Galatians 4 two opposing covenants.

[BrotherJJ]

It's God's Salvation that you reject, not mine. I'm just posting His Words and you are ignoring them, choosing instead to promote a popular religious philosophy from one of the "many" philosophies which exist.

Luke 13: 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Rom. 2: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

John 6: 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

1 Cor. 6: 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived:

Your unbelief in these Inspired Word's of God, spoken to the Body of Christ, don't make my Faith in the God who inspired them of none effect.



God's Works can save me, they are the only "Works" that can. I asked you a question that you can't answer and still justify the religious philosophy you are attempting to convert others to. But I'll ask it again.

If God tells me to wash in the Jordan River to be healed, and I wash in the Jordan River. Was this "MY Works" that healed me, or God's?

Why not just answer the question and have a discussion about it?



If the Christ of the Bible tells me to "Go and Sin no more", but "Many", who come in His Name, preach to the world that Jesus is basically lying to me, that it's impossible to "go and sin no more". How is that religion living in Faith in God or His Son?




Heb. 10: 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

How can you be complete in Him, if you ignore or reject His Inspired Words.

John 5: 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

How then, can a man become "Complete in Him", if they are "Hearers of His Word" only, and not "Doers" as both Jesus and Paul teach?




I always marvel how men cherry pick scripture for the purpose of self-justification. 1 Cor. 5 destroys the easy salvation this world's religions promote.

2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Here, in the verse you left off, Paul is "beseeching" the Body of Christ, whose Sin have already been removed, "Be ye Reconciled to God". But you are preaching to the World, that Jesus already did that so you have nothing to do or say in the matter. And not only that, but if a man actually believes Paul, Jesus and the Prophets, and "Yields themselves servants to Obey God", like Paul instructs the Body of Christ to do, they are trying to get to heaven by their own "self works".

How is this not the very thing Jesus warned His Church about?

Matt. 24: 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.



This is your religion, but not the Gospel Paul taught both Jew and Gentile.

Acts 26: 19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: 20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

And again;

Rom. 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, (Body of Christ) by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: (Including it's religions) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


The Jesus of the Bible said "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

So you have your religion, and Path that you walk, and Jesus, the Prophets, Paul and the Disciples had God's Path that they walked. Certainly more folks have been convinced to turn away from the "Way of the Lord" of the Bible and join the "many" on the path you promote.

I am advocating for belief and Faith, not in this world's religions and religious philosophies, but in the God inspired Holy scriptures for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


This is certainly a seductive religion and has certainly made this world's religious businesses very wealthy. "Come as you are" and "Jesus does it all for you". But when a man actually reads the scriptures, it becomes clear why Jesus didn't warn His Disciples of the future about Atheists, Islam or Buddhism. Instead, HE warned about "Christians".

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Surely HE saw this world's religions you are promoting coming.


The Jesus of the Bible said; This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

And again;

"And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition."

And again;

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

What if Jesus is actually right, and it is the religious philosophy of this world you have been convinced of, that is wrong. Certainly a man of faith should consider these things.

I'm writing after reading the 1st sentence of your reply. Thankfully you don't make the decision on my salvation.

You've repeatedly talked about religion. Religion is about what people do. Their good works, law keeping, how much they give, pray, church attendance etc. The Pharisees (like you) were all about religion.

The Gospel is about what Christ did. His Death, Burial, Resurrection. And when we trust Him, what He can do thru/with/in us.

The prepositional phrase's: "In Christ" "In Him" "In Whom".

Are positional statements used over 100 times by Paul

Rom 8:1 There is now no condemnation for those who are "in Christ" Jesus

1 Cor 1:30 Because of him that you are "in Christ", who has become for us wisdom from God that is, our righteousness, holiness & redemption

2 Cor 5:17 If anyone is "in Christ", he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come

Gal 3:26 You are all sons of God thru faith "in Christ"

You're free to promote your beliefs, as am I. Clearly, no amount of discussion between us will change anything. In fact, I believe there divisive/unfruitful nature is against foundational Christian beliefs. I will leave this (& any future debate with you) at we disagree. May His grace be multiplied to you & yours. JJ

 

[Clare73]

The preaching that God created impossible laws to follow, then slaughtered those who didn't follow them, is a popular religious philosophy of this world God placed me in. But a deception just the same.

Before his fall, Adam was able to obey God's laws, and that would include the Mosaic laws, had they been given at that time.

But that fallen man could obey, according to a righteous and holy God's requirements, his righteous and holy law is a deception.

