• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

The scarlet beast is....

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
29,893
3,551
Non-dispensationalist
✟407,330.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Scripture also never says anything about Satan disguising himself inside a golden image as the Abomination of desolation. That "abomination of desolation" was interpreted by Luke 21:20 as "Jerusalem surrounded by armies".
The term abomination of desolation is not mentioned in Luke 21. It is in Mark 13:14, however. After the gospel has been "published" among all nations - like in the kjv - in Mark 13:10.

Luke 21, Mark 13, Matthew 24 - all have the days leading up to the 70 ad event. And also the end times 70th week events, yet to come, but near.

Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

The abomination of desolation is in Matthew 24. The abomination of desolation does not take place until the time of the end, Daniel 12. And until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled - running from the 70 AD event until 1967.

The abomination of desolation standing in the holy place (the temple mount) is going impact the whole world.
 
Upvote 0

3 Resurrections

That's 666 YEARS, folks
Aug 21, 2021
1,924
306
Taylors
✟100,448.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
The two will be standing on the temple mount when Jesus casts them into the lake of fire.
That wasn't two individual men. The Land Beast was the religious Jewish leadership system with its two-horned Sadducee and Pharisee power structure that spoke lies just like the Dragon. These were held inside Jerusalem by the Zealots in the AD 66-70 period. A few escaped to the Romans when Titus arrived, but the rest died in Jerusalem's Lake of Fire conditions or at the hand of the Zealots who hated them for having collaborated with Rome.

The Scarlet Beast of the newly-revived independent kingdom of Israel held control over the city from AD 66 until AD 70. This Scarlet Beast kingdom with its competing Zealot leaders also died when Rome finally flattened the city to the ground and it went up in flames. The Zealot armies were destroyed and their leaders either killed or taken to be paraded in the Roman triumph.
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

That scene takes place when Jesus returns to this earth and has just cast the beast and the false prophet - who will be in power when the dragon is worshiped, Revelation 13 - into the lake of fire.
You are presuming that the storyline in Revelation 19 continues to unfold chronologically in Revelation 20 with Satan's binding by the mighty angel (which I agree was probably Michael). It doesn't do that. That isn't the way John writes Revelation. He uses a repetitious pattern of recapitulation - not one long consecutive sequence of events from Revelation 1 to Revelation 22.

John tells the story of this end of the age first in Revelation 19 from the perspective of the Scarlet Beast and the Land Beast's final fate in Jerusalem's Lake of Fire. Then he switches in Revelation 20:1 into a flashback that tells how Satan's side of that story went. Satan after his ancient binding back in Solomon's days by the mighty angel would continue to have his deception of the nations bound until Christ's resurrection (the "First resurrection" in Revelation 20:5) when he was loosed on earth to deceive the nations once more for that "short time". Satan's "short time" and "little season" of deceiving the nations would then finish by being thrown into Jerusalem's Lake of Fire conditions from AD 66-70 where the Jewish religious leadership and the Zealot-led kingdom of Israel were also holed up (the Land Beast and the Scarlet Beast). That is where Satan met his death also, along with his entire realm of demonic forces.
The term abomination of desolation is not mentioned in Luke 21. It is in Mark 13:14, however. After the gospel has been "published" among all nations - like in the kjv - in Mark 13:10.
Luke is quoting the very same sentence that Christ uttered when speaking about the abomination of desolation. According to Luke, when the disciples saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies they were to flee Judea and head to the mountains. In Mark and Matthew's accounts of this same statement, when the disciples saw the abomination of desolation, they were to flee Judea and head to the mountains. Luke interprets for us what the abomination of desolation was. We don't need to guess.

Even Daniel 9:27 says that "with the abominable armies he shall make it desolate", speaking of the city and the sanctuary of Jerusalem.

