WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SATURDAY

[Leaf473]

I do not buy into the theory that Jesus gave authority to man to change any of God's commandments especially when there is strict instructions to not add or subtract from His commandments.

Two scriptures that come to my mind that support the authority of the church to bind and release,

Matthew 18:18
Most certainly I tell you, whatever things you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever things you release on earth will have been released in heaven.

1 Timothy 3:15
but if I wait long, that you may know how people ought to behave themselves in God’s house, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

1) Because Jesus rose from the Dead on Sunday as testified by the early Church.


2) Because of the 8th day Typology in the Bible and its significance to the Church.

I'm adding another for the @SeventhFisherofMen 3) Because the Church was founded on Pentecost, the day they received the Holy Spirit and this day also fell on a 1st Day / Sunday. This also relates to the 8th day Typology of New Beginning, new creations etc.


I will also add a 4th one on the negative side of things, aka the attempt to turn Saturday into "the Lord's Day". While 7 does relate to "perfection", it also corresponds to such things as sleep, rest in the sense of the complete avoidance of work etc. and sleep itself has some interesting other connotations most notably used as a euphemism for death at different times in the Bible especially by David and the Son of David, Jesus. The entire notion of trying to turn the Sabbath Day into the Lord's Day simply because of the Old Covenant completely goes against this Biblical idiom and convention. Rising from the Grave is the very opposite of sleeping and resting in Sheol.


In the recent months, I have had a chance to study Seventh Day Adventist beliefs and I realize their preoccupation on the Sabbath and the Scriptures really has not much relationship to the scriptures, but more to do with the theology of their various "pioneers", especially Ellen and James White, and the previous Millerite movement. This theology largely comes from untested visions and revelations (ones that are extremely dubious when examined objectively). This is in contrast to the understanding from classical Christianity that understands the scriptures both by themselves in context, but also historically by the very 1st people who received them the Apostolic Fathers, who knew and were discipled by the original apostles themselves, especially saint John the Divine., the longest surviving apostle.

 

[Davy]

There are some prophecies about the new covenant in the Old Testament books, but I am not sure what you are asking... We live in the new covenant, therefore the prophecies about the "future" new covenant are not future for us, for us its past. It was future for the old covenant people, though.

For example...

Gen 49:1
49 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, "Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days."
KJV

That should give you a hint. You find The Gospel in just about every Old Testament Book. Even Psalms 22, which God gave through king David (who also was a prophet), was prophecy about Christ's crucifixion, given about a thousand years before it happened.

The Ezekiel 40 through 48 Chapters are still future to us even.

There are several Chapters in Isaiah that are still future to us, even for after Christ's future return. Many prophecies in the OT prophets are still future for us.

So not everything written in the Old Testament was to be a witness to Christ's 1st coming. Quite a bit of it is written about His 2nd coming and thereafter too.

Thus some men's thinking that the Old Testament means past history really show they haven't actually studied it.

 

[Leaf473]

This is in contrast to the understanding from classical Christianity that understands the scriptures both by themselves in context, but also historically by the very 1st people who received them the Apostolic Fathers, who knew and were discipled by the original apostles themselves, especially saint John the Divine., the longest surviving apostle.

It is a compelling idea that those in the best position to interpret the New Testament are people who lived shortly after the apostles and spoke the same native languages and shared their culture.

Titus 1
I left you in Crete for this reason, that you would set in order the things that were lacking and appoint elders in every city, as I directed you.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I'm not attacking Saturday, so i hope you take back that statement that i was.

If you re-read what I said, I never said you were attacking the Sabbath. Those who argue against the Sabbath, never use scripture in regards to worship on the first day as it was never a day blessed or sanctified by God, nor is it a commandment of God. Instead of defending the first day through scripture, they instead try to find arguments against the Sabbath.

Also it is interesting that you acknowledge the sacrificial law as being done away with in Hebrews, but you didn't address my scripture Hebrews 8:13 "By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear." The old is obsolete, and you are trying so hard to hold onto the old

Actually I did address this. The covenant is what was obsolete, the definition of covenant is an agreement, not a set of laws. The New Covenant is based on better promises, Hebrews 8:6 not better laws, because the law of God is perfect and needs no changing Psalms 19:7 Instead of God deleting His laws in the New Covenant He writes them in the hearts and minds of His people. Hebrews 8:10, Jer 34:33. The old covenant was based on the people doing Exodus 19:5-8 in the New Covenant same laws, but it is what God does- He write His law in the hearts and minds of His people all we need to do in not change our mind in what God wrote for us.

