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Why the weekly Sabbath (Saturday) is the Lord's Day, in the Bible

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SabbathBlessings

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Notice "must shortly take place" and "the time is near".

It happened in the first century. What do you want to argue about, today?

Only if you believe the Second Coming of Jesus came and this is heaven…which means no more sin or tears and that sure continues to happen all around us…

Revelation 22: 12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

Still sticking with the scripture- the time is near, not that it happened.
 
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trophy33

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Only if you believe Jesus already came and this is heaven…which means no more sin or tears and that sure continues to happen all around us…

Revelation 22: 12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

Still sticking with the scripture- the time is near, not that it happened.
If you believe that it did not happen even after 2,000 years, then you are not truly believing what the text says - that those things must happen shortly.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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If you believe that it did not happen even after 2,000 years, then you are not truly believing what the text says - that those things must happen shortly.
A 1000 years is like a day to God, so it is shortly…… when we die our next conscious thought will be Jesus Coming in the clouds and that will seem like a second.
 
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trophy33

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A 1000 years is a day to God, so it is shortly…… when we die our next conscious thought will be Jesus Coming in the clouds and that will seem like a second.
Thats not what the book says. If you do not believe the text you posted, there is nothing more to talk about. We cannot take just what we like from it.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Thats not what the book says. If you do not believe the text you posted, there is nothing more to talk about. We cannot take just what we like from it.
Prove me wrong through scripture, again, we just see your words.
 
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trophy33

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Prove me wrong through scripture, again, we just see your words.
Its proven by your own scripture, you are just not willing to accept what the text says.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Its proven by your own scripture, you are just not willing to accept what the text says.
So this is heaven to you? I am sorry you believe this because God promises in heaven there will be no more sorrow or sin Revelation 21:4 so if you think mass murderers happening left and right is heaven, its not the God of the Bible heaven’s, but His adversary who wants you to think that.

Anyway, if you want to talk scriptures please do otherwise take care.
 
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trophy33

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So this is heaven to you? I am sorry you believe this because God promises in heaven there will be no more sorrow or sin Revelation 21:4 so if you think mass murderers happening left and right is heaven, its not the God of the Bible heaven’s, but His adversary who wants you to think that.

Anyway, if you want to talk scriptures please do otherwise take care.
What is heaven to me? Your question does not make sense.

If you do not want to take your own scriptures seriously, take care.
 
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expos4ever

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If you believe that it did not happen even after 2,000 years, then you are not truly believing what the text says - that those things must happen shortly.
Indeed, and again we see a common tactic being deployed - taking words from the lips of Paul / Jesus and doing great violence to their meaning and acting as if changing the meaning of words is somehow OK. Consider this from Matthew 24:

“Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”.......Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.


Just you watch what people will do with "this generation" - to fit their theology, they need to mangle it to mean something like "in 2000 years or more - many, many generations after this generation in fact - these things will come to pass".

With that kind of editorial licence, the sky is the limit.
 
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HIM

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Indeed, and again we see a common tactic being deployed - taking words from the lips of Paul / Jesus and doing great violence to their meaning and acting as if changing the meaning of words is somehow OK. Consider this from Matthew 24:

“Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”.......Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

Just you watch what people will do with "this generation" - to fit their theology, they need to mangle it to mean something like "in 2000 years or more - many, many generations after this generation in fact - these things will come to pass".

With that kind of editorial licence, the sky is the limit.
Wow you are edifying that by them...No limit huh?
 
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expos4ever

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Wow you are edifying that by them...No limit huh?
I have no idea what this sentence means. I believe my post was clear: people have to mangle "this generation" from Matt 24 to make those words fit with their belief that all the stuff in Matt 24 lies in the future.

But apart from such violence to the meaning of words, we know that these words.....

Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”...

....were indeed fulfilled in the first century - this is a rather obvious reference to the destruction of the Temple (70 AD).
 
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trophy33

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Indeed, and again we see a common tactic being deployed - taking words from the lips of Paul / Jesus and doing great violence to their meaning and acting as if changing the meaning of words is somehow OK. Consider this from Matthew 24:

“Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”.......Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

Just you watch what people will do with "this generation" - to fit their theology, they need to mangle it to mean something like "in 2000 years or more - many, many generations after this generation in fact - these things will come to pass".

With that kind of editorial licence, the sky is the limit.
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Rev 1:1

Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy...because the time is near.
Rev 1:3

God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must come to pass soon.
Rev 22:6

Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is near.
Rev 22:10

If somebody reads the book of Revelation as it is, without any prior doctrinal opinion, he must see that the events were imminent, not something that was supposed to happen after thousands of years.
 
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Clare73

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Actually it’s the opposite- going by what Jesus said in His own words the Sabbath was made for man- Mark 2:27….the Sabbath being made for man makes Jesus the Creator Gen 1:26 Gen 2:1-3 and Lord of the Sabbath Mark 2:28

Your version makes Jesus a created-being
Jesus of Nazareth the man was created.
a day and a commandment, which there is no scripture for or scripture stating one of the Ten Commandments was edited. Deut 4:2
Agreed. . .but Scripture has been presented, "exegeted" and demonstrated of the NT full-time Sabbath salvation rest of Heb 3:7-4:13 in Jesus Christ, from our own works to save, and in his work which saves (posts #69, #92-93, #104).
I will agree with you through in regards to Numbers 14 after reading it again that the Israelites refused to go into Canaan and was part of their disobedience in the wilderness along with defiling the Sabbath
That's good to see. . .
 
