Do we always see?

[dlamberth]

Not in Buddhist cosmology

In Buddhist cosmology, if not animals, then what are Human Being?

 

[JohnEmmett]

In Buddhist cosmology, if not animals, then what are Human Being?

Human beings (manussa loka)

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/

 

[Mountainmike]

Near death is not death. When a candle goes out the flame doesn't continue because the processes that constitute the flame cease. So it is with consciousness.

cells enter a dormant non functioning “ pilot light “ state. Capable of “relighting “ but only if quickly enough ,

In many of the cases after cardiac arrest , and other cases too, there is no functioning cortex left , so it is not possible to explain consciousness as a chemical process.

Consciousness of people, things and places , that are verifiable and also verifiable the person cannot have experienced them with sensory proximity, and certainly not with a dormant non functioning cortex.

There are hundreds of such cases. Books full of them. it is no longer tenable to presume consciousness as a process of the brain. The brain is filtering comsciousness not originating it.

 

[dlamberth]

Human beings (manussa loka)

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/

Thanks. But what I see in the link is evolution of consciousness. And personally in the end I believe that's what's truly evolving in various life forms. In the same breath, I see nothing in the article that points towards our physical bodies as not animals. But animals with the potential of an even higher developed consciousness than the other life forms around us and even what most experience now.

 

[JohnEmmett]

I see nothing in the article that points towards our physical bodies as not animals.

ghosts are nearer to the animal realm

 

[dlamberth]

ghosts are nearer to the animal realm

Do ghosts have physical bodies? That's the animal aspect of Human Beings.

 

[JohnEmmett]

Do ghosts have physical bodies?

they can disappear whenever it may please them

 

[GenemZ]

I've thought about it a bit, I understand that when you die, it just turns black, but consciousness itself takes some time to create, if it's not already there, then every person who is born, animal, and plants are descendants of this consciousness, it is not created new every time, you are only born with a body and a consciousness, and then you live life on this planet thanks to this life force that gives us life, the soul ours is not from genes either, people have been researching genes for several decades already, and have not found a single gene linked to consciousness, so there is another way in which it is transmitted, they say that nature lives, believe you there is some kind of, life force out there, in nature, from which we all originate? Have also noticed that when cats die, it looks like they are thinking of a place, that life is not final then, maybe at first I thought it was a way to get rid of the fear of dying, something you create yourself then, but it doesn't really look like that, does it?

Genes for consciousness only relate to the link between a soul and what a body is informing that soul about while in the material world.

For some people have had out of body experiences on the operating table. Their soul was floating above their dead body, and very much CONSCIOUS of what took place while the doctors were scrambling to do to resuscitate that body.

The soul has its own consciousness. Even without a body.


When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been." Revelation 6:9-11

Those souls were fully conscious of what had happened to them while on earth.


In Christ...............

 

[RileyG]

From an atheist perspective, it doesn't "turn black." It turns into nothing. From a Christian perspective, we remain conscious after we die, whether we are with God or are separated from him.

 

[AV1611VET]

Do ghosts have physical bodies?

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

 

[RileyG]

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Amen. Really makes you think

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Genes for consciousness only relate to the link between a soul and what a body is informing that soul about while in the material world.

For some people have had out of body experiences on the operating table. Their soul was floating above their dead body, and very much CONSCIOUS of what took place while the doctors were scrambling to do to resuscitate that body.

The soul has its own consciousness. Even without a body.

There was a fairly lengthy experiment done by an operating room doctor, not really controlled, but simple. He placed a card with a shape or a symbol on top of the OR light they use during surgery or sometimes on top of some cabinets that would only be visible to someone who was looking down from above. He changed them out periodically and never told anyone else about them, not even his staff. Over the course of several years and hundreds of operations done he even had several patients report NDEs. No one, Not one, ever correctly identified the symbols on any card or even revealed that they had seen a card at all.

The brain is a funny thing. It likes to reconstruct and fill in gaps in its experience. So, a vague consciousness of doctors talking and working to resuscitate a patient gets reconstructed as looking down on themselves and the doctors. At first it's really simple, but over times the details get filled in.

 

[GenemZ]

There was a fairly lengthy experiment done by an operating room doctor, not really controlled, but simple. He placed a card with a shape or a symbol on top of the OR light they use during surgery or sometimes on top of some cabinets that would only be visible to someone who was looking down from above. He changed them out periodically and never told anyone else about them, not even his staff. Over the course of several years and hundreds of operations done he even had several patients report NDEs. No one, Not one, ever correctly identified the symbols on any card or even revealed that they had seen a card at all.

The brain is a funny thing. It likes to reconstruct and fill in gaps in its experience. So, a vague consciousness of doctors talking and working to resuscitate a patient gets reconstructed as looking down on themselves and the doctors. At first it's really simple, but over times the details get filled in.

Why should they even notice or should care about such a mundane card when such a life changing phenomena was taking place?

 

[JohnEmmett]

The brain is a funny thing.

Atheists only doubt

 

[GenemZ]

Atheists only doubt

Its beyond a doubt, they doubt...

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

cells enter a dormant non functioning “ pilot light “ state. Capable of “relighting “ but only if quickly enough ,

Death is the irreversible cessation of all biological functions that sustain an organism. There are various qualified meanings of death, e.g. versions of clinical death, versions of brain death, death for legal purposes, and so-on, but these are judgement calls for particular purposes - if the individual recovers, they were not dead, whether they were judged to be so or not.

In many of the cases after cardiac arrest , and other cases too, there is no functioning cortex left , so it is not possible to explain consciousness as a chemical process.

That's a popular claim, but hard to substantiate - lack of detectable activity doesn't mean lack of function, especially where EEG is concerned, and particularly in emergency situations. Even when high-level brain function is absent, sensory input can still be processed. A patient whose brain undergoes traumatic physiological stress, e.g. due to drugs, stress hormones, shock, hypoxia, etc., may recall vivid hallucinatory and time-distorted experiences. Large-scale, well-controlled scientific experiments, such as the Aware studies of cardiac arrest, have found that, while NDEs & OBEs are not uncommon, there's no indication that they're other than brain experiences produced by traumatic stress. When it's been possible to follow up reports of extraordinary experiences reported outside of well-controlled environments, accounts are often inconsistent, exaggerated, and/or inconclusive. Exaggeration and confabulation are characteristic of the propagation of accounts of interesting or unusual events, so it should be no great surprise.

There are hundreds of such cases. Books full of them.

There are books full of all kinds of imaginative stuff, from alien abductions to poltergeists, from divination to homeopathy.

 

[JohnEmmett]

if the individual recovers, they were not dead

they experience the afterlife, then come back and report

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

they experience the afterlife, then come back and report

In what sense is it the afterlife if they are alive the whole time?

 

[JohnEmmett]

In what sense is it the afterlife if they are alive the whole time?

You find it difficult to understand?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

You find it difficult to understand?

It was a simple question. Do you find it difficult to explain?