Why the weekly Sabbath (Saturday) is the Lord's Day, in the Bible

[SabbathBlessings]

What is it you're looking for - creation related rest - a purely constant state in loving relationship with God learning from Him and tending to His creation where righteousness dwells - or taking a nap (at my age) from toiling in this fallen world living as a child under subjection to Law, sin and death and being trained about Messiah by sacrificing animals and gathering for certain days and periods meant to teach us God's calendar for human history to be fulfilled in and by Messiah and hoping we don't miss a Saturday so we won't be killed for disloyalty to the covenant so we get the ever-important concept of loyalty and faithfulness ingrained into us? Sounds like childhood training. Which of these do you think we now have in Christ as we strive for its ultimate fulfillment. I obey Christ in part by resting in Him constantly & continually as I am diligent under His easy yoke and light burden to enter the finality.

Some don't ignore the fact that a word, especially a uniquely used word that is a derivative of a widely used word that could have easily been used and that would have been better help to their case, derives its true meaning from the context in which it is used. This is why the Lexicons are going beyond what they can gather from the base word. The a(A) chose this uniquely used word in h(H)is Text to assert something special beyond weekly or periodic sabbaths of the bygone era. You're destroying the beauty of the lesson by minimizing its depth, correlating it to the OC covenantal sign and missing the greater significance of what the creation rest was to be, is, and will be. It's all about true relationship with God that we have in Christ our anapausis-rest for our souls now - not just Saturday. TGIS is every day in Christ.

I had to smile when I realized I had to look at a calendar to see what day it was, so I didn't mistakenly say Sabbath begins this evening! I don't live by clocks and calendars and haven't for some time unless I have an appointment or something with others who live by them. I enjoy my mostly clockless freedom in the rest He provides. I'm glad you have found 1/7th of it.

It's actually pretty simple the more I work on this with you. Thanks for helping.

You seem to be ignoring a lot of the details for some reason and going through it again I don't think will make a difference so I will leave it as I wish you well.

 

[GDL]

You seem to be ignoring a lot of the details for some reason and going through it again I don't think will make a difference so I will leave it as I wish you well.

I guess that means Sabbath means something else. It's good that some have a day per week to find rest, but it would be better if they understood being in Christ.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I guess that means Sabbath means something else. It's good that some have a day per week to find rest, but it would be better if they understood being in Christ.

I haven't come across the scripture that God said pick a day to rest. God is very specific Exodus 20:8-11 and it becomes dangerous ground imho when we try to sanctify ourselves with self-law instead of depending on God's law Exodus 32:16 which is righteous. Psalms 119:172. Being in Christ is full submission and not being an enmity to God's law. Romans 8

 

[GDL]

I haven't come across the scripture that God said pick a day to rest. God is very specific Exodus 20:8-11 and it becomes dangerous ground imho when we try to sanctify ourselves with self-law instead of depending on God's law Exodus 32:16 which is righteous. Psalms 119:172. Being in Christ is full submission and not being an enmity to God's law. Romans 8

Nor do you recognize or desire to discuss Scripture that says Jesus Christ is your anapausis-rest for your soul now or Scripture that defines uniquely used words that present deeper meanings than taking a day off. You're simply ignoring too much in a continuing effort to go back to a bygone era for your sanctification.

I think it's clear that God is developing a mature family now that takes full advantage of His Son - their current and future rest - and their heirship as sons in Spirit and is growing or has grown beyond the basics of Israel's calendar-based childhood training.

So, let's do a little work in Scripture that I don't think is repeat. I've looked at these in the past but will now simply use the work of another I have on file which will save me some work. If you'd like to double-check any of this and think there is an error, you can let me know:

I've already shown how your information about the 55 times "Sabbath" is used in the NC Writings was misleading in a way since it is never used after Acts. IMO this is a deafening silence for such an important commandment.

Then I mentioned Sabbath-breaking is never mentioned in lists of sins mentioned in the NC, which, IMO is odd since it deserved the death penalty in the OC.

• Jesus mentions thirteen moral sins that arise from the sinful heart, and Sabbath breaking is not one of them (Mark 7:21-22).
• Paul lists twenty sins in Romans 1:29-32 and Sabbath breaking is not included among them.
• Paul lists ten sins that bar one’s entrance into the Kingdom of God and Sabbath breaking is absent from the list (1 Cor 6:9-10).
• Paul lists fifteen sins that also bars one’s entrance into the Kingdom of God and Sabbath breaking is not among them (Gal 5:19-21).
• Paul lists eighteen sins and Sabbath breaking is not one of them (2 Tim 3:1-4).
• A total of thirteen sins are mentioned that bar one’s entrance into the holy city, New Jerusalem, and Sabbath breaking is not one of them (Rev 21:8; 22:15).

