Why the weekly Sabbath (Saturday) is the Lord's Day, in the Bible

[BobRyan]

Is not logical to achieve a 7th day Sabbath Rest for us humans

You have free will you can reject what you wish and believe what you wish.

Jesus said it was for humans specifically Mark 2:27. I am going with Jesus on this one.

Isaiah says it continues for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - such that "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before me to worship" Is 66:23

 

[BobRyan]

Weak arguments being the only thing provided so far against the Bible Sabbath --

of the form
1. Not possible to have a project for 2 weeks where you rest over the weekend.
2. Not possible for gentiles to be given the Sabbath as if they are part of MANKIND in Mark 2:27, Is 66:23
3. Not possible for the Sabbath to remain if Christ is our Savior...

IS IT ANY WONDER that almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today??

 

[pasifika]

You have free will you can reject what you wish and believe what you wish.

Jesus said it was for humans specifically Mark 2:27. I am going with Jesus on this one.

Isaiah says it continues for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - such that "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before me to worship" Is 66:23

Yes I agree Bob, the Sabbath was made for man. That day is called "today" for the people of God. The 7th day was specifically for God's Sabbath rest.

 

[expos4ever]

Not true. Once again I demonstrate that texts like Rom 3:19 are so easy to read and understand that everyone accepts the point.

Yes, you do evade.

Here is why you evade. You consistently avoid engaging this argument:

So consider this very abstract, general statement:

We maintain that a person's justification has nothing to do with engaging in behaviour X; or is justification only for group A? Is not justification also available to group B as well? Yes, justification is available to both groups A and B.

It is an undeniable fact of logic that this block of text, as unit, logically forces us to conclude that only group A is able to engage in behaviour X.

End of discussion - how can anyone deny this? If it were the case that group B could engage in behaviour X, then justification would indeed be available to them and there would be no need to even raise the connection between justification and engaging in behaviour X in the first place!

To show how absurd it is to argue that Paul believes that Gentiles are under the Law given verses 28 and 29, consider these statements where we know that one group is not subject to a particular law:

For we maintain that a person is in the position of being justified apart from obeying the law against banking one's own sperm. Or does the Law apply to men only? Does it not apply to women too, yet to women too.

The second and third sentences makes no sense - no person with a lick of reasoning power would ever write the second and third sentences for the painfully obvious reason that only men can bank their own sperm.

Time to stop evading: How can you make sense of Romans 3:28:29 without conceding that only Jews are under the law. And your answer must, to be a non-evasive one, explain this text: Romans 3:28:29. You are free to tell us all sorts of other things, but unless your response makes sense of Romans 3:28-29, you are evading. You tell us all sorts of things that may indeed be true, but you never actually directly engage Romans 3:28-29.

 

[expos4ever]

Not true. Once again I demonstrate that texts like Rom 3:19 are so easy to read and understand that everyone accepts the point.

I wrote:

...the fact that every mouth will be shut is clearly entirely beside the point. Why? Simply because it certainly could be the case that every mouth could be shut without all being under the Law.

Your answer:

"whatever the LAW says - it says to those UNDER THE LAW so that.. EVERY mouth... ALL the WORLD - accountable.

How is this not obvious begging the question?! The fact all all can be found accountable without all being under a single law is understandable to an adolescent - imagine how silly it would be for an American to say that a Canadian must be under American law just because that Canadian has been deemed guilty of murder under Canadian law.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Thank you for your response, appreciate it. Good points, as in Hebrews 4:3 ...And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world"...

I think that is the kind of rest that Hebrews 4 is trying to convey to us (Christians), the kind of "rest" In which God had on the 7th day after His work. (A complete rest no work after). A rest from slavery to Sin a rest we can only find in Christ.

Hebrews 4:10..for anyone who enters God's Rest also rests from their works, just as God did from His..

Some, religions interpret the "rest" (Sabbath rest) of Hebrews 4 as a normal weekly rest but is more than that. A weekly rest is more of a temporary rest as you do your normal works week after week meaning you've not completed your works, in contrast to God complete work in creation.

Thank you for your excellent response.

 

[BobRyan]

I wrote:

...the fact that every mouth will be shut is clearly entirely beside the point. Why? Simply because it certainly could be the case that every mouth could be shut without all being under the Law.

