Calvinism, Arminianism, or Universal Restoration

[GoldenKingGaze]

Eph 4:8 says nothing about Jesus freeing any souls from hell. Not one vs. says Jesus "got everyone out of hell."
Jesus did not say He would get everyone out of hell.

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

In fact, Jesus said "Not everyone will enter the kingdom of heaven." Then Jesus said "Many [not a few] will say to me in that day, [i.e. Judgement day] Lord, Lord, have we not ...in thy name done many wonderful works? Then Jesus will say, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." When Jesus says "never" He means never not some day by and by. And before any objections, in Jewish thought "kingdom of heaven" and "kingdom of God" are synonymous

Jesus preached to effect in Hell. The lower Earthly regions and on Earth's surface, and many are gifted. He took many who had been captives with Him. In the Nicene Creed, it mentions Jesus descending into Hell. It took effect.

And I ask your view on how many times Jesus' blood can make a sinner's heart clean?

 

[Der Alte]

Jesus preached to effect in Hell. The lower Earthly regions and on Earth's surface, and many are gifted. He took many who had been captives with Him. In the Nicene Creed, it mentions Jesus descending into Hell. It took effect.
And I ask your view on how many times Jesus' blood can make a sinner's heart clean?

I'm not here to play word games answer your own irrelevant question. If you can, respond to what I have posted. The Nicene creed is NOT scripture. No scripture says Jesus preached to effect in hell.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I'm not here to play word games answer your own irrelevant question. If you can, respond to what I have posted. The Nicene creed is NOT scripture. No scripture says Jesus preached to effect in hell.

Then what are the gloomy dungeons Peter wrote of?
When people are set free, they are gifted.
Jesus' blood is necessary for spiritual life.
When a person receives a spiritual gift or authority over unclean spirits, they at that moment, must be honest. It is then up to them to know Master Jesus and follow Him.

The scriptures from Peter and Ephesians are there, and there is Jonah 2. The Nicene Creed shows the early church's summary of the messages of the Gospels and Letters... according to their reads and the Spirit and the traditions from the Apostles that were not written.

The idea Jesus emptied the world below, Jesus spoke of regarding the rich man who from there could see Paradise, Lazarus and Abraham, comes from a testimony by a former atheist who became a Christian during an event when he was stung by a Box Jellyfish, died and returned to life. He experienced Jesus' presence. Otherwise from Jonah 2, I was stuck on, wondering what it meant by, They show themselves no mercy who lift themselves up to lying vanities.

 

[Der Alte]

Then what are the gloomy dungeons Peter wrote of?
When people are set free, they are gifted.
Jesus' blood is necessary for spiritual life.
When a person receives a spiritual gift or authority over unclean spirits, they at that moment, must be honest. It is then up to them to know Master Jesus and follow Him.
The scriptures from Peter and Ephesians are there, and there is Jonah 2. The Nicene Creed shows the early church's summary of the messages of the Gospels and Letters... according to their reads and the Spirit and the traditions from the Apostles that were not written.
The idea Jesus emptied the world below, Jesus spoke of regarding the rich man who from there could see Paradise, Lazarus and Abraham, comes from a testimony by a former atheist who became a Christian during an event when he was stung by a Box Jellyfish, died and returned to life. He experienced Jesus presence.

Sorry I haven't memorized the NT. Tell me what you think and I'll tell you if I think you are correct or not.
The story of the rich man and Lazarus. The rich man although he was dead could experience pain and thirst and Abraham said he could not leave the place he was in.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Sorry I haven't memorized the NT. Tell me what you think and I'll tell you if I think you are correct or not.
The story of the rich man and Lazarus. The rich man although he was dead could experience pain and thirst and Abraham said he could not leave the place he was in.

Luke 16:19-31 NKJV

The Rich Man and Lazarus​

19“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and [h]fared sumptuously every day. 20But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21desiring to be fed with https://biblehub.com/nkjv/luke/16.htm#footnotesthe crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.