I would add this one which is similar in instruction:

• NKJ 1Tim1:8-11 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

We might reason that Sabbath could be included under some of this terminology but given the importance of the 4thC in the OC and in light of the above lists, it seems quite a stretch to force it into this list, when Sabbath breaking could so easily have been inserted in this or any of the lists above.

This in itself is not conclusive of weekly Sabbath observance no longer being valid, but it does seem to imply that the so-vital observance of the weekly Sabbath under the OC has changed. It also becomes another part of the argument against the 4thC being part of this new era in Christ who gives us anapausis-rest for our souls - especially since anapausis-rest is directly correlated to the OC weekly Sabbath as I have shown in post #603.

IMO the NC writing of Laws on hearts is really focused on perfecting moral character - the righteous character of our Creator - with no more consciousness of sins as Hebrews speaks of in regard to the perfected conscience now being developed in the Great High Priesthood of Jesus Christ in accordance with the changed Law - the Law of Christ.

Why are you so intent on forcing the breaking of the OC weekly 7th day rest & covenant sign into these lists of sins? Why not just enjoy what you're free to enjoy and consider that you too are working from conscience as you read Scripture just as others are doing? Seeing that the 4th may have been dropped by the only Law Giver does not mean the other 9 are. It's His Law and He's Lord of Sabbath and it seems pretty clear that the reality is far deeper than 1/7th.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Nor do you recognize or desire to discuss Scripture that says Jesus Christ is your anapausis-rest for your soul now or Scripture that defines uniquely used words that present deeper meanings than taking a day off. You're simply ignoring too much in a continuing effort to go back to a bygone era for your sanctification.

Which does not say the Sabbath commandment can now be ignored. The Sabbath commandment is not about something God does for us, that's not what the commandment says. Exodus 20:8-11. God did not command Himself to give us rest. We rest in Christ when are not in rebellion to Him which requires our obedience and breaking the Sabbath commandment is not an example of obedience. God cannot give us rest when we are in rebellion to what He asks. Rest means being in perfect harmony and submission to God.

I think it's clear that God is developing a mature family now that takes full advantage of His Son - their current and future rest - and their heirship as sons in Spirit and is growing or has grown beyond the basics of Israel's calendar-based childhood training.

So, let's do a little work in Scripture that I don't think is repeat. I've looked at these in the past but will now simply use the work of another I have on file which will save me some work. If you'd like to double-check any of this and think there is an error, you can let me know:

I've already shown how your information about the 55 times "Sabbath" is used in the NC Writings was misleading in a way since it is never used after Acts. IMO this is a deafening silence for such an important commandment.

Then I mentioned Sabbath-breaking is never mentioned in lists of sins mentioned in the NC, which, IMO is odd since it deserved the death penalty in the OC.

• Jesus mentions thirteen moral sins that arise from the sinful heart, and Sabbath breaking is not one of them (Mark 7:21-22).
• Paul lists twenty sins in Romans 1:29-32 and Sabbath breaking is not included among them.
• Paul lists ten sins that bar one’s entrance into the Kingdom of God and Sabbath breaking is absent from the list (1 Cor 6:9-10).
• Paul lists fifteen sins that also bars one’s entrance into the Kingdom of God and Sabbath breaking is not among them (Gal 5:19-21).
• Paul lists eighteen sins and Sabbath breaking is not one of them (2 Tim 3:1-4).
• A total of thirteen sins are mentioned that bar one’s entrance into the holy city, New Jerusalem, and Sabbath breaking is not one of them (Rev 21:8; 22:15).
• I would add this one which is similar in instruction:
  • NKJ 1Tim1:8-11 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. All of God's commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151.

The commandments came in a unit of Ten and you break one you break them all.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

In this same unit of Ten God also said "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy". So it's not consistent this means only 9 of the 10 when God spoke Ten.

There is a warning in Revelation 22:15 that those outside the kingdom is anyone who practices a lie, which is breaking any of the commandments.

We might reason that Sabbath could be included under some of this terminology but given the importance of the 4thC in the OC and in light of the above lists, it seems quite a stretch to force it into this list, when Sabbath breaking could so easily have been inserted in this or any of the lists above.

There is enough scripture to know God's people should keep the Sabbath commandment- God personally wrote it, God spoke it and its in the Most Holy of God's Temple where He dwells Revelation 11:19 and will continue on in His kingdom forever just as God promised, Jesus kept the Sabbath and all the commandments, the disciples kept it, scripture says we are to follow His example. I think the scriptures are written exactly how they were meant to be.

This in itself is not conclusive of weekly Sabbath observance no longer being valid, but it does seem to imply that the so-vital observance of the weekly Sabbath under the OC has changed.

Scripture please- where does it say the Sabbath commandment was abrogated?

It also becomes another part of the argument against the 4thC being part of this new era in Christ who gives us anapausis-rest for our souls - especially since anapausis-rest is directly correlated to the OC weekly Sabbath as I have shown in post #603.

