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Woke is Marxism Evolved to Take on the West

Bradskii

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**THE SCIENCE** actually differs. More and better research is always a trump card.

Freund is a pioneering source on this type of research, but also a difficult source to be drawing on as this was an initial exploratory study.

Ray Blanchard, who was trained by Freund and is a major researcher in this area, performed a much larger and more involved study in 2012 (with nearly 2300 participants over nine years, against less than 500 participants over less than 12 months in the 1992 Freund/Wilson study). He found that there was no statistical difference in rates of pedophilic attraction between heterosexuals and homosexuals:

Full study is available online: Sexual Attraction to Others: A Comparison of Two Models of Alloerotic Responding in Men

It's not like Blanchard is some lefty liberal professor either. He's been a consistent ally (sometimes active, sometimes tacit) to various right wing groups with agendas around homosexuality, transsexuality, gender identity dysphoria and even race and eugenics. Even going so far as to write for various hard right/alt right fringe publications. He's the sort of guy that gets quoted by the Family Research Council, VDARE and TERFs.


Then there are other studies that find the opposite to Freund (even using similar calculation methodologies). Jenny et al (1992) found about 1% of child sex abusers were homosexual - although there are issues with that study as well (mostly population size and selection criteria). A follow up study (Jenny et al 1994) found no more than 3% of child sex abusers were homosexual. Again though, there a caveats about data accuracy.


I'll also note there are MANY challenges to the methodology Freund/Wilson used and the conclusions drawn in the paper. A big one is that there is an assumption that adult male on adolescent male sexual abuse and/or arousal means that the perpetrator was homosexual. It's not that clean or simple.

Quoting from the 1993 National Academies Press study 'Understanding Child Abuse and Neglect': "The distinction between homosexual and heterosexual child molesters relies on the premise that male molesters of male victims are homosexual in orientation. Most molesters of boys do not report sexual interest in adult men, however" (National Research Council, 1993, p. 143).

There's also an overlap between male-male and male-female abusers that wasn't covered by Freund. Willis et al (1993) report many offenders offend against both male and female children, defying strict classification on the basis of sexual orientation.

Wilson, one of the two authors of the study, wrote this in response to it being mis-used in such a way.

"These articles have frequently been cited by fundamentalist lobbyists as proof-positive that homosexuals are more inclined to molest children. This was not a finding of our research, period. What we found was that, among men with a sexual preference for children, there was an over-representation of men with a same-sex preference. To reiterate, among men with a sexual preference for children, as diagnosed using Dr. Freund's phallometric test, there was a higher relative incidence of homosexuality. In all other research we conducted, we never found that androphilic (i.e., a preference for male adults) men had any greater relative erotic interest in children than did their gynephilic (i.e., a preference for female adults) peers. Dr. Freund was and would continue to be greatly distressed that any of his research would contribute to the persecution of any group of people.

Humans sexuality, is messy, complicated and defiant of our neat attempts at classification. Simply tarring one group of people in such a way is gross and smacks of bigotry.
Notwithstanding that the person quoting the link has misread the proportions completely incorrectly, the summary specifically finishes with a confirmation of what you posted above (my emphasis):

'This, of course, would not indicate that androphilic males (males being sexually attracted to other males) have a greater propensity to offend against children.'

But hey, why quote the part of the paper that dismantles your prejudice?
 
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Whyayeman

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Did you miss that part? It's the righteous judgement of God. It wasn't my idea.

Where did I say He's wrong? I simply said it wasn't my idea.
You did not say 'God was wrong'. How could you? Of course putting homosexuals to death was not your own idea. You just go along with it.

Frankly, coming from a purported Christian, that is alarming. Have you learned nothing from the Gospels?
 
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gaara4158

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Nope! You said, "This narrative that the gay community is in any way preying on children, especially in an organizational capacity, is entirely fabricated by right-wing organizations preying on your emotions for their own political ends."

Now you change it to right-wing "effort".

Name those alleged "organizations".
This is not a meaningful distinction. Right-wing media and politics is full of hysteria over “grooming” allegedly done by the lgbt community. DeSantis in Florida ran his whole campaign for governor over it, as did Youngkin in Virginia.
 
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Aldebaran

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I cancelled that because someone has to point out that you are posting nonsense. Complete nonsense. And I guarantee you'd keep on repeating it anytime a discussion about gay people came up. You need to be called out on what you post is catastrophically incorrect to the point of absurdity.

Then it sounds like you're trying to make this personal. It couldn't be more obvious.
 
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Aldebaran

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You did not say 'God was wrong.' How could you? Of course putting homosexuals to death was not your own idea. You just go along with it.

Frankly, coming from a purported Christian, that is alarming. Have you learned nothing from the Gospels?

Who said anything about "putting homosexuals to death"?
Once again, the verse says, ""Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die".

Nobody is saying that we're going to put them to death.
 
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Aldebaran

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This is not a meaningful distinction. Right-wing media and politics is full of hysteria over “grooming” allegedly done by the lgbt community. DeSantis in Florida ran his whole campaign for governor over it, as did Youngkin in Virginia.

