the Latin versus the Teutonic Brain

[Ligurian]

All this time, and they've still not show how there's a Teutonic race and a Latin race.

It's almost as if... they can't.

It's actually like I already did but you never noticed it... twice... in posts #29 and #46.

Here, let me show you exact quotes:

"According to Tacitus's biography of Agricola, the Silures usually had a dark complexion and curly hair. Due to their appearance, Tacitus believed they had crossed over from Spain at an earlier date.

Silures - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Tacitus in his Agricola, chapter XI (c. 98 AD) described the Caledonians as red haired and large limbed, which he considered features of Germanic origin: “The reddish (rutilae) hair and large limbs of the Caledonians proclaim a German origin”."

Caledonians - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The original Latins were a Mediterranean-type... as the Silurians, Ligurians and Pelasgians. The indigenous Ligurians and migrating Pelasgians from Arcadia teamed up against the invading Umbrians (a Gaulish people).
(Ridgeway, Who Were the Romans; Peet, The Stone and Bronze Ages in Italy and Sicily, etc., etc.)

"The simple step of a courageous individual is not to take part in the lie."
--Alexander Solzhenitsyn

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

It's actually like I already did but you never noticed it... twice... in posts #29 and #46.

Here, let me show you exact quotes:

"According to Tacitus's biography of Agricola, the Silures usually had a dark complexion and curly hair. Due to their appearance, Tacitus believed they had crossed over from Spain at an earlier date.

Silures - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Tacitus in his Agricola, chapter XI (c. 98 AD) described the Caledonians as red haired and large limbed, which he considered features of Germanic origin: “The reddish (rutilae) hair and large limbs of the Caledonians proclaim a German origin”."

Caledonians - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The original Latins were a Mediterranean-type... as the Silurians, Ligurians and Pelasgians. The indigenous Ligurians and migrating Pelasgians from Arcadia teamed up against the invading Umbrians (a Gaulish people).
(Ridgeway, Who Were the Romans; Peet, The Stone and Bronze Ages in Italy and Sicily, etc., etc.)

"The simple step of a courageous individual is not to take part in the lie."
--Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Except that that isn't showing them as different races. Those are just descriptions of the people. Nowhere are you actually showing HOW they're different races.

Again, you're just using outdated sources (TACITUS! Can't get more outdated than that!) to put forth bad-faith and racist arguments.

 

[Ligurian]

It's actually like I already did but you never noticed it... twice... in posts #29 and #46.

Here, let me show you exact quotes:

"According to Tacitus's biography of Agricola, the Silures usually had a dark complexion and curly hair. Due to their appearance, Tacitus believed they had crossed over from Spain at an earlier date.

Silures - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Tacitus in his Agricola, chapter XI (c. 98 AD) described the Caledonians as red haired and large limbed, which he considered features of Germanic origin: “The reddish (rutilae) hair and large limbs of the Caledonians proclaim a German origin”."

Caledonians - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The original Latins were a Mediterranean-type... as the Silurians, Ligurians and Pelasgians. The indigenous Ligurians and migrating Pelasgians from Arcadia teamed up against the invading Umbrians (a Gaulish people).
(Ridgeway, Who Were the Romans; Peet, The Stone and Bronze Ages in Italy and Sicily, etc., etc.)

"The simple step of a courageous individual is not to take part in the lie."
--Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Maps of mtDNA haplogroups in and around Europe

Distribution maps of mitochondrial haplogroups in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa.

www.eupedia.com

I think that the areas of greatest concentration isn't where they spread to, but where they came from. Migration often happens because of overcrowding; it makes no sense to leave the motherland and go be crowded somewhere else.

Except that that isn't showing them as different races. Those are just descriptions of the people. Nowhere are you actually showing HOW they're different races.

Again, you're just using outdated sources (TACITUS! Can't get more outdated than that!) to put forth bad-faith and racist arguments.

What does "bad-faith" mean to you?

Are you one of those people who could be robbed by a tall, pale, natural-blonde white woman, and not be able to give any description to the police?

