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Christian Viewpoint On The Gun Debate

dogs4thewin

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I've known of pacifists who are against killing or the use of force even in self defense. As far as they're concerned the only use for weapons is for use against animals, such as if you're going hunting.

The difference is that with abortion you're killing an innocent baby whereas with execution you're talking about somebody who has had a chance at life and blown it.
I do not believe in the death penalty either ( but that is for another thread) If you kill someone while they are in the act of committing an act of violence that is fine, but I do oppose the death penalty once the person is caught and incarcerated.
 
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Photon Guy

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So if I hunted big game with tomahawk missiles, they should also be available?
It wouldn't make sense to hunt game with tomahawk missiles, big or small. There would be no game left.
Justifying hunting is one thing; the tools available to do it with is another entirely.
And guns are good and effective tools for hunting, there is no reason people shouldn't hunt with guns.
 
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Photon Guy

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I would be willing to surrender my gun if the government were willing to accept responsibility for protecting me and my family.
Bad idea.

TURN IN YOUR GUNS: The Government will Take Care of You!
 
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dogs4thewin

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RDKirk

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My comment was based on my experiences in countries that had tough gun laws but were also quite safe countries for cultural reasons.

That really won't work in the US--and my comment was intended to be ironic to that extent--because the US government won't and can't make such a guarantee. As to your point, that's never been in the fiber of America.
 
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Photon Guy

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but the question is I think the poster is asking is in some cases how do you know who is who?
All too often they will know but not do anything about it. James Eagan Holmes who shot up a movie theater and killed a bunch of people in 2012 would apparently hear "nail ghosts" pounding on the wall at night as a chid, he obviously was not right in the head. Adam Lanza who committed the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, they knew there was something wrong with him but he was not committed as he should've been. Nikolas Cruz who committed the Parkland high school shooting in 2018 had a history of behavioral issues before the shooting but nothing was done about it. The recent shooting at the Nashville Christian school was done by somebody we know had issues and they were a trans so that should say something.

All too often we know somebody is not right in the head and do nothing about it. If we did their victims would still be alive.
 
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Photon Guy

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but then again if the government completely disarmed themselves they would not have the arms either.
Alright if you want to do it that way, any kind of gun control that applies to the citizens should have to apply to the police and military as well. If the citizens can't have guns the police and military can't have guns either, that's only fair. Any kind of gun that should be banned from citizens would also have to be banned from the police and military. To have it otherwise would be a double standard.
 
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RDKirk

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Do you know what an assault weapon is? The guns that are labelled as assault weapons function the same way most hunting rifles do with one shot per pull of the trigger, they just have certain cosmetic features that make them look like they might be used in warfare even though they're not.
To be honest, those "cosmetic" features do increase the combat capability of the gun above the level of other semi-automatic rifles.

Sure, the receiver of an AR-15 style rifle isn't much different in combat capability from the receiver of a Ruger Mini-14, but by the time you've added a large-capacity magazine and other implements, it's a significantly better weapon for the purpose of assaulting human beings.

Those "cosmetic" features exist on combat weapons because they do make a difference in combat. Otherwise the Army could just use a fully automatic Mini-14.
 
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dogs4thewin

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All too often they will know but not do anything about it. James Eagan Holmes who shot up a movie theater and killed a bunch of people in 2012 would apparently hear "nail ghosts" pounding on the wall at night as a chid, he obviously was not right in the head. Adam Lanza who committed the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, they knew there was something wrong with him but he was not committed as he should've been. Nikolas Cruz who committed the Parkland high school shooting in 2018 had a history of behavioral issues before the shooting but nothing was done about it. The recent shooting at the Nashville Christian school was done by somebody we know had issues and they were a trans so that should say something.

All too often we know somebody is not right in the head and do nothing about it. If we did their victims would still be alive.
yes, I agree, but at the same time that one requires someone speaking up (in many cases.) In other words even if someone knows, but they do not say anything to someone who can actually do anything about it it will not work. It (in most cases) is not illegal to know something even for a FACT and not say anything. You also run the risk of someone telling on someone with the wrong motives and that can be an issue.
 