IMO the NC writing of Laws on hearts is really focused on perfecting moral character - the righteous character of our Creator - with no more consciousness of sins as Hebrews speaks of in regard to the perfected conscience now being developed in the Great High Priesthood of Jesus Christ in accordance with the changed Law - the Law of Christ.

Again, we cannot sanctify ourselves nor is what we do righteous. God's commandments reflect the righteous character of God, not what we deem is morally right or wrong.

Why are you so intent on forcing the breaking of the OC weekly 7th day rest & covenant sign into these lists of sins?

Anytime we disobey God its a sin. Romans 7:7 is pointing to God's unit of Ten, not that we only need to keep that one commandment and not keeping the others is not sin.

Why not just enjoy what you're free to enjoy and consider that you too are working from conscience as you read Scripture just as others are doing? Seeing that the 4th may have been dropped by the only Law Giver does not mean the other 9 are.

Thats the most inconsistent argument there is. Forget the one commandment God said Remember and the one commandment that uses the words holy and blessed. Again, if you run across the scripture that says the Sabbath commandment has been abrogated, please share, as it has not been established from God's Word.

It's His Law and He's Lord of Sabbath and it seems pretty clear that the reality is far deeper than 1/7th.

Yes, its more than just a day off to rest, it's a weekly appointment God made with man to spend time in holy communion, freedom to leave all the work and stresses behind and only do the ways of the Lord and to rest in Him Isaiah 58:13 Exodus 20:8-11 Hebrews 4:10

Scripture warns us.....There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death. Proverbs 14:12

I think its really easy to convince oneself we do not need to obey one of God's commandments and think it's coming from scripture despite no evidence of it and I think it becomes dangerous when we start thinking for God and put our own interpretations on scripture and ignore the clear instructions given to us by God, because He loves and want us to obey Him, because He knows whats best for us.

 

[Freth]

What did Jesus say?

Tradition vs the Commandment of God

• Matthew 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Did Jesus change even one commandment?:

• Matthew 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Conclusion:

• Jesus rebuked following tradition that transgresses the commandment of God.
• Heaven and earth haven't passed, thus one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law.

Remember what Jesus relayed to John in Revelation.

• Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
  • The patience of the saints is defined as keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
  • Notice: The commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. They cannot be separated.
• Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
  • Notice: No adding, no taking away.

There is no way to negate these and other statements made by Jesus which uphold commandment keeping. Given the context of what Jesus said, there is no way any person can take what any apostle wrote and put it in opposition to His teaching, as they are in harmony.

 

[GDL]

What did Jesus say?

Tradition vs the Commandment of God

• Matthew 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

SORRY @Freth, I just noticed who this was from! Zoned in I guess. I'll edit a bit.

Seems like another redirect of things you cannot address, so back to the old arguments from the old era.

There's no man-made tradition in recognizing and coming to Jesus for His rest for our souls that He offered and still offers, and recognizing there has been a change in the Law and the OC covenantal sign of weekly Sabbath is no more.

Did Jesus change even one commandment?:

• Matthew 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

There must be something to that "fulfilled" word that you missed highlighting (actually the word most literally means "becomes") because the old priesthood is no longer, the sacrifices are no longer, the Temple in Jerusalem is no longer, some previously restricted foods are being freely eaten by believers based upon some NC Scripture, etc... Surely you are not living by all the Mosaic Law, are you? The break one break them all you keep referring to for the 10 is actually applicable to the entire Law. Is partiality in treatment of others one of the 10C? Didn't Paul likely go beyond the 10C in Rom13:9 when he said, "and if any other commandment" which assumes there are more?

You might be changing the Law of Christ by demanding the covenantal sign of the OC in lieu of resting in Christ. I guess that makes it necessary to ask you if you are resting in Christ. If you are, then have you added to the 10C?

Conclusion:

• Jesus rebuked following tradition that transgresses the commandment of God.

Agree. So did Paul and Peter after Him.

• Heaven and earth haven't passed, thus one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law.

Conclusion challenged above.

Remember what Jesus relayed to John in Revelation.

• Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
  • The patience of the saints is defined as keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
  • Notice: The commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. They cannot be separated.

Agree, but I don't see Jesus commanding the 7th. I see Him offering Himself as the true Sabbath. This seems to me to be the Faith He's handed down to us once for all.

No answers to the sins lists or lack of the word "sabbath" in the Epistles?

• Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
  • Notice: No adding, no taking away.

There is no way to negate these and other statements made by Jesus which uphold commandment keeping. Given the context of what Jesus said, there is no way any person can take what any apostle wrote and put it in opposition to His teaching, as they are in harmony.

No issue with commandments keeping. Just an issue with what commandments are now to be kept. Do you keep commandments beyond the 10?

 

[trophy33]

Did Jesus change even one commandment?

Sure.