The Lords day is mentioned and has been mentioned to you countless times, i've seen you comment and defend Saturday Sabbath many times, but i don't know what more to say. We know Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday,

Yes, Jesus rose from the dead on the first day, but where is the scripture that says after Jesus rose from the dead that Sabbath is no longer the commandment of God and Sunday is the New day or worship? To make this a valid point we would need scripture stating from God that He changed one of His commandments. There is no such scripture. God clearly stated to not add or subtract from His commandments Deut 4:2

we know people gathered together on Sunday,

The apostles gathered everyday Acts 2:46 but that doesn’t make everyday the Sabbath or change the Sabbath commandment according to God’s Word. The apostles kept holy every Sabbath with prayer, Acts 16:13 preaching God’s Word Acts 18:4 Acts 13:44, Acts 13:42 and teaching scripture Acts 15:21 long after the cross. If someone did away with one of God’s commandments it was not expressed in scripture. Jesus excepted His people to keeping it after the cross Matthew 24:20 the saints keep the commandments of God Revelation 14:12 and Sabbath worship will be kept for eternity thus saith the Lord Isaiah 66:23

and we know that The Lords day was an actual day,

Please provide the scripture for this. People claim this through their words, not God’s Word

if you cannot see these as showing Sunday as the new day of rest under the New Covenant then nothing i say will convince you, you just have to be led by The Holy Spirit to what is true.

While I understand our opinions are important to us, when it comes to following God, I do not seem them as equal ground. Where is the scripture that says Sunday is the new day of rest? You keep making this claim but don’t provide scripture for this claim. Sunday worship did not come from scripture, it was a tradition outside of God’s Word and Jesus tells us quoting right from the Ten Commandments to not worship in vain by keeping traditions over the commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9. We are being called out of Babylon, our false teachings as we need to worship God in Truth and Sprit John 4:23-24 all of God’s commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151 and the Sabbath is one of God’s commandments that God said to remember and keep Holy Exodus 20:8. Man says forget, God says remember- I trust God.

While i do commend your zeal, i wish you weren't so set on this idea we have to follow Saturday, completely ignoring the fact that The Lord's day is Sunday.

Again, your words and not God’s Words and we ought to obey God over man.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

and we know that The Lords day was an actual day,

Please provide the scripture for this. People claim this through their words, not God’s Word

On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, -Revelation 1:10

This is God's word. If after this verse you don't acknowledge that The Lord's day is an actual day or is mentioned in the Bible i do not know what will convince you.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, -Revelation 1:10

This is God's word. If after this verse you don't acknowledge that The Lord's day is an actual day or is mentioned in the Bible i do not know what will convince you.

Where does it say this is the first day in this scripture, you are adding your own ideas to God’s Word. God claimed His day by His very own Words that He spoke and He personally wrote…

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

God said all other days are working days Exodus 20:9

Sad people try to take away the only day God blessed and sanctified and said in His own Words- MY HOLY DAY Isaiah 58:13 and attach a day God deemed to do work and labor and claim it as God’s day.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, -Revelation 1:10

This is God's word. If after this verse you don't acknowledge that The Lord's day is an actual day or is mentioned in the Bible i do not know what will convince you.

I appreciate the discussion, we will probably have to agree to disagree but I wish you all the best in seeking God’s word.

God bless!

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Where does it say this is the first day in this scripture, you are adding your own ideas to God’s Word. God claimed His day by His very own Words that He spoke and He personally wrote…

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

God said all other days are working days Exodus 20:9

Sad people try to take away the only day God blessed and sanctified and said in His own Words- MY HOLY DAY Isaiah 58:13 and attach a day God deemed to do work and labor and claim it as God’s day.

It's not sad, just because you are set that you must follow old testament law in terms of the observation of days does not make Christians who worship on Sundays sad. Do not look down on your brothers and sisters in Christ for how they follow Jesus.

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord.

Romans 14:5-6

Do not look down on someone else for not believing the exact way you do. i don't look down on you, you are my fellow family member in Christ.

