Why the weekly Sabbath (Saturday) is the Lord's Day, in the Bible

[HIM]

"As regards this external observance, this commandment [about Sabbath] was given to the Jews alone"
Luther's Large Catechism, 1529

"SUPERSTITION. In this connection we do not yield to the Jewish observance and to superstitions. For we do not believe that one day is any holier than another, or think that rest in itself is acceptable to God. Moreover, we celebrate the Lord's Day and not the Sabbath as a free observance."
The Second Helvetic Confession, 1562

They kept Sunday in the Sabbath's stead. As was said the Ten were never a question prior to the 20 century.

 

[trophy33]

They kept Sunday in the Sabbath's stead. As was said the Ten were never a question prior to the 21 century.

No, they did not keep Sunday instead of the Sabbath. The RCC did/does, but protestants did not/do not.

Edit: English

 

[Leaf473]

And yet you circled back to it here --

No, I said "lends weight", not "instead of."

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 2:3 - Tree of Life Version

Then many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of ADONAI, to the House of the God of Jacob! Then He will teach us His ways, and we will walk in His paths.” For Torah will go forth from Zion and the word of ADONAI from Jerusalem.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

Is that what you see Christ doing in Mark 7:6-13??

I see him acknowledging authority. Note that when Jesus is talking to Pharisees, he quotes from both the law and the prophets. But when he's talking to Sadducees, he quotes only from the law, which is what they considered scripture.

Bible Gateway passage: John 19:11 - New American Standard Bible

Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over Me at all, if it had not been given to you from above; for this reason the one who handed Me over to you has the greater sin.”

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

read the post please. If you have a way to spin the statement in Mark 7 as Christ in full agreement with their tradition -- show us how that bit of gymnastics is done.

I don't think he was in full agreement with them.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing, that's black and white thinking.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 23:2 - New King James Version

saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[HIM]

No, they did not keep Sunday instead of the Sabbath. The RCC did/does, but protestants did not/do not.

Edit: English

If you were a protestant in the 19 century and before you would not have argue the Ten. You would have been ousted.

At that time If we went to almost any church or School they were taught and were on display. Even Government buildings for the most part there would be a display of them.

Protestant churches then and now are much different as a whole.

Above encrypted in each line are links to sites that show your error. But just in case you are not willing to go there we will post some quotes from a few of the pioneers.

Martin Luther​

“I wonder exceedingly how it came to be imputed to me that I should reject the law of Ten Commandments…. Can anyone think that sin exists where there is no law?… Whosoever abrogates the law must of necessity, abrogate sin also.” Luther’s Works (trans., Weimer ed.), Vol. 50, pp. 470-471; originally printed in his Spiritual Antichrist, pp. 71, 72.

John Calvin​

“We must not imagine that the coming of Christ has freed us from the authority of the law, for it is the eternal rule of a devout and holy life, and must, therefore, be as unchangeable as the justice of God, which it embraced, is consistent and uniform.” Commentary on the Harmony of the Gospels, Vol. 1, p. 277.

John Wesley​

“‘Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil’” [Matthew 5:17] …The ritual or ceremonial law, delivered by Moses to the children of Israel, containing all the injunctions and ordinances which related to the old sacrifices and service of the temple, our Lord indeed did come to destroy, to dissolve, and utterly abolish…

But the moral law, contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away. It was not the design of His coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which never can be broken, which stands fast as the faithful witness in heaven. The moral stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law, which was only designed for a temporary restraint upon a disobedient and stiff-necked people; whereas this was from the beginning of the world, being ‘written not on tables of stone,’ but on the hearts of all the children of men, when they came out of the hands of the Creator.

And, however the letters once wrote by the finger of God are now in a great measure defaced by sin, yet can they not wholly be blotted out, while we have any consciousness of good and evil. Every part of this law must remain in force, upon all mankind, and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God and the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other.” On the Sermon on the Mount, Discourse 6, Sermons on Several Occasions (1810), pp. 75-76.

Dwight L. Moody​

“Now men may cavil as much as they like about other parts of the Bible, but I have never met an honest man that found fault with the Ten Commandments. Infidels may mock the Lawgiver and reject Him who has delivered us from the curse of the law, but they can’t help admitting that the commandments are right…they are for all nations, and will remain the commandments of God through the centuries…

The people must be made to understand that the Ten Commandments are still binding, and that there is a penalty attached to their violation…Jesus never condemned the law and the prophets, but He did condemn those who did not obey them [see Matthew 5:17-19].” Weighed and Wanting, pp. 11, 16, 15.