For example:
It has also been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’
But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, brings adultery upon her. And he who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

or:
You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’
But I tell you not to resist an evil person.

or:
You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’ and ‘Hate your enemy.’
But I tell you, love your enemies

Mt 5, various verses

 

[GDL]

Which does not say the Sabbath commandment can now be ignored. The Sabbath commandment is not about something God does for us, but that's not what the commandment says. Exodus 20:8-11. God did not command Himself to give us rest. We rest in Christ when are not in rebellion to Him which requires our obedience and breaking the Sabbath commandment is not an example of obedience. God cannot give us rest when we are in rebellion to what He asks. Rest means being in perfect harmony and submission to God.

Assumes facts not in evidence, as they say. You have not supplied a legitimate, clear command in the NC to keep the OC covenantal sign of the bygone era. Your attempt to use Heb4 as such a command so weakens the message of Heb4 that I hope you won't assert it again.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. All of God's commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151.

Jesus Christ is the Truth John14:6 - His Gospel is the Truth Gal2:5; Gal2:14; Eph1:13; Col1:5 - Jesus Christ is our anapausis-rest for our souls Matt11:29-30.

All of God's commandments are truth, but God has seen fit to change His Law, so part of His Law was truth for an era, that is no longer applicable.

The commandments came in a unit of Ten and you break one you break them all.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

Repetitive.

James is not speaking just of the 10 but of Deut and the curse of the Law for the Mosaic Law as a unit. James is also speaking of partiality in treatment of people which is not clearly in the 10. James is also saying we will be judged by the Royal Law, the Freedom Law, the Love Neighbor Law which takes at minimum from the 10 but beyond, without clearly telling us the 4th is still intact. That word "Freedom" is an interesting one.

In this same unit of Ten God also said "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy". So it's not consistent this means only 9 of the 10 when God spoke Ten.

There is a warning in Revelation 22:15 that those outside the kingdom is anyone who practices a lie, which is breaking any of the commandments.


There is enough scripture to know God's people should keep the Sabbath commandment- God personally wrote it, God spoke it and its in the Most Holy of God's Temple where He dwells Revelation 11:19 and will continue on in His kingdom forever just as God promised, Jesus kept the Sabbath and all the commandments, the disciples kept it, scripture says we are to follow His example. I think the scriptures are written exactly how they were meant to be.

Scripture please- where does it say the Sabbath commandment was abrogated?

I'm going to skip some of the repetition.

Where does it say it is still intact? I've given you sins lists, dealt with your out of context use of sabbatismos, dealt with your weak attempt of make Heb4 a command to keep the 4thC, shown you how anapausis-rest in Christ directly correlates to Sabbath rest in the OC and watched you ignore repeated direction back to that post, provided you with research headings so you could get better geared up in covenants structures and signs, dealt with your misdirection of the numbers of usage of "sabbath" in the NC, asked you repeatedly if you'd like to get into Gal4 to deal with the days, months, seasons & years language as it may relate to the basic principles to be learned in childhood, etc. Your responses see to be simply repetitive attempting to control the narrative. It seems quite camp-based evangelism, planting the seed as you said earlier, one of the [main] ministries of SDA as I think I recall being alluded to by the SDA pastor in the video you posted.

You simply do not need to convince me of the importance of God's Law. You are not convincing me that the 7th day is a requirement of the Law of Christ in this new creation era as it was obviously a major one in the old era.

Again, we cannot sanctify ourselves nor is what we do righteous. God's commandments reflect the righteous character of God, not what we deem is morally right or wrong.

Anytime we disobey God its a sin. Romans 7:7 is pointing to God's unit of Ten, not that we only need to keep that one commandment and not keeping the others is not sin.

Thats the most inconsistent argument there is. Forget the one commandment God said Remember and the one commandment that uses the words holy and blessed. Again, if you run across the scripture that says the Sabbath commandment has been abrogated, please share, as it has not been established from God's Word.

Skipping again. It's about time we rested from the "again" repetitiveness.

If you run across the commandment that clearly says it's pertinent to this era like it was in the bygone era, please do the same. The absence of mention of it in the NC Epistles is deafening in its silence. I think the reason for the silence is Matt11:29-30 and the depth of Heb4 comparing to what God truly intended in Gen2 that we have now in Christ and will know in its fullness in eternity.

I'm also taking another look at Col2 especially since Paul is speaking about stoicheia there as he does in Gal4

Yes, its more than just a day off to rest, it's a weekly appointment God made with man to spend time in holy communion, freedom to leave all the work and stresses behind and only do the ways of the Lord and to rest in Him Isaiah 58:13 Exodus 20:8-11 Hebrews 4:10

Scripture warns us.....There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death. Proverbs 14:12

I think its really easy to convince oneself we do not need to obey one of God's commandments and think it's coming from scripture despite no evidence of it and I think it becomes dangerous when we start thinking for God and put our own interpretations on scripture and ignore the clear instructions given to us by God, because He loves and want us to obey Him, because He knows whats best for us.