Your answer:

My answer is that your argument "is with the text"

Rom 3:19 -- "whatever the LAW says - it says to those UNDER THE LAW so that.. EVERY mouth... ALL the WORLD - accountable
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

1 John 3:4 KJV - 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

"whatever the LAW says - it says to those UNDER THE LAW so that.. EVERY mouth... ALL the WORLD - accountable.

How is this not obvious begging the question?! The fact all all can be found accountable without all being under a single law

Is totally out of line with the text. You hold it at too great a distance so you can get to that sort of suggestion.

look at the actual text, the actual context...

9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written,

“There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And the path of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”


Your posts keep ignoring the details in the actual text of scripture and then substitute in your suggestions. Not very compelling.

is understandable to an adolescent

Believe as you wish --

Meanwhile - it is no wonder that almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today - in fact for all mankind

 

[BobRyan]

Yes I agree Bob, the Sabbath was made for man.

In Gen 2:1-3 we see the Sabbath made and in Gen 1 we see mankind made one day before the Sabbath. Genesis speaks of the making of both.
Mark 2:27 speaks of the making of both the Sabbath and mankind.

That day is called "today" for the people of God.

The "today" for the people of God is a reference to David's day according to Heb 4

7 He again sets a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,

“Today if you hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. 9 Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Is it your belief that the Sabbath remains -- as it was in the "Today" of David's day??

God says it is for humans to observe in Ex 20:8-11

In Is 66:23 God says that in fact all mankind will observe it for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth -- Is 66:23

 

[trophy33]

The book of Revelation is scripture.

2 Tim 3: "16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,"

The point remains.

The point remains - understanding the genre, language, context, purpose, original audience etc. of the text is needed for a proper use.

Its needed even more, because it is a Scripture, not less.

 

[trophy33]

Is 66:23 ALL MANKIND
IS 56:6-8 GENTILES specifically
Acts 13 - GENTILES ask for more Gospel preaching "on the NEXT Sabbath"

Mark 2:27 Jesus Christ taught "the Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND"

There is no command "Gentiles, keep the Sabbath" or "Christians, keep the Sabbath" like there was to Israel.

You are personally interpreting some places to mean that - but thats just your interpretation.

 

[trophy33]

Is 56:6-8

6“Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,​

To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,​

To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the Sabbath​

And holds fast My covenant;​

7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain​

And make them joyful in My house of prayer.​

Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;​

For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”​

8 The Lord God, who gathers the dispersed of Israel, declares,​

“Yet others I will gather to them, to those already gathered.”​

Already responded to many times.

This text is about Gentiles joining the Old Covenant, i.e. about proselytes to "Judaism" (Christianity has no house of prayer, no altar, no burnt offerings, no Sabbaths etc).

If you want to spiritualize the text to prophetically mean spiritual things and Christianity, then also the Sabbath there should be spiritualized, for the text to be consistent - i.e. not meaning a literal, physical observance of a day.

 

[pasifika]

In Gen 2:1-3 we see the Sabbath made and in Gen 1 we see mankind made one day before the Sabbath. Genesis speaks of the making of both.
Mark 2:27 speaks of the making of both the Sabbath and mankind.


The "today" for the people of God is a reference to David's day according to Heb 4

7 He again sets a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,

“Today if you hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. 9 Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Is it your belief that the Sabbath remains -- as it was in the "Today" of David's day??

God says it is for humans to observe in Ex 20:8-11

In Is 66:23 God says that in fact all mankind will observe it for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth -- Is 66:23

Hi Bob, God has more than one Sabbath days ie Lev23 all these Sabbaths falls on different days.

The Sabbath in Genesis is on the 7th day that is very clear

The Sabbath in Mark 2:27 is not specific to any particular day. This is a general statement about Sabbath as "God's rest" which was made for man.
This will tie in to Hebrews 4:9..there remains a "Sabbath rest" for the people of God.

So, both Mark 2:27, or Hebrews 4:9 are not talking about the 7th day Sabbath but the "Sabbath rest " in general.

The "today" in Hebrews 4:7,8,9 is not for David's day only but for our days and to the future, as we are all "God's people". Yes the "Sabbath rest" still remains as some of us still yet to enter into it. It doesn't mean you enter into God's Sabbath Rest on the 7th day but another day called "today".

 

[HIM]

.