____________________________
Anthropology

"The Cornish are generally dark in hair and often in eye: they are decidedly the darkest people in England proper; they resemble the Scottish Highlanders in their warmth of colouring..."--Beddoe,1885
The races of Britain; a contribution to the anthropology of Western Europe : Beddoe, John

"It is clear, however, from the pages of Caesar and Tacitus that at the time of the Roman conquest there were at least two distinct peoples in Britain— the tall, fair-haired, blue-eyed Celt, identical with the Gallic tribes, and the dark-complexioned, wavy-haired South Welshmen (Silures), who are compared by Tacitus to the Iberi of Spain. This comparison is now amply justified by a visit to most Welsh towns on a market day—say Denbigh or St. Asaph—where the small dark Welshman is to be seen identical in everything but dress and speech with the small dark Basque of the Western Pyrenees, both French and Spanish. We need not, however, go so far as the Pyrenees to find people identical with the small dark Welsh. The small dark Irish of the south-west of Ireland, the small dark Highlander of Scotland, and the dark inhabitants of Devon and Cornwall are physically of the same race."--Dawkins, 1889
The Place of the Welsh in the History of Britain : William Boyd Dawkins

"Our subsequent separation from Europe has preserved a genetic time capsule of southwestern Europe during the ice age, which we share most closely with the former ice-age refuge in the Basque country."
--Oppenheimer, Myths of British Ancestry
Stephen Oppenheimer: Myths of British Ancestry | History News Network

==========================
Only if you don't know Ancient History, and can't tell red-blonde from wavy-black, would you ever get them mixed up.

Germans
Germanic peoples - Wikipedia
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/1st_century_Germani.png

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Maps of mtDNA haplogroups in and around Europe

Distribution maps of mitochondrial haplogroups in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa.

www.eupedia.com

I think that the areas of greatest concentration isn't where they spread to, but where they came from. Migration often happens because of overcrowding; it makes no sense to leave the motherland and go be crowded somewhere else.



What does "bad-faith" mean to you?

Are you one of those people who could be robbed by a tall, pale, natural-blonde white woman, and not be able to give any description to the police?

____________________________
Anthropology

"The Cornish are generally dark in hair and often in eye: they are decidedly the darkest people in England proper; they resemble the Scottish Highlanders in their warmth of colouring..."--Beddoe,1885
The races of Britain; a contribution to the anthropology of Western Europe : Beddoe, John

"It is clear, however, from the pages of Caesar and Tacitus that at the time of the Roman conquest there were at least two distinct peoples in Britain— the tall, fair-haired, blue-eyed Celt, identical with the Gallic tribes, and the dark-complexioned, wavy-haired South Welshmen (Silures), who are compared by Tacitus to the Iberi of Spain. This comparison is now amply justified by a visit to most Welsh towns on a market day—say Denbigh or St. Asaph—where the small dark Welshman is to be seen identical in everything but dress and speech with the small dark Basque of the Western Pyrenees, both French and Spanish. We need not, however, go so far as the Pyrenees to find people identical with the small dark Welsh. The small dark Irish of the south-west of Ireland, the small dark Highlander of Scotland, and the dark inhabitants of Devon and Cornwall are physically of the same race."--Dawkins, 1889
The Place of the Welsh in the History of Britain : William Boyd Dawkins

"Our subsequent separation from Europe has preserved a genetic time capsule of southwestern Europe during the ice age, which we share most closely with the former ice-age refuge in the Basque country."
--Oppenheimer, Myths of British Ancestry
Stephen Oppenheimer: Myths of British Ancestry | History News Network

==========================
Only if you don't know Ancient History, and can't tell red-blonde from wavy-black, would you ever get them mixed up.

Germans
Germanic peoples - Wikipedia
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/1st_century_Germani.png

I question it because you never explain how European groups are separate races, only going on in explaining what they look like on average, which is virtually worthless. And THAT'S ALL you focus on: physical differences. And I will still call you out on using outdate sources since you seem to only want to use sources from the late 19th and early 20th century, and beyond that, to back up your claims.

You haven't done a bloody thing to prove to me that there is a Teutonic race and a Latin race, and the only thing you've proved to me is that you like to use racist arguments.