One last time, in Christ I am resting and communing in constant and continuing rest under His light yoke as I walk in Spirit and am thus not under Law. In this state He writes His Law on my heart and conforms me to His likeness. My heart so far has no compulsion to 1 day/wk and I see Scripture telling me why.

The rest of what you say works both ways. You and SDA are putting your own interpretations on Scripture just like everyone else is. Once again, are you resting in Christ 1/7th of the time? Have you added back in what is no longer? I don't expect an answer. Just asking anyway.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Assumes facts not in evidence, as they say. You have not supplied a legitimate, clear commend in the NC to keep the OC covenantal sign of the bygone era. Your attempt to use Heb4 as such a command so weakens the message of Heb4 that I hope you won't assert it again.

Jesus Christ is the Truth John14:6 - His Gospel is the Truth Gal2:5; Gal2:14; Eph1:13; Col1:5 - Jesus Christ is our anapausis-rest for our souls Matt11:29-30.

All of God's commandments are truth, but God has seen fit to change His Law, so part of His Law was truth for an era, that is no longer applicable.

Repetitive.

James is not speaking just of the 10 but of Deut and the curse of the Law for the Mosaic Law as a unit. James is also speaking of partiality in treatment of people which is not clearly in the 10. James is also saying we will be judged by the Royal Law, the Freedom Law, the Love Neighbor Law which takes at minimum to the 10 but beyond, without clearly telling us the 4th is still intact. That word "Freedom" is an interesting one.

I'm going to skip some of the repetition.

Where does it say it is still intact? I've given you sins lists, dealt with your out of context use of sabbatismos, dealt with your weak attempt of make Heb4 a command to keep the 4thC, shown you how anapausis-rest in Christ directly correlates to Sabbath rest in the OC and watched you ignore repeated direction back to that post, provided you with research headings so you could get better geared up in covenants structures and signs, dealt with your misdirection of the numbers of usage of "sabbath" in the NC, asked you repeatedly if you'd like to get into Gal4 to deal with the days, months, seasons & years language as it may relate to the basic principles to be learned in childhood, etc. Your responses see to be simply repetitive attempting to control the narrative. It seems quite camp-based evangelism, planting the seed as you said earlier, one of the [main] ministries of SDA as I think I recall being alluded to by the SDA pastor in the video you posted.

You simply do not need to convince me of the importance of God's Law. You are not convincing me that the 7th day is a requirement of the Law of Christ in this new creation era as it was obviously a major one in the old era.

Skipping again. It's about time we rested from the "again" repetitiveness.

If you run across the commandment that clearly says it's pertinent to this era like it was in the bygone era, please do the same. The absence of mention of it in the NC Epistles is deafening in its silence. I think the reason for the silence is Matt11:29-30 and the depth of Heb4 comparing to what God truly intended in Gen2 that we have now in Christ and will know in its fullness in eternity.

I'm also taking another look at Col2 especially since Paul is speaking about stoicheia there as he does in Gal4


One last time, in Christ I am resting and communing in constant and continuing rest under His light yoke as I walk in Spirit and am thus not under Law. In this state He writes His Law on my heart and conforms me to His likeness. My heart so far has no compulsion to 1 day/wk and I see Scripture telling me why.

The rest of what you say works both ways. You and SDA are putting your own interpretations on Scripture just like everyone else is. Once again, are you resting in Christ 1/7th of the time? Have you added back in what is no longer? I don't expect an answer. Just asking anyway.

You might want to ask Strong and all the other Bible Indexes to stop including the literal translation to Hebrews 4:9 NIV and most of the bible translators, because it doesn't seem to agree with your theory. I will continue using it because it's truth.

Your whole theory is based on the faulty premise that God wrote all of His laws on the hearts and minds of His people, in the NC except for the 4th commandment. Yet not one scripture that shows the Sabbath commandment was abrogated, instead showing it was kept by Jesus, the disciples and His followers. There is also no scripture that says to ignore the example of Jesus of how a Christian person lives.

You misunderstand Hebrews 4 and the Sabbath commandment, nothing about only resting in Christ 1/7 of the time, we rest in Christ when we are obedient to Him, which means obeying all of His commandments.

I am not sure how one turns this... God claiming His commandments right in the Ten Commandments which includes the Sabbath commandment.

Exodus 20:6 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

into this...

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments (all the commandments, except for the 4th the one He asked us not to forget)

For me I am going to stick with the scriptures. Jesus came to do the will of the Father John 6:38 and came to magnify the law Isaiah 42:21 not make it smaller or destroy. Jesus is our example and kept all His Fathers commandments including the Sabbath commandment so I am going to follow the Lamb.

 

[trophy33]

There is also no scripture that says to ignore the example of Jesus of how a Christian person lives.