I believe that when we get to Heaven if i am convinced I should honor Sunday, and you are convinced you should honor Saturday, and we are both honestly convinced, then we will both stand.

Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

Romans 14:1-4

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It's not sad, just because you are set that you must follow old testament law in terms of the observation of days does not make Christians who worship on Sundays sad. Do not look down on your brothers and sisters in Christ for how they follow Jesus.

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord.

Romans 14:5-6

Do not look down on someone else for not believing the exact way you do. i don't look down on you, you are my fellow family member in Christ.

I believe that when we get to Heaven if i am convinced I should honor Sunday, and you are convinced you should honor Saturday, and we are both honestly convinced, then we will both stand.

Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

Romans 14:1-4

I am not looking down at anyone, I am sharing scriptures on this important topic.

Romans 14 not once mentions the Sabbath commandment and what man deems sacred matters not, it’s only what God deems sacred. This passage is not referring to the Sabbath and if read in context one would see that.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

I am not looking down at anyone, I am sharing scriptures on this important topic.

Romans 14 not once mentions the Sabbath commandment and what man deems sacred matters not, it’s only what God deems sacred. This passage is not referring to the Sabbath and if read in context one would see that.

it's a little frustrating when people pass off their own interpretation of what scripture does and does not apply to, when it is God breathed and can be used for teaching and rebuking, i never understood when people told me how i should read the Bible and what I can and cannot apply it to. The scripture is clear on speaking and it even mentions days, it's amazing that even when it is that specific you are still believing it doesn't apply to the day you follow from Old Testament Law.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

it's a little frustrating when people pass off their own interpretation of what scripture does and does not apply to, when it is God breathed and can be used for teaching and rebuking, i never understood when people told me how i should read the Bible and what I can and cannot apply it to. The scripture is clear on speaking and it even mentions days, it's amazing that even when it is that specific you are still believing it doesn't apply to the day you follow from Old Testament Law.

How is this my interpretation when it is God’s EXACT Words He wrote and He spoke…


Exodus 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord

You might want to consider re-reading the New Testament again, the Sabbath is mentioned over 50 times so not an Old Testament teaching. There is no scripture that says we don’t need to obey God’s commandments. The commandments is still what points out sin Romans 7:7 in the New Covenant and the Ten Commandments are God’s eternal law Revelation 11:19. The Sabbath commandment is an important Truth, even if its not popular, but Jesus never tells us to take the popular path.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

How is this my interpretation what it is God’s EXACT Words He wrote and He spoke…


Exodus 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord

You might want to consider re-reading the New Testament again, the Sabbath is mentioned over 50 times so not an Old Testament teaching.

I quoted scripture from the new testament in regards to Holy Days, you wouldn't hear it. You keep mentioning old testament verses to support what you are doing during the time of the new testament.

We will have to agree to disagree this is getting nowhere.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I quoted scripture from the new testament in regards to Holy Days, you wouldn't hear it. You keep mentioning old testament verses to support what you are doing during the time of the new testament.

We will have to agree to disagree this is getting nowhere.

I have provided plenty of NT scripture but you have yet to respond to any of them, I can repost them again if you want….let me know be happy to do so again. The Sabbath is mentioned over 50+ times in the NT. The NT did not delete the OT and Jesus teaches from it often and the OT is referenced over 1000 times in the NT. The whole bible is God’s Word.

If God was going to do away with one of His commandments that He said we can’t add or subtract from Deut 4:2 don’t you think the Sabbath should at least be referenced in the passage? Romans 14 does not mention the Sabbath once. There were a number of annual holy days that had to do with eating/feast days and if you read Romans 14 in context it refers to eating many times? There is no eating in the Sabbath commandment - This passage is about judging which we shouldn’t do and eating.

14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

How many times does it mention eating-10 times. How many times does it mention the Sabbath commandment- not once.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

How is this my interpretation when it is God’s EXACT Words He wrote and He spoke…


Exodus 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord

You might want to consider re-reading the New Testament again, the Sabbath is mentioned over 50 times so not an Old Testament teaching. There is no scripture that says we don’t need to obey God’s commandments. The commandments is still what points out sin Romans 7:7 in the New Covenant and the Ten Commandments are God’s eternal law Revelation 11:19. The Sabbath commandment is an important Truth, even if its not popular, but Jesus never tells us to take the popular path.