 

[Ligurian]

I question it because you never explain how European groups are separate races, only going on in explaining what they look like on average, which is virtually worthless. And THAT'S ALL you focus on: physical differences. And I will still call you out on using outdate sources since you seem to only want to use sources from the late 19th and early 20th century, and beyond that, to back up your claims.

You haven't done a bloody thing to prove to me that there is a Teutonic race and a Latin race, and the only thing you've proved to me is that you like to use racist arguments.

Except Germans aren't Europeans.* They invaded Europe.

There were Iberian-Ligurians in Western Europe. They're a Mediterranean people that used to cover Spain and Portugal, and France, through half of Italy. Peet says the Ligurians were to Italy what the Iberians were to the Spanish Peninsula... (except the ancients say the Ligurians were an Iberian tribe). Cunliffe quotes Avienus and says the Celts took lands from the Ligurians. The Ligurians had Aurignation-burials in what is still called the Ligurian-Riveria... Cro-Magnons were there. The Cro-Magnon mtdna genome hasn't changed in 28,000 years.

Archaeology
Cave Hunting-Researches on the Evidence of Caves Respecting the Early Inhabitants of Europe

The Project Gutenberg eBook of Cave Hunting, by W. Boyd Dawkins.

____________________________________
* Migration Period, Barbarian Invasions...
"The term refers to the important role played by the migration, invasion, and settlement of various tribes, notably the Franks, Goths, Alemanni, Alans, Huns, early Slavs, Pannonian Avars, Magyars, and Bulgars within or into the former Western Empire and Eastern Europe. The period is traditionally taken to have begun in AD 375 (possibly as early as 300) and ended in 568.[2]"
Migration Period - Wikipedia

Indo-Iranians - Wikipedia

Hephthalites - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Hans Blaster]

Except Germans aren't Europeans.* They invaded Europe.

[snip]

____________________________________
* Migration Period, Barbarian Invasions...
"The term refers to the important role played by the migration, invasion, and settlement of various tribes, notably the Franks, Goths, Alemanni,

These are Germanic groups:

The Franks are from the Rhine (which is in Europe)
The Goths trace back to southern Sweden and then migrate to the northern edge of the Black Sea (all in Europe)
The Alemanni are from the upper Rhine (also in Europe)

Alans, Huns, early Slavs, Pannonian Avars, Magyars, and Bulgar

None of these are Germanic groups

s within or into the former Western Empire and Eastern Europe. The period is traditionally taken to have begun in AD 375 (possibly as early as 300) and ended in 568.[2]"
Migration Period - Wikipedia

Indo-Iranians - Wikipedia

Hephthalites - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

(German isn't an Indo-Iranian language either).

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Except Germans aren't Europeans.* They invaded Europe.

There were Iberian-Ligurians in Western Europe. They're a Mediterranean people that used to cover Spain and Portugal, and France, through half of Italy. Peet says the Ligurians were to Italy what the Iberians were to the Spanish Peninsula... (except the ancients say the Ligurians were an Iberian tribe). Cunliffe quotes Avienus and says the Celts took lands from the Ligurians. The Ligurians had Aurignation-burials in what is still called the Ligurian-Riveria... Cro-Magnons were there. The Cro-Magnon mtdna genome hasn't changed in 28,000 years.

Archaeology
Cave Hunting-Researches on the Evidence of Caves Respecting the Early Inhabitants of Europe

The Project Gutenberg eBook of Cave Hunting, by W. Boyd Dawkins.

____________________________________
* Migration Period, Barbarian Invasions...
"The term refers to the important role played by the migration, invasion, and settlement of various tribes, notably the Franks, Goths, Alemanni, Alans, Huns, early Slavs, Pannonian Avars, Magyars, and Bulgars within or into the former Western Empire and Eastern Europe. The period is traditionally taken to have begun in AD 375 (possibly as early as 300) and ended in 568.[2]"
Migration Period - Wikipedia

Indo-Iranians - Wikipedia

Hephthalites - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As has been pointed out to you, the Franks, Goths and Alemanni are Germanic groups. Those groups were Germans, the groups that followed them became Germans.

For all your bluster and arrogance, you are woefully ignorant of the subject matter you talk about. And you've STILL not shown at all how there is a Teutonic race or a Latin race.