Charles Spurgeon​

“Jesus did not come to change the law, but he came to explain it [see Matthew 5:17-19], and that very fact shows that it remains, for there is no need to explain that which is abrogated…In addition to explaining it the Master went further: he pointed out its spiritual character.

This the Jews had not observed. They thought, for instance, that the command ‘Thou shalt not kill’ simply forbade murder and manslaughter: but the Saviour showed that anger without cause violates the law, and that hard words and cursing, and all other displays of enmity and malice, are forbidden by the commandment [see Matthew 5:21, 22].” Perpetuity of the Law of God, pp. 4-7.

 

[expos4ever]

The Law on parchment and tables of stone tell us what sin is and keep us in sound doctrine as Paul through Christ show us explicitly in Timothy. The law, His Word in our hearts through His Spirit changes us so that we don't do the things that we would having crucified the flesh and the affections thereof, being of and in Christ.

This begs the question and evades my point.

Why is it evasive? It is evasive because you have not engaged my assertion that it is plausible that God could choose to give us a new moral compass. You need to explain precisely why I am mistaken in making this assertion. For example, if you could demonstrate from scripture that the Law of Moses is truly eternal, then you would have succeeded in showing my assertion was implausible. That will be a challenge since we know the Hebrew word that is translated as "eternal" in all those Old Testament texts asserting the everlasting nature of the Law really means "for a long time", not forever. But make whatever case you want, but you need to make a case that it is not plausible that God would give us a new moral compass.

Why does you reply beg the question? Because, at least in the two sentences I have reproduced above, you merely assert that the Law continues to serve in the role of telling us what sin is - you do not provide a supporting. Perhaps you have done so elsewhere - please let me know in what post(s) you make an actual case that we still need the Law to tell us what sin is.

 

[Leaf473]

True, which is why I follow God’s Word over churches, we all have access to bibles so there is no excuse not to verify what a pastor is saying with the Word of God. We are accountable for Truth 2 Thes 2:10, if we have access to God’s Word.

Oh yes, I follow God's word, too. I also think it's good to acknowledge that the Bible has a history, don't you?

Also, it's church, not churches. Church can be used as a local body, but I've been using it to mean the one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

The way church is used here:

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 18:17 - New King James Version

And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

Some truth Psalms 119:151 is more easy to understand than others and God made for certain man could easily understand the Ten Commandment. He personally wrote it and personally spoke it and even a child could understand.

Some things can look simple and turn out not to be so

Bible Gateway passage: Proverbs 25:2 - New King James Version

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

The church can’t save us only Jesus saves, so for me that is who I choose to follow and obey.

The church is the body of Christ, Jesus on Earth. That's why it can be the pillar and ground of the truth, because Jesus is the truth.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 3:15 - New King James Version

but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

The church can’t save us only Jesus saves, so for me that is who I choose to follow and obey.

Also, this came to my mind,

Bible Gateway passage: Colossians 1:24 - New King James Version

Sacrificial Service for Christ - I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church,

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

We are free to self-law and self-righteousness I prefer God’s righteousness Psalms 119:172 His works Exodus 32:16 as our works can’t save or sanctify only God can Ezekiel 20:12 through the truth of His Word. John 17:17. Scripture promises that the Holy Spirit will teach everything God said, not what man says.

Right, not self-law or self-righteousness, but "self-canon", "pick out the scriptures for yourself."

And as I said, that might just be the best way to do it

God gives the Holy Spirit to those who keep his commandments, but that's the Commandments as far as they know them, isn't it? Like, an illiterate person living a thousand years ago in France would only have known Sunday worship. But God would still give them the Holy Spirit, wouldn't he?

 

[Leaf473]

John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

Great scripture, and notice that there's two parts to it:
teach you all things
and
bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

The table of contents in your Bible, is that something the Holy Spirit taught you?

Or is it something God said?

Honest questions. I have my own answers, but what do you say?

 

[trophy33]

If you were a protestant in the 19 century and before you would not have argue the Ten. You would have been ousted.

At that time If we went to almost any church or School they were taught and were on display. Even Government buildings for the most part there would be a display of them.