24“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’


27“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”

Jesus' death and resurrection dealt with Hades and Paradise, and opened Heaven, which had been closed.

 

[Der Alte]

Luke 16:19-31 NKJV

The Rich Man and Lazarus​

19“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and [h]fared sumptuously every day. 20But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21desiring to be fed with Luke 16 NKJVthe crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
27“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”
Jesus' death and resurrection dealt with Hades and Paradise, and opened Heaven, which had been closed.

I can read that in both English and Greek. It does NOT say "Jesus' death and resurrection dealt with Hades and Paradise, and opened Heaven, which had been closed." It, in fact, says that the rich man in hades i.e. hell, could not leave the place he was in.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I can read that in both English and Greek. It does NOT say "Jesus' death and resurrection dealt with Hades and Paradise, and opened Heaven, which had been closed." It, in fact, says that the rich man in hades i.e. hell, could not leave the place he was in.

I was taught a little theology as a 9 year old school boy, Heaven was closed until after the resurrection. Later I found in scripture that when Adam sinned, the Way to Heaven was closed. Jesus reopened the Way, the veil was torn as Jesus died, and through His blood, the Heavenly utensils were cleaned, and the Way to the Father and the Holy of Holies was made open. Do you want scripture quotes? A lot of those can break up the flow of thoughts though.

The nature of Hades, being blocked, so the rich man could not escape, was made by God and under His power. Obviously Jesus did not have to stay there. Abraham is now in Heaven and the better Paradise, with Lazarus and the rich man.

 

[Der Alte]

I was taught a little theology as a 9 year old school boy, Heaven was closed until after the resurrection. Later I found in scripture that when Adam sinned, the Way to Heaven was closed. Jesus reopened the Way, the veil was torn as Jesus died, and through His blood, the Heavenly utensils were cleaned, and the Way to the Father and the Holy of Holies was made open. Do you want scripture quotes? A lot of those can break up the flow of thoughts though.
The nature of Hades, being blocked, so the rich man could not escape, was made by God and under His power. Obviously Jesus did not have to stay there. Abraham is now in Heaven and the better Paradise, with Lazarus and the rich man.

Jesus quoted Abraham as saying that the rich man in hades, i.e. hell, could not leave the place where he was and go to the place where Abraham was.

Luke 16:25-26
(25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
(26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.​

Also in Matt 7 Jesus said that not everyone would enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 7:21-23
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many [not a few] will say to me in that day, [judgement day]Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

When Jesus says "never" He means never not some day, by and by.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Jesus quoted Abraham as saying that the rich man in hades, i.e. hell, could not leave the place where he was and go to the place where Abraham was.

Luke 16:25-26​

(25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.​

(26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.​

Also in Matt 7 Jesus said that not everyone would enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many [not a few] will say to me in that day, [judgement day]Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

When Jesus says "never" He means never not some day, by and by.

With God all things are possible, like overcoming all of the powers of death, and fixing a gulf created beings cannot pass, or at least souls. The Son did not create a gulf He Himself could not surpass. Not all who cast out Devils work iniquity. Peter took the warning. He needed to have that power, without such power, a preacher can be overcome by witchcraft and lose his place.

 

[Der Alte]

With God all things are possible, like overcoming all of the powers of death, and fixing a gulf created beings cannot pass, or at least souls. The Son did not create a gulf He Himself could not surpass. Not all who cast out Devils work iniquity. Peter took the warning. He needed to have that power, without such power, a preacher can be overcome by witchcraft and lose his place.

OK I see where this is going. What the scripture actually says means nothing, you make up your own narrative about what will happen.. Adios.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Thank you. Sin is taken away from every human, death is defeated, but not all recieve the free gift of eternal life. Who and what prevents that? God, humanity, or both? Is it based on human response?

The key to having Gods grace and gift of eternal life in mans free will to act in faith and believe God for His gift of salvation provided in the gospel. Man can either receive His gift or reject His gift. That is on man and if he rejects it then he will suffer the consequences of that decision for all eternity.