 

[Ligurian]

As has been pointed out to you, the Franks, Goths and Alemanni are Germanic groups. Those groups were Germans, the groups that followed them became Germans.

Big-Pale Germans are just a johnny-came-lately ... to the Small-Dark Indigenous-Europeans.
People moving into North Carolina don't automatically get to call themselves Cherokee.

Because some people are able to see that all men are not carbon-copies; to them Germans don't look Mediterranean.

"Intellect is that power by which we understand simple self-evident truths, called axioms, and are able to pass into contact with ideas themselves."--Sallust, On the Gods and the World

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Big-Pale Germans are just a johnny-came-lately ... to the Small-Dark Indigenous-Europeans.
People moving into North Carolina don't automatically get to call themselves Cherokee.

Because some people are able to see that all men are not carbon-copies; to them Germans don't look Mediterranean.

"Intellect is that power by which we understand simple self-evident truths, called axioms, and are able to pass into contact with ideas themselves."--Sallust, On the Gods and the World

Now that's a very spurious comment because the invasion of Cherokee by European settlers in the 18th and 19th century is not the same as the migration of settlers of pre-Neolithic Anatolia nearly 10,000 years ago. That period of time, nearly 10 millennia, definitely means that the present German population is native to Europe.

If that makes them 'Johnny come latlies' then I have no idea what you're standard is. You don't even seem to have a standard.

And stop quoting media, it doesn't mean squat to me, except showing that you can quote media.

 

[Ligurian]

migration of settlers of pre-Neolithic Anatolia nearly 10,000 years ago. That period of time, nearly 10 millennia, definitely means that the present German population is native to Europe.

The blue-eyed, red-haired Thracians are probably what you're talking about... right?

But "Anatolia" means "the East" in Greek... it's not really part of Europe. But people get sloppy about it, these days... as if definitions aren't really "laws" but only "suggestions". Spelling will become a free-for-all, too, as the world devolves...

"Writing in the sixth century BC, Xenophanes described Thracians as "blue-eyed and red-haired".[3]
The exact origin of Thracians is unknown, but it is believed that proto-Thracians descended from a purported mixture of Proto-Indo-Europeans and Early European Farmers, arriving from the rest of Asia and Africa through the Asia Minor (Anatolia).[4] The proto-Thracian culture developed into the Dacian, Getae, and several other smaller Thracian cultures."
From the above webpage:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/SeuthesIII_tumba_Kazanlâk_0771a.jpg
That guy sure looks Germanic to me.
And so does this "Dying Gaul" statue...

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/12/13/article-2523001-1A0FFD3000000578-447_634x438.jpg

But the Pelasgian Minoans sure don't:
https://cdn.britannica.com/s:700x45...palace-Crete-Knossos-Heraklion-c-1375-bce.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/71/4e/43/714e43306d9ed79fd929b1584b2e030b.jpg
Some say that these Minoans look like the old French did.

Here's the thing... Thrace was inhabited by Pelasgians, first... before the Thracians came.

Fascinating article... only 18 pages:

"The tide of invasion, even Indo-European, has not always set in the same direction across the straits between Europe and Asia, but from the dawn of history has swung to and fro. A confederate migration (which should include elements incorporated in the Lydian and adjacent peoples), passing south of the Caspian and the Euxine to the Aegean and beyond, becomes a more and more tenable proposition as our knowledge of the Eastern nations grows. The Briges, Dardanians, Mygdones, on or west of the Axius, and the Moesians (if accepted as Mysians) might have been left behind by not the flowing but the ebbing tide, as Turks still remain after the Ottoman retreat. The 'Thracians in Asia' may have been driven from their homes on the Strymon by Teucrians and Mysians (Hdt. vii. 75), and then chased them back over the Bosporus. A conquest of Thrace from the Asiatic side in the (say) fifteenth century B.C. need excite no more surprise than the Thracian conquest of Bithynia in the twelfth.
Is the coincidence of the Pelasgian territory with that subjugated by the Mysians and Teucrians a mere coincidence, or is there any other evidence of association or affinity between the Pelasgians and those peoples? Some partnership may be surmised in the appearance or reappearance of bands of Teucrians and Mysians and Phrygians on the move in the Hellespontine region soon after the fall of Troy (Hdt. v. 122, vii. 43; Strabo, 565, 572, 680, mainly following Xanthus Lydus); they may be supposed to have shared in the debacle, which we have put at about that date, of the last Pelasgian realm in Thrace. But this synchronism is not precise and might be explained away as a mere coincidence in time." p.126-127
The journal of Hellenic studies : Vol. LIV