The gospel truly was published among all the nations in those first-century days before "the end of all things" which Peter said was "at hand" in his days (1 Peter 4:7). Paul testified of this accomplished level of evangelistic coverage of all the nations on more than one occasion in his epistles. I believe Paul wrote the truth on that point for that first-century generation.
The abomination of desolation is in Matthew 24. The abomination of desolation does not take place until the time of the end, Daniel 12. And until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled - running from the 70 AD event until 1967.
The "times (plural) of the Gentiles" were the "time, times, and half a time" of Daniel 12:7 a.k.a. the 42 months that the Gentiles would tread Jerusalem underfoot (Revelation 11:2). It was 42 literal months of the Zealot factions battling each other in Jerusalem from late AD 66 until early AD 70 that tore the city's resources and inhabitants to pieces between them. Civil war was the main cause for weakening Jerusalem enough so that she fell to the Romans. It was the different Zealot factions which all originated in "Galilee of the Gentiles" which created this internecine strife. This WAS the "time of the end" for Daniel's "holy people", because, as I just mentioned above, Peter wrote that "the end of all things is at hand" in his own days.

The way you describe this time period as running from AD 70 until 1967 sounds like a TIME of the Gentiles - not the plural "TIMES" which scripture mentions. And in no way does your time period equal the literal 42 months timespan when the city and the sanctuary of Jerusalem was being trodden underfoot in Revelation 11:2.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
29,893
3,551
Non-dispensationalist
✟407,330.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
That wasn't two individual men. The Land Beast was the religious Jewish leadership system with its two-horned Sadducee and Pharisee power structure that spoke lies just like the Dragon.
Please use the terms that are in Revelation. It is not "Land" beast, but the beast out of the earth. The beast out of the earth is an individual, later identified in Revelation 19:20 as the false prophet.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


The false prophet is also in Revelation 16:13.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

The dragon is Satan.
The beast is the out of the sea king 8.
The
false prophet is beast out of the earth.
 
Upvote 0

3 Resurrections

That's 666 YEARS, folks
Aug 21, 2021
1,924
306
Taylors
✟100,448.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Please use the terms that are in Revelation. It is not "Land" beast, but the beast out of the earth. The beast out of the earth is an individual, later identified in Revelation 19:20 as the false prophet.
The earth IS the land - tes ges - which refers to the land of Israel. In Revelation, John often uses "earth" and "sea" as metaphors for the "land" of Israel and for the Gentile nations across the Mediterranean Sea respectively.

The Jewish religious leadership was referred to as the "False Prophet" in Revelation 13 not because they were a single individual, but because they were liars who prophesied deceit, just like their father the Devil as Christ accused the scribes and Pharisees.

Beasts represent kingdoms in both Daniel and Revelation. The two-horned Land Beast (or the "Beast from the earth") represented the spiritual kingdom of the land of Israel. The Pharisees and Sadducees who led the Sanhedrin and spoke lies like the Dragon had a comparatively minor military force of captains of the temple at their command who participated in arresting Christ, for example (compared to the greater number of 10 horns on the Sea Beast and the 10 horns on the Scarlet Beast).
The beast is the out of the sea king 8.
No, the 8th king of the earth / high priest was also a dual identity as the revived Scarlet Beast - not the other Sea Beast.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
29,893
3,551
Non-dispensationalist
✟407,330.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
No, the 8th king of the earth / high priest was also a dual identity as the revived Scarlet Beast - not the other Sea Beast.
The 8 kings are kings of the Roman Empire. The Julio-Claudian bloodline.

Five fallen
head 1. Julius Caesar
head 2. Augustus
head 3. Tiberius
head 4. Caligula
head 5. Claudius

One is (at the time of John)
head 6 Nero

One yet to come, who must continue a short space
head 7 the end times little horn person

the beast
king 8 the mortally wounded/healed head on the beast out of the sea, Revelation 13
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
29,893
3,551
Non-dispensationalist
✟407,330.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The Jewish religious leadership was referred to as the "False Prophet" in Revelation 13 not because they were a single individual, but because they were liars who prophesied deceit, just like their father the Devil as Christ accused the scribes and Pharisees.
The false prophet, not false prophets plural, will be one person.