Jesus was born under the Law. We are not, because the Law ended with him.

The Letter to Galatians says it quite clearly, as quoted to you many times.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus was born under the Law. We are not, because the Law ended with him.

The Letter to Galatians says it quite clearly, as quoted to you many times.

So we can worship other gods now and bow to idols, covet and steal. Are you sure all the laws ended with Christ. If the law ended, so does sin Romans 4:15 and if is there is no more sin, than there is no more need of a Savior. This is a popular teaching, but not a biblical one.

 

[trophy33]

Are you sure all the laws ended with Christ.

The Law - singular, monolithic legal document given to Israel till Christ.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Law - singular, monolithic legal document given to Israel till Christ.

So I take it that's a yes, we can do whatever we want or self-law what seems right to us.

Alrighty- Revelation 22:14-15 Matthew 7:21-23 seems to disagree with your interpretation, and these are final events. I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[trophy33]

So I take it that's a yes, we can do whatever we want or self-law what seems right to us.

Alrighty- Revelation 22:14-15 Matthew 7:21-23 seems to disagree with your interpretation, and these are final events. I guess we will have to wait and see.

Please, try a bit more. The Law is not "all possible laws you can imagine". For example the laws of your country certainly apply to you.

The Law was a singular legal document given to Israel till Christ. This ended.

 

[GDL]

You might want to ask Strong and all the other Bible Indexes to stop including the literal translation to Hebrews 4:9 NIV and most of the bible translators, because it doesn't seem to agree with your theory. I will continue using it because it's truth.

Your whole theory is based on the faulty premise that God wrote all of His laws on the hearts and minds of His people, in the NC except for the 4th commandment. Yet not one scripture that shows the Sabbath commandment was abrogated, so for your sake I hope you're right. There is also no scripture that says to ignore the example of Jesus of how a Christian person lives.

You misunderstand Hebrews 4 and the Sabbath commandment, nothing about only resting in Christ 1/7 of the time, we rest in Christ when we are obedient to Him, which means obeying all of His commandments.

I am not sure how you get this....right in the Ten Commandments

Exodus 20:6 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Suddenly means this....

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments (all the commandments, except for the 4th)

Not much I can do for Mr. Strong and as I showed you, the Strong's Exhaustive covered the matter well.

As for the Bible translators, apart from asking them specifically what they mean by their translations, I guess we're supposed to do just what we are able to do these days with all the tools we have. I for one went back to school to learn Greek and then I accumulated wonderful digital tools to work in it, which I've been doing for 2+ decades as I recall. I'm pretty comfortable I could work on a translation team, and I was asked decades ago to travel to another continent to teach Greek.

The simple point of the matter is that you are turning that one unique word into what you want it to mean, and you are inserting your thinking into what you think you're reading. The simple fact as I said before is this word which is used one time (look up the term "hapax legomenon" if you're not familiar with it) must be understood by how it's being used in context. This is not the only occurrence of such a thing in Scripture. Going to a strictly literal definition from a single source like you have, is really leaving yourself open to passing on error. There's a reason some of the better references I showed you went to the figurative meaning. Another simple fact, to be clear, is that this verse does not say there remains the weekly seventh day Sabbath for Christians to obey. It makes no sense to the context to try to make it say this. It defeats the inspired author's intent of using the hapax.

I don't misunderstand Heb4 at all as far as you and I have dealt with it. It's clear you have misused it in a weak attempt to say it is a command to keep the 7th day. I'm glad you understand resting in Christ and that you get a double rest on Saturday.

Your last strike-through would be partially correct at this point but I would include many, many more commandments from the Mosaic Law in the deletion and then work to find any and all commandments and instruction that at minimum speak of God's perfect moral character and having to do with loving neighbor and one another as God defines love.

You don't like the sin lists, the lack of "sabbath" in the Epistles, the in Christ anapausis-rest for our souls, a greater selection of lexical references or Gal4 do you? I was going to look at SDA material to see what they do with such things, if anything. It seems like a waste of time though. Do you do your own work in Scripture or rely on SDA teaching? I think you mentioned it once, but were you always SDA or did you leave another denomination to go there?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Not much I can do for Mr. Strong and as I showed you, the Strong's Exhaustive covered the matter well.

Strong Exhaustive covers "possibilities" which is what you choose to use and ignore the literal translation including the one from your own source which translates Hebrews 4:9 NIV into Sabbath observance, which is what it means and remains for God's people. Thats your free will, but please don't pretend its not there.

There is no strike through on the commandments of God. No editing, no adding or subtracting Deut 4:2 , but again that's your free will to believe.

To answer your question regarding if I read the bible for myself and that is yes, I do, I read and study scriptures daily and I do not rely on SDA teachings, but find it is the closest I have seen to scriptures.

 

[GDL]

There is no strike through on the commandments of God. No editing, no adding or subtracting Deut 4:2 , but again that's your free will to believe.