(see Crossland, Immigrants From The North, Cambridge Ancient History)
(see The Coming of the Greeks, Indo-European Conquests in the Aegean and the Near East, by Robert Drews)

_______________________________
I post references for people who don't want to take my word for it.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The blue-eyed, red-haired Thracians are probably what you're talking about... right?

No, it's pretty clear that Warden was talking of *Germans* and 10,000 years ago, not various peoples in and around the Agean 3000 years ago (or less).

So this:

But "Anatolia" means "the East" in Greek... it's not really part of Europe. But people get sloppy about it, these days... as if definitions aren't really "laws" but only "suggestions". Spelling will become a free-for-all, too, as the world devolves...

"Writing in the sixth century BC, Xenophanes described Thracians as "blue-eyed and red-haired".[3]
The exact origin of Thracians is unknown, but it is believed that proto-Thracians descended from a purported mixture of Proto-Indo-Europeans and Early European Farmers, arriving from the rest of Asia and Africa through the Asia Minor (Anatolia).[4] The proto-Thracian culture developed into the Dacian, Getae, and several other smaller Thracian cultures."
From the above webpage:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/SeuthesIII_tumba_Kazanlâk_0771a.jpg
That guy sure looks Germanic to me.
And so does this "Dying Gaul" statue...

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/12/13/article-2523001-1A0FFD3000000578-447_634x438.jpg

But the Pelasgian Minoans sure don't:
https://cdn.britannica.com/s:700x45...palace-Crete-Knossos-Heraklion-c-1375-bce.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/71/4e/43/714e43306d9ed79fd929b1584b2e030b.jpg
Some say that these Minoans look like the old French did.

Here's the thing... Thrace was inhabited by Pelasgians, first... before the Thracians came.

Fascinating article... only 18 pages:

"The tide of invasion, even Indo-European, has not always set in the same direction across the straits between Europe and Asia, but from the dawn of history has swung to and fro. A confederate migration (which should include elements incorporated in the Lydian and adjacent peoples), passing south of the Caspian and the Euxine to the Aegean and beyond, becomes a more and more tenable proposition as our knowledge of the Eastern nations grows. The Briges, Dardanians, Mygdones, on or west of the Axius, and the Moesians (if accepted as Mysians) might have been left behind by not the flowing but the ebbing tide, as Turks still remain after the Ottoman retreat. The 'Thracians in Asia' may have been driven from their homes on the Strymon by Teucrians and Mysians (Hdt. vii. 75), and then chased them back over the Bosporus. A conquest of Thrace from the Asiatic side in the (say) fifteenth century B.C. need excite no more surprise than the Thracian conquest of Bithynia in the twelfth.
Is the coincidence of the Pelasgian territory with that subjugated by the Mysians and Teucrians a mere coincidence, or is there any other evidence of association or affinity between the Pelasgians and those peoples? Some partnership may be surmised in the appearance or reappearance of bands of Teucrians and Mysians and Phrygians on the move in the Hellespontine region soon after the fall of Troy (Hdt. v. 122, vii. 43; Strabo, 565, 572, 680, mainly following Xanthus Lydus); they may be supposed to have shared in the debacle, which we have put at about that date, of the last Pelasgian realm in Thrace. But this synchronism is not precise and might be explained away as a mere coincidence in time." p.126-127
The journal of Hellenic studies : Vol. LIV

(see Crossland, Immigrants From The North, Cambridge Ancient History)
(see The Coming of the Greeks, Indo-European Conquests in the Aegean and the Near East, by Robert Drews)

Is irrelevant.

_______________________________
I post references for people who don't want to take my word for it.

Still doesn't make it relevant or interesting.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

The blue-eyed, red-haired Thracians are probably what you're talking about... right?

As Han Blaster pointed out, that's not what I said at all.