The false prophet will perform the deceptive miracle of giving life to the image of the beast.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
 
Upvote 0

grafted branch

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 21, 2019
1,540
252
48
Washington
✟284,828.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Christ had predicted in Matthew 12:43-45 that same seven-fold explosion of demonic possession for that generation in its "last state", which would be worse than its "first state" when He was among them casting out devils. And this explosion of demonic possession in Israel became true during the years of AD 66-70, most specifically in the city of Jerusalem itself.
I tend to agree with you on this being possible but what historical evidence would support the AD 66-70 “last state” of demonic possession?
 
Upvote 0

3 Resurrections

That's 666 YEARS, folks
Aug 21, 2021
1,924
306
Taylors
✟100,448.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
The 8 kings are kings of the Roman Empire. The Julio-Claudian bloodline.
That is not possible for the Scarlet Beast in Rev. 17. The 8 "kings" cannot possibly be the kings of the Roman Empire. Instead, the Roman emperors were part of the other Roman Sea Beast in Rev. 13. The Scarlet Beast had the Harlot Mystery Babylon riding in a dominant position on its back - which harlot was "that great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth". This harlot was Old Jerusalem whom Christ accused of being guilty of the shed blood of the prophets and saints. Old Jerusalem was NOT "reigning over" the kings of the Roman Empire. Instead, Old Jerusalem was then reigning over the high priest "kings of the earth" in John's days.

Rome-controlled Jerusalem in those first-century days reigning over the high priesthood "kings of the earth" was an upside-down situation, totally contrary to the way God decreed for the priest's "thrones of judgment" used in Jerusalem to pass sentences concerning the tribes (Deut. 17:8-12). In John's days, Rome had been appointing the high priest who could serve - and removing them also at will. Also, the high priest's vestments were being stored by Rome in the Antonia Fortress instead of the Temple, as had been customary under OC law. Rome-controlled Jerusalem doled out those high priest vestments for the feast days at their own discretion. This was a humiliating situation for the Temple. The high priests were supposed to be in control from Jerusalem of passing judgments and making judicial decisions over the tribes - not the other way around. We see an example of this upside-down state of affairs at Christ's trial; the Jewish leadership had to defer to Pilate's decision to render a crucifixion command. They could not pass a death sentence themselves.

Rome-controlled Jerusalem was definitely "reigning over" the high priest "kings of the earth" in those first-century days in which John lived. By acting in collusion with Rome ("we have no king but Caesar"), the Jewish religious leadership and its high priesthood was acting traitorously towards their own people. This is how they earned that great hatred of the Scarlet Beast's 10 horns who so hated the harlot that they couldn't wait to devour her and burn her flesh with fire (Rev. 17:16). Again, this was evidence of CIVIL WAR within this Scarlet Beast. And as Christ once said, a kingdom divided against itself cannot possibly stand, but must come to nothing - which the Scarlet Beast soon did in AD 70.
Five fallen
head 1. Julius Caesar
head 2. Augustus
head 3. Tiberius
head 4. Caligula
head 5. Claudius

One is (at the time of John)
head 6 Nero

One yet to come, who must continue a short space
head 7 the end times little horn person

the beast
king 8 the mortally wounded/healed head on the beast out of the sea, Revelation 13
This list you have given above is not possible for the reasons I stated above. Instead...


The "kings of the earth" as as the high priests of the house of Annas

Five fallen in death
Annas
Eleazar ben Annas
Joseph Caiaphas - son in law to Annas
Jonathan ben Annas
Matthias ben Annas

One is (former high priest of Annas' sons - still living at the time of John)
Theophilus ben Annas (whom Luke addressed in Acts 1 and Luke 1)

One yet to come, who must continue a short space
Ananus ben Annas (appointed and then deposed 3 months later in AD 63, prior to John writing Revelation in AD 59/60

the Scarlet Beast of Revelation 17 - ("about to arise" to existence once more in John's days after his writing Revelation in AD 59/60)
Mattathias ben Theophilus, (the 8th high priest "king" OF the family of seven former high priests and Annas's grandson, appointed in AD 65 and serving until AD 66 when he also became the titular high priest head of the newly-revived Scarlet Beast - an independent kingdom of Israel in existence once more)
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
This "speaking" by the image is no more literal speech than the blood of dead Abel "crying unto God from the ground", and Abel as "He being dead yet speaketh" - just not literally with vocal cords. To "give life unto the image of the beast" was not to create a walking, breathing image depicting the Sea Beast. This "giving life" to the image belonging to the Sea Beast was for the priesthood to convince the people to create that abominable copy of the Tyrian shekel minted in Jerusalem with its forbidden images giving homage to Rome's demi-gods and to the power of Rome itself as being part of that Sea Beast.