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Clare73

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I did not author the texts -- God did.

the good it specified for Adam and Eve had nothing at all to do with rescuing them from their sinful fallen condition as if that is how God created them.
God did not create Adam and Eve in a fallen condition.
In John 15 the vine is a type of Christ - but that does not mean that the vines in Eden predicted the fall of man and God's mission to rescue them. No such context existed for that in Eden.
Are you being careless, or do you just not understand?

What about vines would be a pattern of Christ?
Well, they have branches which are part of the vine (as the church is part of Christ ).
The ones which bear no fruit are cut off, while every branch that bears fruit is pruned so that it will bear more fruit
(as are those in the professing church).
Note that professing saving faith is not the same as possessing saving faith.

So what regarding the vines in Eden would be a pattern/prediction for the fall of man?

Your "analogy" regarding the vines in Eden is not analagous.
"you are the salt of the Earth" - we still use real salt
"I am the bread of life" John 6 -- we still use real bread.
You do not understand types.
That salt and bread are types does not mean they are not real. Are vines not real?
The type itself and its use (salt, bread, Saturday Sabbath have uses) has to be real or it can't be a pattern of anything else.

The book of revelation seas are a type of many-nations tribes tongues and people. But that is not what seas mean in Gen 1
The expanse and size of the seas are a type/pattern of the expanse and size of the many-nations tribes tongues and people.
The expanse and size of the seas have to be real in order for them to be a pattern of something else large and expansive.
 
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BobRyan

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God did not create Adam and Eve in a fallen condition.

Are you being careless, or do you just not understand?

What about vines would be a pattern of Christ?
Well, they have branches which are part of the vine (as the church is part of Christ ).
The ones which bear no fruit are cut off, while every branch that bears fruit is pruned so that it will bear more fruit
(as are those in the professing church).
Note that professing saving faith is not the same as possessing saving faith.
I don't think you are following the point.

I am not complaining about Christ's choice in John 15 to present himself as a vine - using the symbolism of a vine.

What I am saying is that even though he can use salt as a symbol saying "you are the salt of the earth"
Or using bread as a symbol in John 6 saying "I am the bread that came down out of heaven"
Or use a vine as a symbol in John 15 saying "I am the VINE you are branches" --

IT does not mean that with the coming of Jesus as the Messiah and His ascension to heaven - then we have no salt, or no vines, or no bread

So what regarding the vines in Eden would be a pattern/prediction for the fall of man?
nothing.

IN John 15 he cuts off the branches and burns them in the fire if they bear no fruit. Adam and Eve would be examples of ones that fell away - became lost and had to be saved by the gospel. But that did not "do away with vines" or branches . We still have them literally.
That salt and bread are types does not mean they are not real. Are vines not real?
The type itself and its use (salt, bread, Saturday Sabbath have uses) has to be real or it can't be a pattern of anything else.
They can be used to symbolize "something else". But they still remain.
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan and SabbathBlessings:

What is Paul saying in these words?:

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the [h]Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
Keep reading - Paul says even in his day - all mankind still condemned by the moral law of God pointing out that "all have sinned" Rom 3:23 - all need the gospel or else they are subject to that same death penalty that condemned all mankind from the very start. The second death. the Lake of fire in Rev 20.
Rom 3:19 - all mankind condemned under the Law - the whole world -- every mouth - held as guilty before God and under the death sentence as defined by God's law. So all need the gospel.​
Rom 7:
Or do you not know, brothers and sisters (for I am speaking to those who know the Law), that the Law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he is alive; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then, if while her husband is alive she gives herself to another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress if she gives herself to another man.​
4 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in regard to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were brought to light by the Law, were at work in the parts of our body to bear fruit for death.​
6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.​
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? Far from it! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.​
Freedom from slavery to sinning is the context for Romans 7 - as we see in Rom 6.
Rom 6:
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 Far from it! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for the one who has died is freed from sin.​
8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all time; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 So you too, consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.​
12 Therefore sin is not to reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the parts of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead, and your body’s parts as instruments of righteousness for God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the Law but under grace.​

Paul condemns sin -- not the Law of God

Rom 7:
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? Far from it! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by bringing about my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.​
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For I do not understand what I am doing; for I am not practicing what I want to do, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 However, if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, that the Law is good. 17 But now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that good does not dwell in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I do the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin that dwells in me.​
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully agree with the law of God in the inner person, 23 but I see a different law in the parts of my body waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin, the law which is in my body’s parts.​
Paul affirms God's Law in Rom 7 as good, and states he is in full agreement with God's Law. It is sin , the sinful nature - that Paul condemns in Rom 7. But he starts the chapter showing that the moral law of God condemns all humanity - even to this very day - as sinners doomed to slavery to sin and doomed to the lake of fire. So Paul makes the case for the Gospel where the NEW COVENANT of Jer 31:31-34 has the LAW of God written on the heart.
Specifically, why should we interpret the concept of being released from the Law

IT means - released from the condemnation under the Law - because in Rom 7 he says WE DIE (we suffer the death penalty as per the LAW) in Christ's death. Just as Rom 6 already stated. The LAW of God does not die in Rom 7 - we do.