Protestant churches then and now are much different as a whole.

Above encrypted in each line are links to sites that show your error. But just in case you are not willing to go there we will post some quotes from a few of the pioneers.

Martin Luther​

“I wonder exceedingly how it came to be imputed to me that I should reject the law of Ten Commandments…. Can anyone think that sin exists where there is no law?… Whosoever abrogates the law must of necessity, abrogate sin also.” Luther’s Works (trans., Weimer ed.), Vol. 50, pp. 470-471; originally printed in his Spiritual Antichrist, pp. 71, 72.

John Calvin​

“We must not imagine that the coming of Christ has freed us from the authority of the law, for it is the eternal rule of a devout and holy life, and must, therefore, be as unchangeable as the justice of God, which it embraced, is consistent and uniform.” Commentary on the Harmony of the Gospels, Vol. 1, p. 277.

John Wesley​

“‘Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil’” [Matthew 5:17] …The ritual or ceremonial law, delivered by Moses to the children of Israel, containing all the injunctions and ordinances which related to the old sacrifices and service of the temple, our Lord indeed did come to destroy, to dissolve, and utterly abolish…

But the moral law, contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away. It was not the design of His coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which never can be broken, which stands fast as the faithful witness in heaven. The moral stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law, which was only designed for a temporary restraint upon a disobedient and stiff-necked people; whereas this was from the beginning of the world, being ‘written not on tables of stone,’ but on the hearts of all the children of men, when they came out of the hands of the Creator.

And, however the letters once wrote by the finger of God are now in a great measure defaced by sin, yet can they not wholly be blotted out, while we have any consciousness of good and evil. Every part of this law must remain in force, upon all mankind, and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God and the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other.” On the Sermon on the Mount, Discourse 6, Sermons on Several Occasions (1810), pp. 75-76.

Dwight L. Moody​

“Now men may cavil as much as they like about other parts of the Bible, but I have never met an honest man that found fault with the Ten Commandments. Infidels may mock the Lawgiver and reject Him who has delivered us from the curse of the law, but they can’t help admitting that the commandments are right…they are for all nations, and will remain the commandments of God through the centuries…

The people must be made to understand that the Ten Commandments are still binding, and that there is a penalty attached to their violation…Jesus never condemned the law and the prophets, but He did condemn those who did not obey them [see Matthew 5:17-19].” Weighed and Wanting, pp. 11, 16, 15.

Charles Spurgeon​

“Jesus did not come to change the law, but he came to explain it [see Matthew 5:17-19], and that very fact shows that it remains, for there is no need to explain that which is abrogated…In addition to explaining it the Master went further: he pointed out its spiritual character.

This the Jews had not observed. They thought, for instance, that the command ‘Thou shalt not kill’ simply forbade murder and manslaughter: but the Saviour showed that anger without cause violates the law, and that hard words and cursing, and all other displays of enmity and malice, are forbidden by the commandment [see Matthew 5:21, 22].” Perpetuity of the Law of God, pp. 4-7.

"As regards this external observance, this commandment [about Sabbath] was given to the Jews alone"
Luther's Large Catechism, 1529

"Scripture has abrogated the Sabbath-day; for it teaches that, since the Gospel has been revealed, all the ceremonies of Moses can be omitted."
Confessio Augustana, 1530

"SUPERSTITION. In this connection we do not yield to the Jewish observance and to superstitions. For we do not believe that one day is any holier than another, or think that rest in itself is acceptable to God. Moreover, we celebrate the Lord's Day and not the Sabbath as a free observance."
The Second Helvetic Confession, 1562

After the 30 years war in the 17th century, three confessions were allowed in Europe - Catholicism, Lutheranism and Calvinism/reformed.

Both Lutheran and reformed churches basic documents are quoted above.

 

[Leaf473]

The Holy Spirit will bring to our remembrance all the things God said. God said do not edit my commandments Deut 4:2 and after God wrote and God spoke the Ten Commandments He added no more. Deut 5:22

Did God say that the shepherd of hermas was in the Bible? If not, how did you decide?

Should we listen to what the bulk of Christians have said throughout history?

The 10 words are written in Hebrew. Some amount of editing and interpreting happens with translation, because the markings on the page have to be turned into meanings in the mind of the translator, and then back into markings on the page in the new language.