The Land Beast (beast from the earth / False prophet) was the religious Jewish leadership who had the power to cast Jewish citizens out of the synagogue and put them under a ban if the people did not submit to their collusion with Rome which gave homage to the Sea Beast via the Tyrian shekel. This ban could literally kill people, since no one under this ban could have their livelihood supported or have fellowship with others in Israel. This created that "fear of the Jews" which was even felt by those believing chief rulers of the Sanhedrin who feared to openly confess Christ (examples in John 9:22, John 12:42).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

3 Resurrections

That's 666 YEARS, folks
Aug 21, 2021
1,924
306
Taylors
✟100,448.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I tend to agree with you on this being possible but what historical evidence would support the AD 66-70 “last state” of demonic possession?
Josephus gives plenty of information on the suicidal actions of the Zealots who warred against their own people if any were suspected of sympathizing with Rome - or even if any citizen just had wealth which the Zealot leaders each coveted to support their fanatical devotion to their anti-Roman cause. These competing Zealot leaders were so suspicious of each other's attempts at becoming the coveted Messiah over Israel that they were willing to burn up their own grain supplies in Jerusalem which could have kept the people in Jerusalem (including themselves) alive for many years, and able to resist the Roman siege of their city in AD 70. Instead, the Zealot factions preferred to burn up all the reserved grain and provisions to keep those supplies from being taken by their Zealot leader opponents (Wars 5:1.4.24-26).

This was just plain suicidal thinking - typical of demon-possessed individuals in scripture. And to war against their own people only served to weaken themselves sufficiently for Rome to conquer them. Titus knew this was his best battle campaign, and he used their suicidal activities to his own advantage. By "eating their own", the demon-possessed Zealots became their own worst enemy. That example Josephus mentioned of the woman eating her own baby during the Roman phase of the siege in AD 70 would be another example of someone whose natural maternal impulses had been taken over by demonic possession, I should think.

Scripture prophecies in several places predicted these CIVIL WAR conditions that would take place in Israel during those "latter days" of Israel when Gog (Israel) would do sword battle with their own brothers (Ezekiel 38:21). Christ predicted this steadily-increasing family division in Israel from that point onward in His earthly ministry (Luke 12:51-53). Christ also predicted that the disciples of that generation would be put to death by those of their own families (Mark 13:12-13). When those natural family ties became so disrupted that they were willing to murder their close kin, this was a sign of demonic possession again, I should think. Satan being "a murderer from the beginning", the eagerness of the Israelites to kill even their own family members in those days if they showed a willingness to return to Roman control showed the signs of demon-possession operating in full swing.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
29,893
3,551
Non-dispensationalist
✟407,330.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
That is not possible for the Scarlet Beast in Rev. 17. The 8 "kings" cannot possibly be the kings of the Roman Empire. Instead, the Roman emperors were part of the other Roman Sea Beast in Rev. 13.
6 of the 8 kings were of the ancient Roman Empire at the time of John 1st century, the Scarlet colored beast in Revelation 17.

king 7 who becomes king 8 is end times of the end times Roman Empire - the EU, the composite beast in Revelation 13.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
29,893
3,551
Non-dispensationalist
✟407,330.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
This "speaking" by the image is no more literal speech than the blood of dead Abel "crying unto God from the ground", and Abel as "He being dead yet speaketh" - just not literally with vocal cords.
No, it is literal. Satan will be incarnating the statue image of the beast, speaking through it.