Noah, Abraham, Caleb, Joshua, Daniel, Shadrack, Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and a host of other Faithful men in the Bible, most certainly kept God's Laws according to God's requirements. Not according to your judgments of God, but according to HIS Words. As HE said,here

There was no legislation with death penalty attached given by God from Adam to Moses.
And no one, from Noah to Anna, etc. would claim they were without sin because their obedience was perfect, 24/7.

23 Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:

24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

And none of which speaks to obedience to a legislative code.

As Paul also teaches. "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

And Paul also preaches that unregenerate man cannot obey them nor please God (Ro 8:7-8). He must be born again to do so (Ro 7:25).
(A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.)

Your preaching that God gave us instruction, but not the power to walk in this instruction, is a deception.

You need to have a discussion with Paul regarding Ro 3:9-20 and Ro 7:14-25.
(A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.)

It is much simpler and easier to understand than this sermon. Why did God bless Abraham?

Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Since there were no "commandments, statues and laws" in Scripture prior to Moses, and since Moses was addressing Israel after the covenant of Sinai, he spoke in language familiar to them, but language that strickly applied only to the Siniatic covenant.
He was emphasizing to Israel that their father Abraham had been obedient to God's will in his time,
that they must follow his example in their time if they were also to receive the covenant promises.

The Simplicity that is in Christ, even a child can understand.
Abraham had God's Laws, God's Statutes, God's Judgments and God's Commandments. Your entire religion, according to your posts, is founded on the belief that God gave Abraham different Laws, Statutes, Commandments and Judgements,

My "entire religion" is founded on the entire text of the whole Bible which nowhere either states or presents a legislated code given to Abraham.
Your entire religion is founded on a deficient understanding of Biblical text, understood in the context of the whole Bible.

than HE gave to Abraham's Children in the day HE led them out of Egypt. But Abraham was not given a Law ever, requiring that he bring a goat to the Levite Priest and Kill it because he sinned. When was this Law "ADDED" to the Commandments God gave to Abraham, then to Abraham's Children? I posted the answer, but you completely ignored even its existence.
No doubt you will do so again, but I'll post it just in case.
Jer. 7: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: 23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

Which is not a legislated code with specific penalty attached (death), but indicative simply of single commands in different situations.

24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.
So Abraham, as clearly shown by God's Word, had His Laws, His Statutes, His Judgments, and His Commandments

You do not understand the difference between "commands" and a "legislated code with legislated penalty," as in the Mosaic law code.

And he was a "Doer" of the Law, not a Hearer only. "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the "doers of the law", (Like Abraham,) shall be justified."

Previously addressed.

And again, as the first time, taken out of context.
That statement is made in the context of showing that all Israel was unrighteous, just as all Gentiles were unrighteous and, therefore, all mankind was unrighteous (Ro 3:9-10), and is not an assertion of justification by law keeping.
(A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.)

Not Justified by the "Works of the Law" concerning burnt offering and sacrifices for sins, because the LAW concerning animal sacrifice for sins was not "ADDED" until 430 years after him. They were "ADDED" to God's Commandments, Statutes, Laws and Judgments Abraham Obeyed, because Israel Hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, or as Paul teaches, "Transgressed".

This is a very important foundation truth here. "Many" have been convinced of the deception that ALL of God's LAWS HE gave to Moses, were ADDED "because of Transgressions", which makes no sense because "Transgression", or "Sin" is Transgression of God's Law. How could they "Transgress" Laws that you preach didn't exist before the Exodus?

Previously addressed. . .

And you've located the deception in the wrong place.

They sinned between Adam and Moses, but their sin was not accounted against them because there was no law to transgress (Ro 5:13),
and where there is no law, there is no transgression of law with death penalty attached (as there was transgression of such law in the Garden and at Sinai). . .and which transgression of such law in the Garden is the cause of mortality (Ro 6:23).

They were God's chosen people, but they were still sinners as well as others, and the law was given to convince them of their sin, to restrain them from committing sin, and to show them the only way that sin was atoned for; i.e., through death and sacrifice, "till the Seed should come."

The Law that was "ADDED" for "forgiveness" till the Seed should come, was the Priesthood covenant

The only "Priesthood covenant" was the covenant with Phinehas (Nu 25:10-31) made almost 40 years after the establishment of the Levitical priesthood by the Levitical law (Lev 8-9).
(A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.)

concerning burnt offering and sacrifices for sin. Abraham was Justified "Apart" from this Law, as it wasn't added until 430 years after him.

Abraham, and all the born again, are justified apart from all law, for justification is by faith (Ge 15:6, Ro 4:3) apart from the law (Ro 3:28).