Context, you children of Israel & greater than the 10C. Doesn't include the only Law-Giver.

God struck-through many of His commandments given to the children of Israel or no new Priesthood, etc., etc., etc., etc. We're looking for that core of God's righteous character IMO. We probably would agree way more than disagree on ultimate content.

We remain unconvinced by one another on the 4thC which was expected on my end. Your focus on Strong's literal is not good. It's not the best reference. I find it interesting how SDA on this forum so far is avoiding the Gal4 analysis and how you've avoided the ties between Matt11 & the OC Sabbath, and the sin lists and lack of discussion on Sabbath in the Epistles. I'm not even sure how Gal4 would play out to resolve anything or if it might cause me to reconsider. What I have seen is a strengthening of the argument against the 4thC in my thinking.

One of the things we didn't get to, though I think I did ask the question, concerns Sabbath from Adam to Moses. The noun Sabbath does not show up until Ex16:23 and it's a lesson for Israel as to what Sabbath even means and entails. Sabbath seems to be new to them and there is no discussion of Sabbath keeping before this, nor really during the Garden, pre-fall.

Nehemiah 9 is a quick run through history from creation > Abraham > Egypt > the Red Sea > this verse re: Sabbath:

NKJ Neh. 9:13-14 "You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 You made known to them Your holy Sabbath, And commanded them precepts, statutes and laws, By the hand of Moses Your servant.

It doesn't seem like Sabbath was passed down from the Garden. It rather seems quite new to a recently redeemed people, which tightens the scope from Moses to Christ. Mosaic 7th day is not an issue. Christ 7th day, we disagree on at this point.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Context, you children of Israel & greater than the 10C. Doesn't include the only Law-Giver.

Believe what you wish, the context is the commandments- do not edit- no adding or subtracting

God struck-through many of His commandments given to the children of Israel or no new Priesthood, etc., etc., etc., etc. We're looking for that core of God's righteous character IMO. We probably would agree way more than disagree on ultimate content.

Not everything is a commandment Neh 9:13, the law on the priesthood is not a commandment, the law on the animal sacrifices is not a commandment.

We remain unconvinced by one another on the 4thC which was expected on my end. Your focus on Strong's literal is not good. It's not the best reference.

I find it odd one would not take what it literally means in almost every bible index and bible translator and completely ignore that for a more figurative possibility. I am of the belief the Ten Commandments are on a different foundation, which not too long ago most people agreed even if not following. We are in different times now, just as God warned us what it would be like close to His return. Is there a heavenly rest, yes, but we do not enter His rest by being disobedient to what God commands. God did not command Himself to give us rest, the commandment is for us to obey becuase God wants to spend time with us on the day He set aside and sanctified.

I find it interesting how SDA on this forum so far is avoiding the Gal4 analysis and how you've avoided the ties between Matt11 & the OC Sabbath

Not avoiding, just haven’t seen in these scriptures or any scripture that says the Sabbath commandment is abrogated, but if you find this missing text, please let me know.

One of the things we didn't get to, though I think I did ask the question, concerns Sabbath from Adam to Moses. The noun Sabbath does not show up until Ex16:23 and it's a lesson for Israel as to what Sabbath even means and entails. Sabbath seems to be new to them and there is no discussion of Sabbath keeping before this, nor really during the Garden, pre-fall.

I have answered this a few times but I am going to let God’s very own Words and the very own Words of Jesus speak for Themselves…

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God

Was the Lord thy God in Exodus not the same Lord thy God at Creation and not the same Lord thy God at Judgment. Revelation 14:7

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Jesus said: Mark 2:27 The Sabbath (seventh day) was made for man anthrōpos

Which day was man created? The sixth day before the very first Sabbath that was made for mankind.

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the

The Sabbath commandment is the same pattern of Creation. God worked six days and rested on the seventh day. God commanded mankind, who the Sabbath was made for according to Jesus, to work six days Exodus 20:9 and keep the Sabbath day holy Exodus 20:8 which God said is the seventh day Exodus 20:10 because we are made in His image to follow God, not to do our own thing, which is exactly why man fell, listening to the other voice.

Nehemiah 9 is a quick run through history from creation > Abraham > Egypt > the Red Sea > this verse re: Sabbath:

NKJ Neh. 9:13-14 "You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 You made known to them Your holy Sabbath, And commanded them precepts, statutes and laws, By the hand of Moses Your servant.

It doesn't seem like Sabbath was passed down from the Garden. It rather seems quite new to a recently redeemed people, which tightens the scope from Moses to Christ. Mosaic 7th day is not an issue. Christ 7th day, we disagree on at this point.