In Revelation 16:13, Satan, the dragon, speaking through the image, and the beast, and the false prophet convince the kings of the earth to gather their armies at Armageddon to make war on Jesus, in order to stop him from executing judgment on them.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
 
Upvote 0

3 Resurrections

That's 666 YEARS, folks
Aug 21, 2021
1,924
306
Taylors
✟100,448.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
No, it is literal. Satan will be incarnating the statue image of the beast, speaking through it.
The majority of the translations for Revelation 13:14 say that the Beast from the earth would say to those dwelling on the earth to make an image TO or FOR the Beast. This is not an image made in the form of the Beast's figure, but an image made to give homage to the Sea Beast. And there is nothing in scripture dictating that this image must be a statue. That is an assumption.

Even if you decide to go with the translations saying "the image OF the Beast, this is not necessarily an image made in the likeness of the Sea Beast. All it needs to mean is that the image belongs to the Sea Beast and is connected with it in some fashion. And scripture never says that Satan will incarnate this image. That adds to the account found in Revelation 13.
6 of the 8 kings were of the ancient Roman Empire at the time of John 1st century, the Scarlet colored beast in Revelation 17.
Don't you realize what this statement of yours would mean? If the first 6 "kings" on the Rev. 17 Scarlet Beast were ancient Roman emperors and the 7th and 8th "king" were going to be connected with the EU today, then the Harlot Mystery Babylon which was Old Jerusalem reigning over those "kings of the earth" would mean that Old Jerusalem ruled over the ancient Roman emperors and over the EU in our future. Sorry, but this idea is twisted like a pretzel.
 
Upvote 0

Veni

Active Member
Jul 6, 2022
106
13
38
Kuala Lumpur
✟27,840.00
Country
Malaysia
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Veni, you are making it look like I wrote...

Douggg said: The Scarlet beast of Revelation 17 is "SEXUAL FANTASY" (fill in the blank)

Please, go back edit your post and remove "SEXUAL FANTASY" in you quote of me.

-------------------------------------

I was asking for other people's opinion of who the Scarlet beast of Revelation 17 is.

If your opinion is that the Scarlet beast of Revelation is Sexual Fantasy, make it clear that is your opinion and not mine.
Oops! wrong beast
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
29,893
3,551
Non-dispensationalist
✟407,330.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Even if you decide to go with the translations saying "the image OF the Beast, this is not necessarily an image made in the likeness of the Sea Beast. All it needs to mean is that the image belongs to the Sea Beast and is connected with it in some fashion. And scripture never says that Satan will incarnate this image. That adds to the account found in Revelation 13.
3 Resurrections, you are getting some things mixed up.

The beast out of the sea - with the 7 heads and 10 horns - is the kingdom, not the person.
The mortally wound/but healed head - is the person (called the beast as well).

So the image will be made of the beast person.

That image will be the abomination of desolation. Daniel 11:31, based on what we know from history regarding Antiochus IV, prefigures what the abomination of desolation will be. Antiochus IV set up a statue image of Zeus in the temple. From that, we can be assured that the image will be a statue made in the likeness of the beast person.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
29,893
3,551
Non-dispensationalist
✟407,330.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Don't you realize what this statement of yours would mean? If the first 6 "kings" on the Rev. 17 Scarlet Beast were ancient Roman emperors and the 7th and 8th "king" were going to be connected with the EU today, then the Harlot Mystery Babylon which was Old Jerusalem reigning over those "kings of the earth" would mean that Old Jerusalem ruled over the ancient Roman emperors and over the EU in our future. Sorry, but this idea is twisted like a pretzel.
You are making stuff up contrary to what I wrote.

Mystery, Babylon the Great is not Old Jerusalem. Mystery, Babylon the Great is the mystical (i.e. non-physical) kingdom of Satan and his angels.


Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
 
Upvote 0

BillCody

Active Member
Jun 25, 2022
84
23
65
Charlotte
✟60,898.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Revelation 17 tells you that it is a person that died in the past and is in hell. Someone from one of the heads of the beast. That comes from the Abyss to possess the body of the antichrist when he dies. So that it appears to be a resurrection of the antichrist when he dies. And whole world will wonder after him because of it. That the eighth head is actually one of the seven. So he reigns on the world twice.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
29,893
3,551
Non-dispensationalist
✟407,330.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Revelation 17 tells you that it is a person that died in the past and is in hell. Someone from one of the heads of the beast. That comes from the Abyss to possess the body of the antichrist when he dies. So that it appears to be a resurrection of the antichrist when he dies. And whole world will wonder after him because of it. That the eighth head is actually one of the seven. So he reigns on the world twice.
Bill, there are three different lines of reasoning regarding who of the seven kings will become the eighth king.