Not according to the Pope, or Wesley or Calvin or Jim Bakker. But according to the God Inspired Holy Scriptures that Paul taught to Body of Christ to continue in, in these evil times when men come in Christ's Name to deceive.

Stand back and think about this a little. Is God lying to you though Jeremiah?

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. . .

 

[GDL]

Jer. 7: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: 23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

I was glancing through this thread and thought I recognized what you are saying. I went back through my private messages and confirmed I messaged you back in 2020 when I first read your take on the addition of the sacrifices to God's Law. Life got in the way, but obviously I had not forgotten what you said. I found your Jer7 comments of interest then and still do.

In brief, to start, could you please provide a simple outline of what you see as Law and additions from pre-Moses, whether back to Abraham (Gen26:5) or prior, and onward to post resurrection, or any timeframe you care to cover?

Much appreciated in advance.

 

[GDL]

God's Eternal Laws

I'm just flagging this phrase. Some students of Biblical Law refer to this as God's Law that was pre-Moses, in Moses and remains in Christ. Some refer to it as Moral Law.

 

[Studyman]

I was glancing through this thread and thought I recognized what you are saying. I went back through my private messages and confirmed I messaged you back in 2020 when I first read your take on the addition of the sacrifices to God's Law. Life got in the way, but obviously I had not forgotten what you said. I found your Jer7 comments of interest then and still do.

In brief, to start, could you please provide a simple outline of what you see as Law and additions from pre-Moses, whether back to Abraham (Gen26:5) or prior, and onward to post resurrection, or any timeframe you care to cover?

Much appreciated in advance.

Thanks for asking.

I have found that motive is essential in study as the Scriptures are spiritual in nature and were created to change or influence the heart of man. When we are "Seeking the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness", the Scriptures mean one thing. But when we are using Scriptures to justify a preconceived belief or doctrine, it completely changes the dynamic from being "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" as they were intended, into a tool of self-justification or promotion of specific religious beliefs adopted from other voices in the world God placed us in. This is shown in John 7 brilliantly as the Pharisees actually used Scripture to prove Jesus wasn't "The Prophet". While Jesus pointed to the Law and Prophets (Gospel of Christ) as proof that HE was.

So in the spirit of seeking Biblical Truth, which I believe you may also be seeking, I am glad to share my understanding regarding the existence of God's Law in Creation. I do make some assumptions.

#1. I believe God spoke more Words to Adam, Noah and Abraham than are recorded in Scriptures.

#2. I believe God is a Just God.

As for "Pre-Moses or Post-Moses", I can't see where this even applies regarding God's Commandments, Statutes and Judgments which define His righteousness. The only reason we are even having this discussion is because of the religious doctrines, traditions and philosophies of this world that God placed us in. No different than what happened to Eve, in my view.

Paul says God's Righteousness and Wrath against the unrighteousness of man, is revealed within the Law and Prophets, or as he calls them in Roman's 1, "The Gospel of Christ". And Paul also says Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

So the wrath of God against all unrighteousness of man, is shown or "manifest" in Cain, the Wicked world of Noah's time, Sodom, Egypt, rebellious Jews, and so on. And the Righteousness of God is shown or "manifest" in Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Caleb, Daniel, David etc.

For example.

Lev. 19: 17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

1 John 3: 11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Matt. 22: 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. (or as Paul calls it, "The Gospel of Christ")

So even though God's Righteousness wasn't enumerated in the scriptures until Moses, I understand that they existed from the foundation of the world and are made manifest in the Examples of Faith God gives us.

So it is written of Abraham; (Pre-Moses)

Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

And it was written of Hezekiah (Post-Moses)

2 King 18: 1 Now it came to pass in the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign. 2 Twenty and five years old was he when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and nine years in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Abi, the daughter of Zachariah. 3 And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did. 4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan. 5 He trusted in the LORD God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor any that were before him. 6 For he clave to the LORD, and departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses.

And it is written of Zacharias; (New Testament)

Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

And we are shown the same thing, by the Same God from the same Scriptures. It is only the mind of men who cause or create contention. And these examples were given for us, at this time in history.

Heb. 4: 1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them ( unrighteous men), not being mixed with faith (Belief) in them that heard it.

And all these things were written specifically for us, who exist in the New Priesthood as Paul teaches in 1 Cor. 10.

So what about the "LAW" concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices for "transgressions"?

Jer. 7: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: 23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

So when was the LAW requiring a man to bring a goat to the Levite Priest and Kill it for their sins, commanded?

Ex. 32: 30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; (A 2nd Time) peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.