Here's what I said:

Now that's a very spurious comment because the invasion of Cherokee by European settlers in the 18th and 19th century is not the same as the migration of settlers of pre-Neolithic Anatolia nearly 10,000 years ago. That period of time, nearly 10 millennia, definitely means that the present German population is native to Europe.

If that makes them 'Johnny come latlies' then I have no idea what you're standard is. You don't even seem to have a standard.

And stop quoting media, it doesn't mean squat to me, except showing that you can quote media.

Nothing about Thracians, who's culture only began in the 4th century BC, are not mentioned at all.

I clearly pointed out the migration of settlers from pre-Neolithic Anatolia nearly 10,000 years ago.

Now that's a big difference, and that big difference also means that, by any standard of how you look at it, Germans are natives to Europe.

But nowhere does it, or anything you stated or showed, support your claim that Germans are a separate race to the Latins, or that even the European nationalities or ethnic cultures can be typified or classed as races.

 

[Ligurian]

"Writing in the sixth century BC, Xenophanes described Thracians as "blue-eyed and red-haired".[3] The exact origin of Thracians is unknown, but it is believed that proto-Thracians descended from a purported mixture of Proto-Indo-Europeans and Early European Farmers, arriving from the rest of Asia and Africa through the Asia Minor (Anatolia).[4] The proto-Thracian culture developed into the Dacian, Getae, and several other smaller Thracian cultures."
_______________________________
I post references for people who don't just take my word for it.

"A conventional date of c. 1180 BC is often used for the influx (traditionally from Thrace) of the pre-Phrygian Bryges or Mushki, corresponding to the very end of the Hittite Empire."
Phrygians - Wikipedia
Bryges - Wikipedia
Allobroges - Wikipedia
Tolistobogii - Wikipedia
Tectosages - Wikipedia

Germans are natives to Europe.

What does the word "Germans" mean to you? Anyone who speaks a Germanic Language?

_____________________
https://www.historyoftheancientworl...ads/2012/07/Routes_of_Barbarian_Invasions.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/df/fb/51/dffb51d0262ce308e11458611aafc1fd.jpg

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

"A conventional date of c. 1180 BC is often used for the influx (traditionally from Thrace) of the pre-Phrygian Bryges or Mushki, corresponding to the very end of the Hittite Empire."
Phrygians - Wikipedia
Bryges - Wikipedia
Allobroges - Wikipedia
Tolistobogii - Wikipedia
Tectosages - Wikipedia



What does the word "Germans" mean to you? Anyone who speaks a Germanic Language?

_____________________
https://www.historyoftheancientworl...ads/2012/07/Routes_of_Barbarian_Invasions.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/df/fb/51/dffb51d0262ce308e11458611aafc1fd.jpg

You type so much in an attempt to look smart but you clearly know nothing about what you're talking about.

The history of Germany is well documented and you can easily look up when people arrived in what is now Germany. People have existed in Germany for thousands of years, in your very first map, you show that groups came from historical Germany: the Lombards, the Saxons, the Vandals.

And yet you choose to blatantly ignore what I say and focus on groups that clearly aren't even connected to Germany at all.

You have a fetish for the Thracians, as your original post said (I still have the e-mail of what it looked like before you changed it) and a weird drive to say that the German people are anything BUT European. You are a WEIRD kind of racist.

I also 'love' how you actually ignored everything else I said in the post to focus on five words from it. Real class act from you. Very clear that you're a sincere and honest debater.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I see you decided to very blatantly and dishonesty ignore what I said in post #72, Ligurian.

Again: class act from you.

 

[Ligurian]

Now that's a big difference, and that big difference also means that, by any standard of how you look at it, Germans are natives to Europe.

The history of Germany is well documented and you can easily look up when people arrived in what is now Germany. People have existed in Germany for thousands of years, in your very first map, you show that groups came from historical Germany: the Lombards, the Saxons, the Vandals.

They didn't come FROM Germany, they came TO Germany.

