 1 was conveying the meaning "God did not create all those planets out there with intelligent life on them" -- OR do you think the language above shows that they meant to say ALL things were made by God and for God -

Also note that that bible speaks of 3 heavens - one is outer space, one is our atmospher and one is the physical location where God's throne and the Angels are located. Creating the heavens and the Earth means all of it.

 

[BobRyan]

Simply asking for the data source for "ufo crash sites", who releases such data? Military? I doubt so. Who can even confirm that its a UFO crash site? This all seem like some story, not science.

It also directly contradicts the Congress hearing, in which we have learned that the US military supposedly recovered both bodies and UFO's tech.

So then Representative AOC asks "IF you were ME - where would you look?" to find the answers to this question for congress.

IN that clip she is told she can have that info in a SCIF and that the person she is addressing can give that information to her in that setting.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/interactive/2023/scif-room-meaning-classified/

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It is not a discussion, you simply presented some theory just because you heard it from somebody. But no evidence, not even a bit.

I told you my source (Dr. Hugh Ross) and where his videos can be found. I think he makes a lot of sense and is worth checking out. Incidentally, my mother was a UFO researcher and she chaired a UFO club in her town. She was also into the occult as well. So, my personal experience with her links with what Dr. Ross is teaching about UFOs. One night she was adamant that she had sighted a UFO, but it turned out to be the planet Venus shining very brightly just above the horizon.

 

[BobRyan]

What evidence is there for such claim? What research, photographs or other materials are you referring to? How do you even officially identify a UFO crash site?


What research?

 

[BobRyan]

So, my personal experience with her links with what Dr. Ross is teaching about UFOs. One night she was adamant that she had sighted a UFO, but it turned out to be the planet Venus shining very brightly just above the horizon.

I think Ross' idea works well in that "I thought Venus was a UFO once, but I was wrong" context.

But I don't think it fits with the reality of what is being exposed in congress at the moment.

Nobody gets a life threatening visit from the military - because they mistake Venus for a UFO.

Nobody has to "Go to a SCIF" to find out that Venus is not a UFO

Nobody confiscates video, telemetry etc of Venus and leaves a US warship with it as if it is important that the people on board not know about Venus.

Ross' ideas work out great as long as nothing ever happens.

That world is just fine -- until the info comes out of the SCIF into the public domain and is generally accepted as "The new science".

In which case both you and I are going to be very uncomfortable.

I am already on record for "evolutionism is of the dark side -- and the Bible is the one telling the truth"
I am not going to be very happy if I have to start that with UFOs - when they too go mainstream.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him,

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Now let's think about the idea of exegesis for a minute. Do you think John in John 1 or Paul in Col 1 was conveying the meaning "God did not create all those planets out there with intelligent life on them" -- OR do you think the language above shows that they meant to say ALL things were made by God and for God -

Also note that that bible speaks of 3 heavens - one is outer space, one is our atmospher and one is the physical location where God's throne and the Angels are located. Creating the heavens and the Earth means all of it.

you realize you just quoted the verse saying "all things were made by Him" that doesn't somehow mean that all things he made were only on Earth.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

I told you my source (Dr. Hugh Ross) and where his videos can be found. I think he makes a lot of sense and is worth checking out. Incidentally, my mother was a UFO researcher and she chaired a UFO club in her town. She was also into the occult as well. So, my personal experience with her links with what Dr. Ross is teaching about UFOs. One night she was adamant that she had sighted a UFO, but it turned out to be the planet Venus shining very brightly just above the horizon.

I provided a video on Howard Storm testifying that Jesus told him in a near death experience that He made other creations besides us. I see no one has responded to that

 

[BobRyan]

you realize you just quoted the verse saying "all things were made by Him" that doesn't somehow mean that all things he made were only on Earth.

True. I claim he made the entire universe. That includes Angels that are of course not from Earth. and some of them turned out bad then got banned to Earth after Earth fell.

God "Created the Worlds" according to Heb 1:1-3 and Heb 11:1-4 -- not just this one world.

But all His worlds were created "very good" just as this one - and those other guys did not fall.

 

[BobRyan]

I provided a video on Howard Storm testifying that Jesus told him in a near death experience that He made other creations besides us. I see no one has responded to that

I am always promoting the Heb 1, and Heb 11 statement that God "Created the Worlds" - not just this one World.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I think Ross' idea works well in that "I thought Venus was a UFO once, but I was wrong" context.

But I don't think it fits with the reality of what is being exposed in congress at the moment.

Nobody gets a life threatening visit from the military - because they mistake Venus for a UFO.

Nobody has to "Go to a SCIF" to find out that Venus is not a UFO

Nobody confiscates video, telemetry etc of Venus and leaves a US warship with it as if it is important that the people on board not know about Venus.

Ross' ideas work out great as long as nothing ever happens.

That world is just fine -- until the info comes out of the SCIF into the public domain and is generally accepted as "The new science".

In which case both you and I are going to be very uncomfortable.

I am already on record for "evolutionism is of the dark side -- and the Bible is the one telling the truth"
I am not going to be very happy if I have to start that with UFOs - when they too go mainstream.

After everything is examined according to the 1% of UFO sightings that are not hoaxes or mistaken views of stars and reflected light, then the only conclusion arrived at can only be a demonic source.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I provided a video on Howard Storm testifying that Jesus told him in a near death experience that He made other creations besides us. I see no one has responded to that

A demon is well capable of appearing like Jesus. We don't know what Jesus looks like, and so the only physical appearance people can see is what is shown in artists' images of Jesus.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

A demon is well capable of appearing like Jesus. We don't know what Jesus looks like, and so the only physical appearance people can see is what is shown in artists' images of Jesus.

Matthew 11:18-19 "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”

Luke 16:31
"He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

It's amazing when people are clinically proven dead and come back to life against doctor's odds and when they have a testimony or encounter with Jesus people just don't believe it. Truly Amazing.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Matthew 11:18-19 "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”

Luke 16:31
"He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

It's amazing when people are clinically proven dead and come back to life against doctor's odds and when they have a testimony or encounter with Jesus people just don't believe it. Truly Amazing.

What I am responding to is the claim that Jesus told the person that He has a number of creations, which imply that the creation of this universe is not the only one. This is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible, which is God's complete record of everything He has and will say to mankind. Therefore I conclude that the Jesus of the Bible will never tell anyone about multiple creations outside of our universe. Therefore your Scripture quotes are irrelevant. A better Scripture would be: "Believe not every spirit to test the spirits to see whether they are of God." There are quite a number of theories about what happens when a person has a near death experience, and the evidence shows that not every near death experience is one that does not involve a residual image in the brain.

But having said that, one medical expert wrote a message on the upside of a ceiling girder in the medical room. If someone came out of what they said was a near death experience that involved them leaving their bodies, he asked them what was written on the top of the girder. The ones that correctly answered were the ones the researcher acknowledged was having a true near death experience.

the Scripture verses you have quoted are out of their normal context and cannot describe anyone who has doubts about near death experiences, or whether it was the real Jesus or not who has said things, especially things that are spoken that are not mentioned anywhere in Scripture.