The Sabbath is God’s Holy day made for mankind and one of God’s eternal commandments written by God’s own finger. The earthy temple was an exact replica of God’s heavenly temple Hebrews 8:5 where the ark of the covenant is Revelation 11:19 holding God’s Ten Commandments unedited and where Jesus, our High Priest ministers on our behalf in the Most Holy of His heavenly Temple. The Ten Commandments are under His mercy seat which we will be judged by James 2:10-12 and what defines sin when broken Romans 7:7

This argument you will need to take up with our Most High, not sure what more I can say that hasn’t been said.

 

[GDL]

Believe what you wish, the context is the commandments- do not edit- no adding or subtracting

Thank you. Doesn't apply to God.

Not everything is a commandment Neh 9:13, the law on the priesthood is not a commandment, the law on the animal sacrifices is not a commandment.

You know the Jews over time identified 613 commandments in the OC, correct? They're easy to find these days. There are more than 10.

There are many commandments re: the priesthood and the sacrifices. Quick glance rough estimate 130+ re: just these 2 topics.

You know Neh9 was about there being no Sabbath observance commanded or likely even created until Moses, correct?

I find it odd one would not take what it literally means in almost every bible index and bible translator and completely ignore that for a more figurative possibility. I am of the belief the Ten Commandments are on a different foundation, which not too long ago most people agreed even if not following. We are in different times now, just as God warned us what it would be like close to His return. Is there a heavenly rest, yes, but we do not enter His rest by being disobedient to what God commands. God did not command Himself to give us rest, the commandment is for us to obey becuase God wants to spend time with us on the day He set aside and sanctified.

Can only lead you to water. Unless we see the lesson in context you make the literal mean whatever you want it to mean. Eisegesis but we're watching you eisgetes.

Not avoiding, just haven’t seen in these scriptures or any scripture that says the Sabbath commandment is abrogated, but if you find this missing text, please let me know.

Definitely avoiding.

I have answered this a few times but I am going to let God’s very own Words and the very own Words of Jesus speak for Themselves…

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God

Doesn't concern Adam.

Was the Lord thy God in Exodus not the same Lord thy God at Creation?

Same God different eras.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Jesus said: Mark 2:27 The Sabbath (seventh day) was made for man (anthrōpos)

Which day was man created? The sixth day before the very first Sabbath that was made for mankind.

The Text says God - not man - rested - ceased from His work. There's no indication it was applied to man.

The Text calls it the 7th day not Sabbath.

There's no Scripture until Moses that uses the word Sabbath.

Nehemiah tells us the concept was new to the children of Israel. That's why we don't see "Sabbath" until Ex16.

Jesus' point in Mark2:27 was not about a creation ordinance but to deal with the Jews re: Sabbath issues and His being Lord of Sabbath which would speak to them about who He is. Sabbath looks to have been created at Moses time to begin teaching the children of Israel the basics leading to Christ.

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the

The Sabbath commandment is the same pattern of Creation. God worked six days and rested on the seventh day. God commanded mankind, who the Sabbath was made for according to Jesus, to work six days Exodus 20:9 and keep the Sabbath day holy Exodus 20:8 which God said is the seventh day Exodus 20:10 because we are made in His image to follow God, not to do our own thing, which is exactly why man fell, listening to the other voice.

That's what He had the children known as Israel doing. Teaching them the basics. No argument there.

The Sabbath is God’s Holy day made for mankind and one of God’s eternal commandments written by God’s own finger. The earthy temple was an exact replica of God’s heavenly temple Hebrews 8:5 where the ark of the covenant is Revelation 11:19 holding God’s Ten Commandments unedited and where Jesus, our High Priest ministers on our behalf in the Most Holy of His heavenly Temple. The Ten Commandments are under His mercy seat which we will be judged by James 2:10-12 and what defines sin when broken Romans 7:7

This argument you will need to take up with our Most High, not sure what more I can say that hasn’t been said.

As I said before, I'll give you Revelation for now. You can haggle the timing of Rev11 with others. I doubt you'll get too far with the Preterists on Rev11 being our future judgment. You should also make sure those looking for the ark of the covenant see this verse.

No actual Scripture says the Law of Freedom includes the Sabbath. Rom7:7 says nothing re: Sabbath and you know by now that Sabbath is not a NC topic in the Epistles. Coveting gets back to those moral issues of God's character I mentioned.

Probably nothing more. You seem to be grasping at straws at this point and you've avoided some other topics that there are simply no arguments against that come to my mind.

FWIW, on the one hand the best argument the Sabbath observance POV has IMO is the argument from silence removing the commandment. On the other hand, the several areas of silence seem to accumulate to be screaming at us - virtually no mention, not on sins lists, Jesus our rest, etc. - It just essentially does not exist in the NC Epistles other than in Heb4 where you're stuck on a single dictionary that from my vantage point speaks against you. So, the problem is that there are many points - maybe too many - IMO that argue against it still being relevant. At this point I think it was one of the A, B, C's to teach youthful Israel to prepare them and us for adulthood and it was a sign of the bygone covenant.