We cease from our own work (to save, and rest in Jesus' completed work which saves).

As God did? God rested in Jesus' completed work which saves?

 

[HIM]

We are talking about Acts, chapter 18, to remind you - Paul visiting synagogues on Sabbath.

It was every Sabbath and you quoted Romans 7:6 in the post that was responded too. Hence this post

What does chapter six say. It says how can we who are baptized into Christ Jesus sin.. For we are no longer servants of sin but of righteousness. So if we are not sinning then there is no need for a law. For the law if the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death, that the righteousness of the law be fulfilled in us who walk after the spirit and not after the flesh

 

[HIM]

Isaiah is a Jewish book given to Jews and from the era of burnt sacrifices.

Your interpretation "its for us today" is just your personal view that is not confirmed by the apostolic Christianity.

"Your interpretation "its for us today" is just your personal view that is not confirmed by the apostolic Christianity?"
Care to prove that?

 

[HIM]

God only has one people, God never made a covenant with Gentiles, Israel is just a name God gave His people and we are grafted in His covenant promise through faith Gal 2:26-28 those with faith uphold the law Romans 3:31 and God’s people keeps God’s commandments Revelation 14:12 its a fruit of faith.

But we also have this…

Isaiah 56:6 “Also the sons of the foreigner (Gentile)
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices (sins forgiven)
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

I sure want God to bring me to His holy mountain!

So there is no specific commandment given to Christians or to Gentiles to keep the weekly Sabbath?

Sabbath blessings did you take note of verses 8? God through Isaiah says He will gather others to him beside those those who are gathered unto him. That was not fulfilled in Isaiah's time. It was not fulfilled until after Jesus' Asension through the ministry of Paul..

Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
Isa 56:8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

 

[HIM]

Hi @HIM can you elaborate more on your statement above..."In ADDITION to cease from our labour, our creative work that we do to exist on the seventh day...

what exactly is our labour or creative work?

Thanks

Hi pasifika,
The things we do to get and keep food, housing and clothes.

 

[expos4ever]

unless you like the rest of Christianity admit that all mankind are lost , condemned just as Rom 3:19 states and so all need the Gospel..

This glaringly obvious point is not even a little bit confusing for most readers.

The above is your response to my statement that the fact that every mouth is shut is besides the point vis a vis

I want to unpack this so that readers will know the tactic you are deploying - evasion.

Here is the text at issue:

Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are [k]under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;

You reply, above, amounts to affirming that the fact that all mouths are shut means that all are under the law.

But this is so obviously incorrect that you have to know this! How can you possibly not know that it is conceivable that all mouths could be shut without all humanity being under a single common law? What about the possibility that the Law is for Jews only and that all the rest of humanity is under condemnation because their consciences let them know right from wrong.

So my question for you is not about the meaning of your text, but rather about your debating strategy: please explain how it is that you are not evading something you know to be true.

 

[expos4ever]

Acts 13 - GENTILES ask for more Gospel preaching "on the NEXT Sabbath"

Not compelling - it is easy to explain this without believing that the Gentiles all believed the Sabbath was still in force. And even if they did believe it was still in force, this does not mean that belief is correct.

Imagine a Gentile who, correctly in my view, believes the Sabbath is no longer in force. That Gentile still wants to hear preaching. And when does that preaching happen? On the Sabbath, of course. In other words, the fact that people were still treating the Sabbath as a special day is not evidence that it was, in fact, still in force.

 

[expos4ever]

Romans 7:6

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the [h]Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

This text, rather obviously, is a real challenge for those who maintain the Law is still in force. One poster, at least, has argued that to be "released from the Law" really means "to be released from the consequences of not following the law but still being obligated to follow it"

Hmmmm.

Do people ever actually use the concept "released from" in this way? Suppose I am told I am released from a contract to pave my neighbour's driveway. Would I then show up the next morning and start a-paving, believing that the only thing I have been released from is the penalty I would incur if I failed to complete the job? We all know the answer to this question.

And consider the notion of "no longer serving the oldness of the letter".

It is time for those would deny that this means we no longer need to follow the law to own their view: Please give us an example, any example of a statement where the concept of "not serving", used in relation to any kind of prescriptive code of behaviour, could possibly mean that we are still obliged to follow the code of behaviour at issue.

This should be interesting.