1. some like @Jerryhuerta think that because the sixth king was ruling at the time of John, then the sixth king could not be in the bottomless pit. And king seven was still yet to come, so he could not be in the bottomless pit either.

So it must be one of the five fallen kings - who was and is not in Revelation 17:8 who is in the bottomless pit. And therefore, it is one of the five fallen kings who will become the beast king - king eight.

2. the second view is that it is Satan who is in the bottomless pit, which does not make much sense since Satan currently goes about as a roaring lion seeking who he might devour.

3. the third view is my view that the entity in the bottomless pit is not a king at all, but a literal beast used by Satan, which Satan spoke through to get man to sin, Which was the garden of Eden serpent beast.

And of the seven kings, it will be king 7 who becomes the so-called beast king - king 8. Because it says when king 7 comes, he must "continue" a short space. The short space being the 42 months in Revelation 13:5 that the beast king rules. It actually says "to continue" 42 months in verse 5.

King 7 will be the mortally wounded/but healed head on the beast kingdom coming out of the sea. There is no mortally wounded/but healed head in Revelation 17, nor Revelation 12. So it must happen right before the 42 months begin.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

3 Resurrections

That's 666 YEARS, folks
Aug 21, 2021
1,924
306
Taylors
✟100,448.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
The beast out of the sea - with the 7 heads and 10 horns - is the kingdom, not the person.
Agreed.
The mortally wound/but healed head - is the person (called the beast as well).
The deadly healed wound, as you have said above, was to one of the 7 heads - not to one of the 10 horns (which I believe you agree that at least 6 of them were the ancient Roman emperors).

Heads on the Revelation 17 Scarlet Beast were interpreted by the angel as being 7 literal mountains which the (Judean) Scarlet Beast sat upon. With this other Rev. 13 Sea Beast, I believe that would also be the case of its 7 heads being interpreted as 7 literal mountains which the city of Rome sat upon. The "seven-hilled city of Rome" is a common title for the city from antiquity. The "deadly wound" would then have had to be inflicted upon a literal mountain in Rome - not a wound given to a person. And I believe that deadly wound was given to Nero's imperial Palatine Hill district during the AD 64 fire at Rome.

This "deadly wound" to Nero's imperial hill zone in Rome was "healed" by Nero's lavish renovation program that created his famous "Golden House" villa complex with surrounding gardens, topped off by Nero's 100' tall bronze statue of himself at the entrance of the palace, portrayed as the sun god. So if you really want to identify the "image" of the Sea Beast as a statue, why don't you go with that 100' tall Colossus of Nero instead? Nero's statue of himself really was an image that represented the then-current Roman phase of the Sea Beast.
You are making stuff up contrary to what I wrote.

Mystery, Babylon the Great is not Old Jerusalem. Mystery, Babylon the Great is the mystical (i.e. non-physical) kingdom of Satan and his angels.
Douggg, I didn't remember reading what your interpretation of who the Harlot Mystery Babylon was. "Mystery Babylon", "that great city" was said in Rev. 17:6 and Rev. 18:24 to be guilty of the blood of the prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. But Jesus already told people while He was on earth just who was guilty of the shed blood of the prophets and saints from Abel forward, and that was the disobedient city of Old Jerusalem. He wept over Jerusalem in that Matthew 23:34-38 passage, as He pronounced Jerusalem's past, present, and future guilt for killing the prophets, saints, and Christ's disciples, and the city's coming fate in judgment for all that shed blood.