Also i did some research, more than half of the new testament verses mentioning the sabbath are mentioned in the Gospels so that's before Jesus rose from the grave, and then the other remaining verses are just referencing old testament teaching. That's all i'll say, i just want you to know i actually did look at the New Testament reference of the Sabbath. But the First Day of the week as a day of gathering and The Lords Day as a day and The First Day of the Week as the day Jesus rose from the grave and Paul mentioning us not holding onto Old Testament Law instead of the New Covenant ALL IS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

I have provided plenty of NT scripture but you have yet to respond to any of them, I can repost them again if you want….let me know be happy to do so again. The Sabbath is mentioned over 50+ times in the NT. The NT did not delete the OT and Jesus teaches from it often and the OT is referenced over 1000 times in the NT. The whole bible is God’s Word.

If God was going to do away with one of His commandments that He said we can’t add or subtract from Deut 4:2 don’t you think the Sabbath should at least be referenced in the passage? Romans 14 does not mention the Sabbath once. There were a number of annual holy days that had to do with eating/feast days and if you read Romans 14 in context it refers to eating many times? There is no eating in the Sabbath commandment - This passage is about judging which we shouldn’t do and eating.

14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

How many times does it mention eating- 8 times. How many times does it mention the Sabbath commandment- not once.

If you think Romans is specifically talking only of eating and is not an example of spiritual things i will re-quote what Jesus said:

I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Also i did some research, more than half of the new testament verses mentioning the sabbath are mentioned in the Gospels so that's before Jesus rose from the grave, and then the other remaining verses are just referencing old testament teaching. That's all i'll say, i just want you to know i actually did look at the New Testament reference of the Sabbath. But the First Day of the week as a day of gathering and The Lords Day as a day and The First Day of the Week as the day Jesus rose from the grave and Paul mentioning us not holding onto Old Testament Law instead of the New Covenant ALL IS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

Sorry that explanation makes no sense and is not a biblical argument. There is no where in scripture that says we should ignore the teachings of Jesus or ignore His example and the apostles who all taught on the commandments of God and kept them and tell us to as well. It’s a theme throughout all of the NT and Old Testament.

You still have not provided once scripture that says Sunday is the new commandment or day of worship or day of rest. I’m going to sign out because it’s hard to reason one persons opinions over the scriptures. God bless and wish you well.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

If you think Romans is specifically talking only of eating and is not an example of spiritual things i will re-quote what Jesus said:

I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

You are taking the words of Jesus out of context, he is not referring to Romans 14. Not once in Romans 14 talks about God’s holy day, it’s referring to days MAN esteems above another not what God esteems.

Jesus advocated that we keep the commandments of God quoting directly from the Ten Commandments and condemns those who keep their self-laws over God’s commandments Matthew 15:3-9.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Sorry that explanation makes no sense and is not a biblical argument. There is no where in scripture that says we should ignore the teachings of Jesus or ignore His example and the apostles who all taught on the commandments of God and kept them and tell us to as well. It’s a theme throughout all of the NT and Old Testament.

You still have not provided once scripture that says Sunday is the new commandment or day of worship or day of rest. I’m going to sign out because it’s hard to reason one persons opinions over the scriptures. God bless and wish you well.

It actually does make sense, since Old Testament Law was valid up unto the point of Jesus's Death and Resurrection, then is the New Covenant.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It actually does make sense, since Old Testament Law was valid up unto the point of Jesus's Death and Resurrection, then is the New Covenant.

Jesus in His own words condemns those who do not keep the commandment of God over their self-laws quoting right from the Ten Commandments Matthew 15:3-9. Jesus is the Mediator of God’s New Covenant where God writes His laws in the hearts and minds of His people Hebrews 8:10 instead of deleting them as you are seem to be suggesting. In the New Covenant sin is still defined as breaking these law Romans 7:7 and James says if you break one again quoting from the Ten Commandments you break them all. James 2:10-12. God’s Commandments didn’t disappears in the New Covenant and this teaching is not coming from God’s Word.
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3 all of God’s commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151 and those who keep not His commandments there is no truth 1 John 2:3-5

Jesus is our example to follow 1 John 2:6 who came to do the will of God John 6:38 and kept all of His Fathers commandments as our example to follow John 15:10 we should follow the Lamb!