If the "LAW" concerning burnt offering and Sacrifices for sin already existed or had already been "ADDED", as "many" on this forum preach, then why did Moses need to go back up to God a 2nd time, to make atonement for their sin? The answer is because it didn't yet exist. It was yet to be "ADDED". Paul explains.

Gal. 3: 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added "because of transgressions", till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

I find zero evidence that God didn't reveal HIS Righteousness to Noah or Abraham. Just the opposite. "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. Jesus instructs us to do the same. Did God not also reveal to us His Righteousness?

I find no evidence that God didn't reveal His Wrath against Adultery to Noah or Abraham. Even Abimelec knew of the Sin of Adultery and feared. I find no evidence that God didn't reveal His Sabbath HE created for men at creation, to Noah and Abraham. Nor do I find any evidence that God didn't reveal Passover, or His Definition of what animals were made for "Food" and what animals were not to Abraham or Noah. And what would cause me to even question these things?

But I do find that there was no evidence of a "LAW" commanding that a man that sinned, should bring a goat to a Levite Priest, and Kill it, before Israel's great Sin against God.

In every case, those religious men who are promoting the religious philosophy that God's instruction in righteousness HE gave to Abraham were different than God's instruction in righteousness HE gave to Abraham's Children, are from men who have laid aside the commandment of God that they might keep their own religious tradition.

And in my view, this is why Jesus warned to "Take heed" and "Beware" of the traditions and philosophies of men "who come in His Name.

Sorry so long, I look forward to your take.

 

[Studyman]

I'm just flagging this phrase. Some students of Biblical Law refer to this as God's Law that was pre-Moses, in Moses and remains in Christ. Some refer to it as Moral Law.

Here is what David, in the Spirit of Christ, teaches.

Ps. 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

 

[GDL]

Sorry so long, I look forward to your take.

Not a problem. Though I would like to try to keep this to a point or few at a time. To be fair, I'm going to give you a bit of introductory insight:

1. Similarly, as I understand you, I hold to no theological camp. For me, any interpretation must withstand Scriptural scrutiny.
2. I've read and studied a lot of "scholarly" work, am trained to a degree in Greek exegesis, and exegetical studies are my favored ones. Because of this I see how much of Scripture is still under study and disagreed upon between different theological systems or even scholars within the same system.
3. Biblical Law has been of interest to me since at least my conversion. I've read several in-depth studies on the topic. I've done several of my own over the years. I'm currently reading a very insightful book on Biblical Law written by a now deceased legal scholar. Some of the points he's identifying re: language issues, associations between law and wisdom, and such things is very interesting and beyond most theological based works I've read.
4. The way I read works re: Biblical Law, it remains a wide-open field of study within Christendom after all these millennia.

With that said, and setting aside that scholarly realm and its rules, I'm going to throw a bit of interpretive work at you that IMO applies to all of us. I worked on the language of Hebrew 11:1-3 some time ago. IMO it's not as simple as it's typically translated. There are some very interesting words in these verses. When researching a few of them I found an interesting connection.

Two of the words in Heb11:1 were used in Classical Greek Philosophy as points of the Socratic Method. Seeing as though the Apostle John deals with Greek Philosophy re: the Logos, this interested me. What the Socratic Method essentially entails, is to present a theory, a premise and see if it will withstand scrutiny and reason to be accepted as a truth.

IMO, this is what is being said about our Faith in these Hebrews verses. It's not blind and it must withstand reasoning based upon who God is and what things we can understand He has done throughout history while not actually seeing them. This is not light weight thinking and reasoning. But we have His Spirit.

So, I'm not certain how well I can scrutinize what you're saying, but I'd like to take a shot at it. What I don't want to do is attack you from some camp-based theological point of view. From what I read from you; Scripture is the authority. I'm in agreement. I may periodically put forth some theological point of view of others to discuss with you.

I'd like to begin here - where you caught my eye a few years ago:

• NKJ Jeremiah 7:22-23 "For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices. 23 "But this is what I commanded them, saying,`Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.'

Questions:

• As I understand you, so please correct me if I'm wrong; you're saying the sacrifices were "added" to pre-existing "God's Eternal Law" and that there were two covenants, one being the Levitical Priesthood and the other specifically being what?
  • Is God's Eternal Law what we're seeing in Gen26:5? Anywhere else?
  • What Scripture states what you see re: covenants?
• Where in Scripture do you see God saying to Israel when He brought them out of Israel what's said in Jer7:23?
• As I recall, you also said the golden calf incident was the transgression that prompted something. What was this and how do you show this with Scripture?
• How does this all piece together?

My apology for asking you to repeat what you've already said. I want to be certain I'm following you correctly.