Does it make sense to listen to what native speakers at the time thought? I think so.

 

[Leaf473]

But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”. Matthew 4:4

A big Amen to that!

And it appears that Jesus (or Matthew) is using the lxx, thus validating the process of translation, the editing and interpreting.

Matthew 4
Οὐκ ἐπ’ ἄρτῳ μόνῳ ζήσεται ὁ ἄνθρωπος, ἀλλ’ ἐπὶ παντὶ ῥήματι ἐκπορευομένῳ διὰ στόματος θεοῦ.

Deuteronomy 8
Oὐκ ἐπ᾽ ἄρτῳ μόνῳ ζήσεται ὁ ἄνθρωπος ἀλλ᾽ ἐπὶ παντὶ ῥήματι τῷ ἐκπορευομένῳ διὰ στόματος θεοῦ

Bible Gateway passage: ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 4 - SBL Greek New Testament

Τότε ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἀνήχθη εἰς τὴν ἔρημον ὑπὸ τοῦ πνεύματος, πειρασθῆναι ὑπὸ τοῦ διαβόλου. καὶ νηστεύσας ἡμέρας τεσσεράκοντα καὶ νύκτας τεσσεράκοντα ὕστερον ἐπείνασεν. καὶ προσελθὼν ὁ πειράζων εἶπεν αὐτῷ· Εἰ υἱὸς εἶ τοῦ θεοῦ, εἰπὲ ἵνα οἱ λίθοι οὗτοι ἄρτοι γένωνται. ὁ δὲ ἀποκριθεὶς εἶπεν· Γέγραπται·...

www.biblegateway.com

Δευτερονόμιο (Deuteronomy) 8 :: Septuagint (LXX)

Δευτερονόμιο (Deuteronomy) 8 - πάσας τὰς ἐντολάς ἃς ἐγὼ ἐντέλλομαι ὑμῖν σήμερον φυλάξεσθε ποιεῖν ἵνα ζῆτε καὶ πολυπλασιασθῆτε καὶ εἰσέλθητε καὶ κληρονομήσητε τὴν γῆν ἣν κύριος ὁ θεὸς ὑμῶν ὤμοσεν τοῖς πατράσιν ὑμῶν

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[Leaf473]

If you need the catholic church to tell you what scripture means and believe they are above the Bible and have free will to edit God’s commandments you’re free to follow that path.

Well, not so much the Catholic church, but the church, the body of Christ, however you want to identify it

We can say that God did not lead the church to identify the scriptures. In that case, it's up to each person to pick out the scriptures themselves.

As I said, that might be the best way to go

 

[GDL]

Third, this kind of statement really does stray into "appeal to authority" fallacy territory.

Pot & kettle.

This begs the question and evades my point.

Oft repeated allegation. Oft w/o merit.

You need to explain

Assumed authority.

since we know

Mouse in the pocket.

you need to make a case

Assumed authority.

please let me know

Refreshing respite.

BTW, since you & I were having a friendly chat about Romans, I continued there for some updated & deeper work and have learned some things that have refined at minimum my understanding of some terminology Paul uses. One that only Paul uses & only once. Since it's all context to what you & I were having a friendly chat about, I doubt it will be of interest. I just wanted to thank you for being one who inspired me to look at some things again this week.

 

[Leaf473]

Jesus told us to not follow mans traditions over the commandments of God Matthew 15:3-9 but He loves us so much He gives us free will so we are free to choose tradition over God’s Word, people do this daily and our choices determines the direction we are heading.

Not every tradition that isn't in the Bible is necessarily a man-made tradition.

The vast majority of Christians are willing to accept tradition when it comes to deciding what is scripture and what isn't. But that might not be the best approach. That vast majority may be the broad path to destruction.

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Thessalonians 2:15 - New American Standard Bible

So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold on to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

Every time we choose something over God, piece by piece we are held captive in Babylon, God wants us to come out of Babylon and embrace His Truth. Revelation 18:4 which is how He requires us to worship Him John 4:23-24 and all His commandments are Truth. Psalms 119:151

Amen to putting God first and coming out of Babylon!

And Amen to all of God's commandments, and also his testimonies, which are forever.

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 119:152 - New American Standard Bible

From long ago I have known from Your testimonies That You have founded them forever.

www.biblegateway.com