Sabbath and Sunday in early Christian Theology (under construction)

[BobRyan]

Tying the idea that the law cannot be reasonably divided up into today and yesterday with the thread topic,

1 Cor 7:19 Paul contrasts ceremonial law with moral law of God saying that circumcision does not matter "but what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" where as Paul says "honor your father and mother - is the first commandment with a promise" in that still valid unit of TEN included in the moral law of God.

As almost all Christian denominations affirm -- (as we all know by now)

here is a quote from Tertullian:

I am sticking with Paul and all of scripture "instead" . You of course can choose whatever you wish to establish your faith on-- you have free will.

 

[BobRyan]

When discussing the Sabbath, the question of whether it is possible to reasonably divide up the laws of the Old Testament into today laws and yesterday laws often comes up.

No wonder then that it is answered irrefutably by Paul in 1 Cor 7:19 - that is repeated so often on these threads (as we all know by now)
"19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God."

I love it when things are this easy and obvious such that almost all Christian denominations on planet Earth - on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic affirm this Bible basic concept.

 

[BobRyan]

Is there any indication that Jesus kept any Law other than Torah?

Is there any evidence Jesus ate rats? I don't find that in scripture?
Is there any evidence He worshiped false gods or dishonored His parents? I don't find any evidence of it.

Are you now arguing FOR "Keeping the Commandments of God" where "The first commandment with a promise is Honor your father and mother" in that Law that includes the TEN according to Paul??

 

[BobRyan]

Is there any indication that Jesus kept any Law other than Torah? In Jn15 Jesus indicates He kept His Father's commandments and He asks us to do the same? and He asks us to keep His commands.

In the Gospel of John Jesus flat out rejects the teaching that His Commands and the Father' commands are one wit different. Rather He says the WORDS He speaks were given to him by the Father.

More Bible please.

 

[Leaf473]

1 Cor 7:19 Paul contrasts ceremonial law with moral law of God saying that circumcision does not matter "but what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" where as Paul says "honor your father and mother - is the first commandment with a promise" in that still valid unit of TEN included in the moral law of God.

Paul could be referring to Commandments in the law of Moses, or he may be referring to Commandments that Jesus gave.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 28:19 - New International Reader's Version

So you must go and make disciples of all nations. Baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

As almost all Christian denominations affirm -- (as we all know by now)

What they affirm is a reinterpreted 10. Same words, different meaning

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 4:24 - New American Standard Bible

This is speaking allegorically, for these women are two covenants: one coming from Mount Sinai giving birth to children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

I am sticking with Paul and all of scripture "instead" . You of course can choose whatever you wish to establish your faith on-- you have free will.

Did you want to discuss how individuals interpreting scripture for themselves works in early Christian Theology?

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 24:45 - New American Standard Bible

Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

No wonder then that it is answered irrefutably by Paul in 1 Cor 7:19 - that is repeated so often on these threads (as we all know by now)
"19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God."

Paul uses that same word for commandment to mean things in addition to the Ten Commandments.

Can you list all of the commandments?

 

[Leaf473]

I love it when things are this easy and obvious such that almost all Christian denominations on planet Earth - on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic affirm this Bible basic concept.

They use the same words, but usually attach a different meaning to them.

Same words, different meaning.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 18:18 - New American Standard Bible

Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[BobRyan]

They use the same words, but usually attach a different meaning to them.

Same words, different meaning.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 18:18 - New American Standard Bible

Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

www.biblegateway.com

Not true in the case of TEN commandments written on stone.

But you are welcome to imagine whatever you wish - you have free will.

 

[BobRyan]

Paul uses that same word for commandment to mean things in addition to the Ten Commandments.

Where is the "other place" where "honor your father and mother is the first commandment with a promise" in your speculation?

 

[BobRyan]

Paul uses that same word for commandment to mean things in addition to the Ten Commandments.

Can you list all of the commandments?

You already admit to rejecting the commandments as God wrote them.

Why don't you argue in favor of a position you actually believe in?

 

[BobRyan]

Paul could be referring to Commandments in the law of Moses, or he may be referring to Commandments that Jesus gave.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 28:19 - New International Reader's Version

So you must go and make disciples of all nations. Baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

www.biblegateway.com

Your confusion on that point noted.

How blessed where are that the Bible commentaries are not in the least bit confused about them in Matt 19 and Rom 13.. But you are welcome to your speculation of course.

 

[Leaf473]

Not true in the case of TEN commandments written on stone.

But you are welcome to imagine whatever you wish - you have free will.

They usually attach a different meaning to the Sabbath commandment.

Same words, different meaning.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 5:10 - New American Standard Bible

I did not at all mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the greedy and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to leave the world.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

Where is the "other place" where "honor your father and mother is the first commandment with a promise" in your speculation?

The first commandment of the 10 that has a promise is honor your father and mother, yes.

There are other Commandments in addition to that.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 14:37 - New American Standard Bible

If anyone thinks that he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

You already admit to rejecting the commandments as God wrote them.

I freely admit that I don't keep the letter of the law, Yes

 

[Leaf473]

Why don't you argue in favor of a position you actually believe in?

I believe I am: the clearest issue with partial law theology is the inability of its adherents to say what the Commandments are. The Commandments are what matter

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 7:19 - New American Standard Bible

Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

Your confusion on that point noted.

How blessed where are that the Bible commentaries are not in the least bit confused about them in Matt 19 and Rom 13.. But you are welcome to your speculation of course.

If you're aware of a commentary that says specifically which Commandments Paul is talking about, please post the URL for it

 

[BobRyan]

If you're aware of a commentary that says specifically which Commandments Paul is talking about, please post the URL for it

You said you do not accept God's commandments as He wrote them - so not sure how the statement above helps your POV.

Eph 6:2 "First commandment with a promise" for "Honor your father and mother" relates to the second table of stone in the stone tablets God wrote on at Sinai in Ex 20. obviously.

So then as a simple basic example (first commentary on my list as it just so happens)

Matthew Henry on Eph 6:2 'Honor your father and mother"

Ephesians 6 - Henry's Complete Commentary on the Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Ephesians 6, Henry's Complete Commentary on the Bible, Matthew Henry's Commentary offers profound insights through meticulous analysis and historical context for Christian understanding.

www.studylight.org

"; it is the first commandment in the second table, and it has a promise." The promise is, That it may be well with thee, c., Ephesians 6:3; Ephesians 6:3. Observe, Whereas the promise in the commandment has reference to the land of Canaan, the apostle hereby shows that this and other promises which we have in the Old Testament relating to the land of Canaan are to be understood more generally. That you may not think that the Jews only, to whom God gave the land of Canaan, were bound by the fifth commandment, he here gives it a further sense,"​

I don't think the fact that the Bible commentaries notice this obvious Bible detail is a surprise to anyone here - including you., So I am unclear as to your point.

 

[BobRyan]

I believe I am: the clearest issue with partial law theology

You said your beliefs are not "based on my beliefs" -- rather you said you do not accept God's commandments as He gave them.

You never said anything about asking me for my POV before choosing to accept or reject God's commandments as He gave them.