The Harlot Mystery Babylon, faithless to her covenant relationship with her God (Isaiah 1:21), and drunk with the blood of the prophets and saints and of all the martyrs of Jesus, was "that great city" of Old Jerusalem. She had "filled up" the measure of the fathers by killing and persecuting the disciples and Apostles of the early church. God's wrath came upon her to the uttermost in the AD 66-70 period.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
29,893
3,551
Non-dispensationalist
✟407,330.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
So if you really want to identify the "image" of the Sea Beast as a statue, why don't you go with that 100' tall Colossus of Nero instead? Nero's statue of himself really was an image that represented the then-current Roman phase of the Sea Beast.
Again, you are creating confusing by not using the terms used in Revelation - i.e your "Sea Beast" term is misleading.

The image is not of the beast out of the sea - as you inferred above. The image is of the mortally wounded/but healed head.

So please stop saying "Sea Beast". And also stop saying image of the Sea Beast. The beast out of the sea - represents a kingdom.

In Revelation 13, the beast out of the sea - is the kingdom of the EU, the Roman Empire in the end times.

The beast person will be the mortally wounded/but healed head.
 
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,490
1,046
Colorado
✟438,188.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
In Revelation 13, the beast out of the sea - is the kingdom of the EU, the Roman Empire in the end times.

As usual these type of inaccurate theories, it is based on men's assumptions. And as I have said, "Assumption is the mother of all errors!"

The Beast is simply a synonym pointing to Satan's carnal kingdom or rule. The beast (the body making up unsaved people) has no power to reason, no intelligent comprehension or judgment. They live off the flesh carnal! The term (whether of kingdoms of men, individuals, or congregations) is used to signify man under the power of Satan, forsaking God and incapable of good.
Ecclesiastes 3:18
  • "I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts."
If man were to look at himself honestly, he would see that there is no good in him, he is just like the beasts of the earth, carnal, controlled by his own flesh in will and want. This is a carnal kingdom coming out of wicked men (sea) under the influence of Satan. Not Roman Empire, EU, Common Market, NATO nonsense!

And the symbol of the second beast with two horns like a lamb is to show these are unsaved false prophets Satan brings up into the Lord's house and creates an abomination that will leave it desolate, forcing unfaithful people to worship the first beast above. Just as it did Israel, leaving not one stone upon another not thrown down.

The beast person will be the mortally wounded/but healed head.

Seriously? No such thing as "beast person." That is not God's definition in Scripture.

No...again... the beast with seven heads and ten horns is a "FIGURE" illustrating Satan's carnal kingdom throughout time. Seven is the number of the COMPLETION of his reign. The heads are symbolic of his AUTHORITY. The crowns on his heads are symbolic of his rules. The horns are symbolic of his power (not man, mind you!).

This can be easily proven, as if you note, in Revelation chapter 17 God clearly tells us that the seven heads were Kingdoms (mountains) with 7 kings, and at the time of the writing of Revelation, 5 of the 7 were already fallen. "CLEARLY" is an ongoing carnal reign of Satan's kingdom, a figure illustrating its start through to its completion (the number 7). After the final Kingdom rules, that will be the end. That is why the 8th, is "of" the 7. It's part of the complete package.

As for the head wounded unto death, Christ inflicted this, not at the time of the latter end, but at the cross. He went forth on his white Horse with a drawn sword, and he went forth conquering and to conquer. Satan was defeated so that the salvation will come to the world. But will be again loosed (deadly wound healed) that he will again have authority (head) over the nations to bring them against the saints.

Psalms 68:20
  • "He that is our God is the God of salvation; and unto GOD the Lord belong the issues from death.
  • But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.
  • The Lord said, I will bring again from Bashan, I will bring my people again from the depths of the sea:"
The sea is a synonym for the pit of Hell which the world finds itself in. Thus we are fishers of men. Satan's army is defeated by the messengers of Christ (Revelation 12), his head took a wound means his authority is taken away (Luke 10:17-19) at lease for a thousand years (fullness of time until he building of the church is finished and the testimony of two witnesses is finished). That head wound (which limited Satan's authority), will be healed when he is loosed.

Sorry, this has nothing to do with your doctrine of evil superman being the horn, "beast-person", etc. It's just a speculation, and not biblical sound.
 
Upvote 0