Good thing they both won. Society obviously agrees with them.
 
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gaara4158

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Good thing they both won. Society obviously agrees with them.
It is unequivocally a bad thing that they won, but it proves my point. Apparently it’s against the rules to suggest that homophobia finds its home in social conservatism. So I’ll just leave it at that.
 
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gaara4158

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Who said anything about "putting homosexuals to death"?
Once again, the verse says, ""Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die".

Nobody is saying that we're going to put them to death.
What would be wrong with putting them to death?
 
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Bradskii

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Nobody is saying that we're going to put them to death.
Well, it's kind of illegal to do that where we both live. Not everywhere of course. Yet you've quoted biblical verses that say that they deserve to die. And you don't disagree with that.

And you still haven't corrected your nonsensical misreading of the medical paper to which you linked.
 
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Aldebaran

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Well, it's kind of illegal to do that where we both live. Not everywhere of course. Yet you've quoted biblical verses that say that they deserve to die. And you don't disagree with that.

What is said in scripture to be deserved isn't a commandment for us to carry out. It simply points out the condition that those people are in so they can see their need to change. The verse speaks against those who not only do the things that makes them deserving of death, but also give their approval to others who do the same things. The "pride" movement is a manifestation of that.

And you still haven't corrected your nonsensical misreading of the medical paper to which you linked.

Why would I "correct" what I agree with? If you don't agree with the article, it's up to you to do the correcting.
 
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Bradskii

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What is said in scripture to be deserved isn't a commandment for us to carry out.
Nobody said you wanted to kill anyone. But you agree with the bible when it says they deserve death. This couldn't be clearer.
Why would I "correct" what I agree with? If you don't agree with the article, it's up to you to do the correcting.
You quoted a fact from the paper which you misread. I see this so often. Something is cherry picked, misinterpreted, misread or confused and it then becomes a fact. You link to a paper that says one thing trying to prove a point and It says something completely different.

What hope is there of you grasping anything factual that anyone else posts with which you disagree if you can't even understand what you yourself post?
 
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Aldebaran

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Nobody said you wanted to kill anyone. But you agree with the bible when it says they deserve death. This couldn't be clearer.

Is it a problem for you if I agree with scripture?

You quoted a fact from the paper which you misread. I see this so often. Something is cherry picked, misinterpreted, misread or confused and it then becomes a fact. You link to a paper that says one thing trying to prove a point and It says something completely different.

What hope is there of you grasping anything factual that anyone else posts with which you disagree if you can't even understand what you yourself post?

If I say something you believe is in error, you're free to offer up a counter-argument to it. But simply complaining that I said something you don't agree with is not constructive.
 
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Bradskii

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Is it a problem for you if I agree with scripture?
If it says that gay people deserve death, then yes.
If I say something you believe is in error, you're free to offer up a counter-argument to it. But simply complaining that I said something you don't agree with is not constructive.
It's an error in fact. It's not that I simply disagree with what you said, it's what you said was plainly and factually and obviously wrong. You seem determined not to make any attempt to investigate it and correct it, even though you've been told a few times that you were wrong. My guess would be that what you said seems so patently true to you that you can't see it as being so obviously wrong.
 
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Aldebaran

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Aldebaran

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If it says that gay people deserve death, then yes.

Regardless of what you or I agree with, it says what it says.

It's an error in fact. It's not that I simply disagree with what you said, it's what you said was plainly and factually and obviously wrong. You seem determined not to make any attempt to investigate it and correct it, even though you've been told a few times that you were wrong. My guess would be that what you said seems so patently true to you that you can't see it as being so obviously wrong.

If your claim is so factual, you'd be able to point it out to me. If your claim is provable, you'd have done so already.
 
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gaara4158

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The scripture is one way. What's the other?
You want to agree with the Bible, but you don’t want to agree that gay people deserve to be killed. You can’t agree with the Bible without saying that. So say it.
 
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Bradskii

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Regardless of what you or I agree with, it says what it says.
I don't agree with it. And neither do other Christians. It's a monstrously evil thing to say. The point is that you agree with it.
If your claim is so factual, you'd be able to point it out to me. If your claim is provable, you'd have done so already.
You said regarding paedophilia that homosexuals outnumber heterosexuals by a factor of 11. As I said, you are so blinded by your bias that that figure seemed entirely appropriate to you. You had it completely the wrong way around. How about you go back and re-read your own link.
 
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perplexed

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in the article Aldebaran does not understand two ratios are discussed.
the ratio of gynephiles to androphiles among the general population is approximately 20:1.
So for example if you have , say , 21 million people , you expect to have 1 million androphiles

the ratio of heterosexual to homosexual pedophiles was calculated to be approximately 11:1
So for example if you have , say, 12000 paedphiles then you expect 1000 homosexuals
 
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Aldebaran

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You want to agree with the Bible, but you don’t want to agree that gay people deserve to be killed. You can’t agree with the Bible without saying that. So say it.
I agree with what the Bible says. :)
 
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