"In the most ancient Greek Historians, the German Nations lie concealed,
partly under the Name of Scythians, and partly under that of Celtae..."
--Mascou,
"The History of the Ancient Germans
Including that of the Cimbri, Celtae, Teutones, Alemanni, Saxons,
And other Ancient Northern Nations,
Who overthrew the ROMAN EMPIRE, and established that
of the Germans, and most of the Kingdoms of Europe." Volume 1
The History Of The Ancient Germans - John Jacob Mascou

"The Cimmerians lived on the steppes north of the Black Sea until they were driven from their homeland by the Scythians, who had themselves been driven from their own homeland in Central Asia by the nomadic Massagetae."--Herodotus

______________________
Debate the words, don't slander the character of the poster.
What you choose to think about the poster adds nothing to the debate ...except flames... which is disallowed in this forum.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

They didn't come FROM Germany, they came TO Germany.

"In the most ancient Greek Historians, the German Nations lie concealed,
partly under the Name of Scythians, and partly under that of Celtae..."
--Mascou,
"The History of the Ancient Germans
Including that of the Cimbri, Celtae, Teutones, Alemanni, Saxons,
And other Ancient Northern Nations,
Who overthrew the ROMAN EMPIRE, and established that
of the Germans, and most of the Kingdoms of Europe." Volume 1
The History Of The Ancient Germans - John Jacob Mascou

"The Cimmerians lived on the steppes north of the Black Sea until they were driven from their homeland by the Scythians, who had themselves been driven from their own homeland in Central Asia by the nomadic Massagetae."--Herodotus

______________________
Debate the words, don't slander the character of the poster.
What you choose to think about the poster adds nothing to the debate ...except flames... which is disallowed in this forum.

First off, if you're going to quote me, quote me in full, don't just do parts and snippets. It's rude and dishonest.

Secondly, you're just wrong. People were already living in Germany before the Scythians and the Cimmerians came about as cultures. That's a historical fact. Your claims that people came to Germany around the same time as the Barbarian conquests of Roman lands is disproven by the history, and also contradictory to what you yourself have said in your own posts.

And thirdly, using ancient writers and writers from before the 20th century does nothing. Those people are not experts in their fields and have also been disproven by genetics, archaeology and actual historical events too. You quoting them does nothing to support your claims.

 

[Ligurian]

First off, if you're going to quote me, quote me in full,

Sounds like an ego problem.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Sounds like an ego problem.

Very cute. Very becoming of you...

Still not made a single attempt to explain how there is a Teutonic race and a Latin race. You just saying "They look different!" and using incredibly outdated sources and outmoded views does not equal evidence for your claim.

 

[Ligurian]

People were already living in Germany before the Scythians and the Cimmerians came about as cultures. That's a historical fact. Your claims that people came to Germany around the same time as the Barbarian conquests of Roman lands is disproven by the history, and also contradictory to what you yourself have said in your own posts.

And thirdly, using ancient writers and writers from before the 20th century does nothing. Those people are not experts in their fields and have also been disproven by genetics, archaeology and actual historical events too. You quoting them does nothing to support your claims.

2. People were living in Western and Central Europe... but they weren't even German in nationality since there wasn't yet a Germany (anachronism)... and they weren't the well known German body type either. I draw your attention to the book "Survie Du Langage Cro Magnon" by Claude Georges Henri Cougoulat... he researches the ancient names of Mountains and Rivers of Europe... they're not Germanic, either, BTW.

3. New authors quote the ancient historians, or they quote other authors who quote the ancient authors, otherwise they have to mark their books "fiction". Genetics say "these people" lived "here" and this is their DNA... on what do they base their science? How did they know who lived where if the ancients are to be completely disregarded. Archaeologists do the same thing: they go to where ancient history says "these people" lived, and find what they left behind. Without Ancient History none of that would be even remotely possible.

As for "actual historical events"... we are shown when the Barbarians came into Europe, and it's their fault that the Roman Empire fell.
Your arguments seem to be trying to say something entirely different.

The modern people living in Illyria are pretending to be the original Illyrians. The Bulgarians are pretending that we never caught their advent with the arrivals from the East. The Turks have written their names all over Anatolia.
What's up with these people?
They take the lives and the land... and then get the history of the indigenous people of the land as a bonus?
More and more, what passes itself off as History becomes Identity Theft... the indigenous are being wished away by the conquestors.