So then - it is still a sin to take God's name in vain.

And in Rom 8 it is only the lost person that "does not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:4-11. Read it and tell us what you find there.
 
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BobRyan

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Only if you believe the Second Coming of Jesus came and this is heaven…which means no more sin or tears and that sure continues to happen all around us…

Revelation 22: 12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

Still sticking with the scripture- the time is near, not that it happened.
amen.

In fact 2Thess 2:1-5 Paul says not to be deceived into thinking that this has already happened.
 
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BobRyan

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... Rev 1:10 "Lord's day" -- the day of the week that John saw his vision. Already explained in Is 58:13 and Mark 2:28 for John's readers.

Some do say that - but if you are only looking for a Bible explanation as John's readers would have known it -- then we see that they would find in Is 58:13 that the weekly Sabbath is "The Holy day of the Lord" -- as God said "My Holy Day" and Christ said "the Son of Man is LORD of the Sabbath".

When John says "I was in the spirit ON the Lord's day" - it looks like a day of the week, not an age, not a period of years, and not in vision in the future.

IF he meant to say "I was in vision and there in vision I SAW the Day of the Lord" or "I saw the Lord's day" we would have some door open to us outside of the Is 58:13 context. But he did not say that. Rather he is speaking just as OT Prophets did who describe when/where they were when they saw a vision/dream. Just as Peter does in Acts 10

Acts 10:9 On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. 10 But he became hungry and wanted to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance; 11 and he *saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, 12 and on it were all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the sky. 13 A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!”​

That is what they call "Metadata" about the vision/dream. It gives time or place ... about the person at the time of the vision. It is not the vision talking about the roof top, or talking about the city, or saying it is almost lunch time.

Dan 8 -- Daniel gives metadata for the vision he is about to describe.

Dan 8: 1 In the third year of the reign of Belshazzar the king, a vision appeared to me, Daniel, subsequent to the one which appeared to me previously. 2 I looked in the vision, and while I was looking, I was in the citadel of Susa, which is in the province of Elam; and I looked in the vision, and I myself was beside the Ulai Canal. 3 Then I raised my eyes and looked, and behold, a ram which had two horns​

"Ulai was the Hebrew name for a river near the city of Susa"

Dan 7 metadata for the vision described in Dan 7 looks like this --
Dan 7: 1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel saw a dream and visions in his mind as he lay on his bed; then he wrote the dream down and told the following summary of it.​

I was in vision ON... is not a way to describe what was seen IN the vision. It is the non-vision background for the vision. Telling us where or when the vision was happening.

John gives metadata for his vision in Rev 1 like this

Rev 1:​
4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from Him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood— 6 and He made us into a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.​
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”​
9 I, John, your brother and fellow participant in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet, 11 saying, “Write on a scroll what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”​

Just as Luke does not inform his reader "The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week" in the book of Acts each time he mentions it (in Acts 13 and in Acts 17:1-5 and in Acts 13:8 for example) - so John does not quote Ex 20:8-11 or Is 58:13 for his "Lord's day" reference.
Which explains the title of this thread
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Jesus of Nazareth the man was created.
Jesus is not created, He is the Creator of all things Col 1:16 but came in human form to show us an example of how to live and sacrificed Himself for the forgiveness of sin when we repent and turn from sin (breaking God’s law Romans 7:7) Jesus also said He is Lord of the Sabbath Mark 2:28, not that He is the Sabbath.
Agreed. . .but Scripture has been presented, "exegeted" and demonstrated of the NT full-time Sabbath salvation rest of Heb 3:7-4:13 in Jesus Christ, from our own works to save, and in his work which saves (posts #69, #92-93, #104).
There is no scripture that Jesus is the Sabbath and pointing to 2 chapters in the Bible and claiming its there, but not pointing to a specific verse that says Jesus is the Sabbath is not a convincing argument…. But we have these Words- written and spoken by God that He said cannot be altered- the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10 and the Sabbath is My holy day Isaiah 58:13. and commanded us to Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy Exodus 20:8 because we were made in the image of God to follow His example who rested on the seventh day Sabbath Genesis 2:1-3 Hebrews 4:4

Hebrews 4:10 clearly speaks of two rests, Christ rest and the Sabbath rest and tells us how to receive Christ rest, which is not by being disobedient to God and His commandments.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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If you believe that it did not happen even after 2,000 years, then you are not truly believing what the text says - that those things must happen shortly.
Time is relative. What seems like a long time for us, is not for God.

These are all things we have to look forward to…

Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.


Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

We either believe the Bible and the scriptures and Jesus has not come yet because He said no one will die, there will be no more pain or sorrow- is that what you see around you? Or I guess we can believe something else.

Revelation 21:4 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”


 
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