Questions for Adventists

[Leaf473]

you're looking at it the wrong way. you must look at it from the Father's point of view. God is looking out for his children by telling them what will hurt them. He is setting boundries of health and well being. What Father would not look out for the well being of His Children. It is God's protection and benefit. Why would you want to be unhealthy? That is how we look at it. It is odd for us to hear evanglicals talk about the "dietary laws" as restrictions because that is not how we look at them. They see it as a burden we see it as a blessing. Thank-you Lord for showing us what will hurt us and what will make us miserable. Thank you for drawing a boundry and a line. that was really helpful. When I hear christian get angry about us following the health guidlines. I think what God do they server that does not care about their health. When they say we are trying to earn our way to heaven, I think what lunacy, God dosn't just want to get us into heaven, he wants a good life for us now. God's Health Care plan is a way we experiance the Goodness of God.

I'm just interested in learning what official SDA doctrine is.

What I'm hearing is, officially, things in Leviticus 11 are not considered commandments for today.

Thanks for your input

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I'm just interested in learning what official SDA doctrine is.

What I'm hearing is, officially, things in Leviticus 11 are not considered commandments for today.

Thanks for your input

That would be a wrong conclusion, if you go to the church and you break them they will call you into question. they teach a higher standard. If you aim for the higher standard you will automatically be covered in the lower standard. It is not like the ten commandments in that it's moral but they will call your adventism into question. Your commitment will be looked at with suspicion

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Let me give you an example of how the health message affects people. I gained weight because of somebody drugging me and when I was in need the church completely ostracize me because of my size. I've been the victim of a crime but because I was unhealthy they assumed it was me that was a problem.

 

[Leaf473]

Let me give you an example of how the health message affects people. I gained weight because of somebody drugging me and when I was in need the church completely ostracize me because of my size. I've been the victim of a crime but because I was unhealthy they assumed it was me that was a problem.

I'm very sad to hear that

 

[Adventist Dissident]

the SDA church was much stricted on the health message when I was younger.

 

[tall73]

I thought these questions were for Adventists, seems a lot of ex Adventists are answering, which is not the same.

We are allowed to post as well. Bob even liked my post about tithing quoted directly from the Adventist web site!

 

[tall73]

Fascinating! I spent some time in a Stone/Campbell Restorationist movement Church. They often go by the name Church of Christ, or Christian Church, or Disciples of Christ. They officially have no Creed. They very much have an unwritten creed

When I briefly attended such a church the pastor admitted as much.

 

[tall73]

Similar to what I just asked a moment ago, is that the same as saying they are part of God's law?

Given the supporting text listed in the fundamental belief is Leviticus 11, yes they are saying it is God's law.

Here is the quote again:

The dietary distinction between clean and unclean meats, based
on Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14, is generally understood and
accepted among Adventists today. Unlike the ceremonial laws of
the Old Testament, which pointed to Christ, or the civil laws, which
governed the theocracy, these health laws were based on natural law
and thus not merely applicable to one age and time.

---

The categories they are speaking of are all God's law, but they see some as still in effect, such as those they would consider "moral" law, and this other category of "natural" law, and those that they would not see as in effect "ceremonial law" or laws they deem were "civil" laws for the nation.

The reason they call this natural law is that they see the clean and unclean laws in Lev. 11 as related to health.

 

[tall73]

I was not aware of this statement. the last time I had a discussion with someone on this topic 2016 so they changed it. wow. That is superising.

ted wilson might be good for something after all

Yes it did change. And while I give credit to the leadership, I think the momentum started when folks became more aware of abortions in Adventist hospitals. I remember Nic Samoljuk for years calling for reform in Adventist forums, books ,etc.

For those wanting a summary of events in the decades you referred to they can consult this article:

Abortion: history of Adventist guidelines

The story of the church's abortion guidelines tells a lot about where we are in relation to abortion and why we're here.

www.ministrymagazine.org

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Yes it did change. And while I give credit to the leadership, I think the momentum started when folks became more aware of abortions in Adventist hospitals. I remember Nic Samoljuk for years calling for reform in Adventist forums, books ,etc.

For those wanting a summary of events in the decades you referred to they can consult this article:

Abortion: history of Adventist guidelines

The story of the church's abortion guidelines tells a lot about where we are in relation to abortion and why we're here.

www.ministrymagazine.org

I remember talking to Martin Weber about this. He was one of the people pushing for a change. Appereantly they got it. or some form of it. The real test of this is what do they do in the hospitals. SDA hospitals used to do abortions, I am wondering if they still do?

 

[tall73]

I'm here because this is an Adventist thread, I am actually an Adventist who believes in the 28 fundamental beliefs.

I was raised around Adventists my whole life and never have I ever heard these words coming from an Adventist. I also have a hard time believing anyone would say I am superior to you because I am vegan. Is your claim that all Adventist say this?

Of course not all Adventists say that. It is a small number that do. However, they can cause some issues in a congregation.

One brother, who was very sincere by the way, and who I enjoyed speaking with, but who lacked discretion in his approach, was causing some difficulty at an evangelistic series I was helping with at a congregation. He would offer those attending the meeting a ride, which would be great. Except he spent the whole time in the car discussing the evils of cheese, when they hadn't even heard about Jesus, or any of the doctrinal topics!

For those who are not aware Adventists may often rent neutral spaces, not using the church name, for their evangelistic meetings, and then after covering some distinctive doctrines will move the meetings to the church. Clearly, captive lectures on cheese are not helping in that endeavor!

 

[Adventist Dissident]

On March 17, 1970, Neal C. Wilson, president of the North American Division, made a statement on abortion that was carried by the Religious News Service. He predicted that when the denomination met at Atlantic City in June it would steer a middle-of-the-road course. He said that while the church would steer away from anything that would encourage promiscuousness, the church "would not feel it our responsibility to promote laws to legalize abortion . . . nor oppose them. . . .

this was very much the view when I was growing up. The church said avoid sex until marriage, at a time when "free love" was the order of the day, but they were silent on abortion for or against.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

SDA double speak

In effect, the church has simultaneously held two positions regarding abortion. The published May 13, 1970, abortion guidelines have presented to Adventist clergy and laity, and to the general public as well, the appearance of a restrictive stance. 52 And the unpublished Interruption of Pregnancy Guide lines have permitted its hospitals a free hand in this economically significant practice. 53

This is the two faced policy of the SDA church. This is what you need to watch out for. The SDA corporation speaks with a forked tounge.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Abortion in Adventism

www.lifeassuranceministries.org

More on sda abortion

 

[Leaf473]

Abortion in Adventism

www.lifeassuranceministries.org

More on sda abortion

Thanks for posting that. An interesting part I found:
"The underlying reason Adventism, which is generally considered to be a Christian denomination, has nevertheless held to a pro-choice policy and has even provided abortions is its view of the nature of man. Adventists believe and teach that humans are body plus breath—the literal breath in their lungs; when the breath ceases, the body dies, just as a light is extinguished when the electricity is turned off. Thus, they teach that humans do not have an immaterial spirit that is separate from the body.

While it is true that many individual Adventists oppose abortion, its persistent presence within Adventism and among Adventists makes sense when one understands what they believe about a fetus."

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I'm not so sure you can rely on Colieen Tinkers view on this matter in this regards. She is a very much anti Adventist and twist things out of their context. That is not a valid conclusion based upon their doctrinal view of humanity. Easily argue the exact opposite position based upon that view. You can also lead to the conclusion that the Orthodox Christian view of the body soul and Spirit leads to the view that the solid is the body at some point later than conception. And therefore abortion should be allowed under those cases up until that point.