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Photon Guy

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To be honest, those "cosmetic" features do increase the combat capability of the gun above the level of other semi-automatic rifles.

Sure, the receiver of an AR-15 style rifle isn't much different in combat capability from the receiver of a Ruger Mini-14, but by the time you've added a large-capacity magazine and other implements, it's a significantly better weapon for the purpose of assaulting human beings.
First of all you've got to define what a large-capacity magazine is. One could say that a magazine that holds two bullets is "large-capacity" because maybe magazines should not be able to hold more than one round, according to some people. If you're talking about the magazines that hold thirty rounds, those are your "standard capacity" magazines as those are the magazines that the rifle comes with when you buy it.

BTW any magazine that fits in an AR-15 style rifle will also fit in most semi automatic hunting rifles of the same caliber, regardless of how many rounds it holds.
Those "cosmetic" features exist on combat weapons because they do make a difference in combat. Otherwise the Army could just use a fully automatic Mini-14.
Cosmetic features means stuff such as adjustable stocks, which makes sense because people come in different shapes and sizes and as such they might need to adjust the stock before using the rifle, yet having an adjustable stock as opposed to a non adjustable stock can qualify a rifle as an "assault weapon" by some definitions.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Yes there is that argument that weapons should never be used on people, but guns are still used for hunting so that's why it's wrong for Christians to be against guns period.

Can a Christian be in favor of gun reform and gun regulation to help mitigate against the misuse of guns?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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FireDragon76

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Do you know what an assault weapon is? The guns that are labelled as assault weapons function the same way most hunting rifles do with one shot per pull of the trigger, they just have certain cosmetic features that make them look like they might be used in warfare even though they're not.

Pistol grips aren't a mere cosmetic feature.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Can a Christian be in favor of gun reform and gun regulation to help mitigate against the misuse of guns?

-CryptoLutheran
that gets tricky simply because where does it stop? This is particularly true with SO many guns where there WILL at the very least be a MAJOR black market.
 
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ViaCrucis

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that gets tricky simply because where does it stop?

That sounds like textbook slippery slope fallacy.

This is particularly true with SO many guns where there WILL at the very least be a MAJOR black market.

Do you agree that it is preferable to lessen evil even if we cannot completely eliminate it? Or should we not bother with mitigating against evil at all if we can't eliminate it altogether?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Niels

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The difference is that with abortion you're killing an innocent baby whereas with execution you're talking about somebody who has had a chance at life and blown it.
As long as we have the death penalty, innocent people will continue to be put to death for crimes that they did not commit. This happens when people are wrongly convicted. The question is how many innocent lives are you willing to sacrifice in the process, because there will be some.
 
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Aldebaran

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As long as we have the death penalty, innocent people will continue to be put to death for crimes that they did not commit. This happens when people are wrongly convicted. The question is how many innocent lives are you willing to sacrifice in the process, because there will be some.
That's more of an issue with the trial process than the penalty. Otherwise, we would be just as likely to get rid of jails and prisons for the same reason. IMO, the entire process is far too complex, expensive, and flawed.
 
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dogs4thewin

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That's more of an issue with the trial process than the penalty. Otherwise, we would be just as likely to get rid of jails and prisons for the same reason. IMO, the entire process is far too complex, expensive, and flawed.
but sense people never will be perfect the safest option is not to have the penalty because it is like that for the reason of trying to ensure no one is wrongly put to death.
 
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Photon Guy

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yes, I agree, but at the same time that one requires someone speaking up (in many cases.) In other words even if someone knows, but they do not say anything to someone who can actually do anything about it it will not work. It (in most cases) is not illegal to know something even for a FACT and not say anything. You also run the risk of someone telling on someone with the wrong motives and that can be an issue.
They knew something was wrong with Adam Lanza and they had tried to have him committed but for whatever reason he wasn't. That was the problem, he wasn't committed as he should've been.
 
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Photon Guy

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Can a Christian be in favor of gun reform and gun regulation to help mitigate against the misuse of guns?

-CryptoLutheran
Depends on what kind of gun reform and regulation we're talking about, if a Christian should be in support of it or not.
 
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