 

[Studyman]

Not a problem. Though I would like to try to keep this to a point or few at a time. To be fair, I'm going to give you a bit of introductory insight:

1. Similarly, as I understand you, I hold to no theological camp. For me, any interpretation must withstand Scriptural scrutiny.
2. I've read and studied a lot of "scholarly" work, am trained to a degree in Greek exegesis, and exegetical studies are my favored ones. Because of this I see how much of Scripture is still under study and disagreed upon between different theological systems or even scholars within the same system.
3. Biblical Law has been of interest to me since at least my conversion. I've read several in-depth studies on the topic. I've done several of my own over the years. I'm currently reading a very insightful book on Biblical Law written by a now deceased legal scholar. Some of the points he's identifying re: language issues, associations between law and wisdom, and such things is very interesting and beyond most theological based works I've read.
4. The way I read works re: Biblical Law, it remains a wide-open field of study within Christendom after all these millennia.

With that said, and setting aside that scholarly realm and its rules, I'm going to throw a bit of interpretive work at you that IMO applies to all of us. I worked on the language of Hebrew 11:1-3 some time ago. IMO it's not as simple as it's typically translated. There are some very interesting words in these verses. When researching a few of them I found an interesting connection.

Two of the words in Heb11:1 were used in Classical Greek Philosophy as points of the Socratic Method. Seeing as though the Apostle John deals with Greek Philosophy re: the Logos, this interested me. What the Socratic Method essentially entails, is to present a theory, a premise and see if it will withstand scrutiny and reason to be accepted as a truth.

IMO, this is what is being said about our Faith in these Hebrews verses. It's not blind and it must withstand reasoning based upon who God is and what things we can understand He has done throughout history while not actually seeing them. This is not light weight thinking and reasoning. But we have His Spirit.

So, I'm not certain how well I can scrutinize what you're saying, but I'd like to take a shot at it. What I don't want to do is attack you from some camp-based theological point of view. From what I read from you; Scripture is the authority. I'm in agreement. I may periodically put forth some theological point of view of others to discuss with you.

I am glad to discuss scriptures with you. But I must say up front that I don't believe God's Truth is only revealed or can only be revealed to the scholars of this world, or those who attend its schools of theology, or those who adopt the philosophy of men who partake of these things. There are thousands, probably millions of studied theologians, going all the way back to Gamaliel. I appreciate that you have dedicated so much time and effort into these things and in no way am trying to disparage you here. But there are, over time, Billions of men who never had access to any such things, and if they did, couldn't afford to partake of them. And there is no "prophesy" or warning given or implied by Jesus or Paul, that some day men would be required to go outside the scriptures for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Zacharias Simeon and Anna are two example that come to my mind. The lived in a town where the Pharisees/Jews religion was mainstream. And where the Scribes and Pharisees "grew up at the feet of Gamaliel", a teaching which caused them to persecute the church of God, just as their fathers in ancient Israel. But these 3 were different. They had listened to Moses but did not partake of the religion that the Jews/Pharisees were promoting. And their Faith and Worship of the Christ, before HE even came, dwarfed that of many of the Disciples who personally witnessed His works, manners and teaching.

As a result of these truths, I have come to believe that God's Truth exists in whatever Translation of the Holy Scriptures HE made available to me, in the world HE placed me in. Having said that, I am delighted to continue in your inquiry.

I'd like to begin here - where you caught my eye a few years ago:

• NKJ Jeremiah 7:22-23 "For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices. 23 "But this is what I commanded them, saying,`Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.'

Questions:

• As I understand you, so please correct me if I'm wrong; you're saying the sacrifices were "added" to pre-existing "God's Eternal Law" and that there were two covenants, one being the Levitical Priesthood and the other specifically being what?

Actually, I am responding to popular religious philosophy, promoted by popular and rather large ancient religious businesses and sects of this world that God placed me in, which use Paul's words in Gal. 3;19 to justify the rejection of much of God's Judgments and Commandments spoken of in the Law and Prophets. So to be clear, it was Paul who was addressing a "LAW", that someone was Promoting to the Galatians, I believe that to be Pharisees, which implied that the Spirit of God is only available to those who partake in some "Works of the Law". "This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?"

As I understand it. God has His Laws, Statutes, Commandments and Judgments from the foundation of the world. And HE tells men that if they walk in these things, it will be well with them. He implied this to Adam and Eve, Cain, Noah and Abraham. And also to the Children of Abraham.

Ex. 19: 4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

This is the same thing God said to Abraham.

Gen. 17: 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

The same thing God said to Cain.

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

This was not a NEW Covenant with Israel, this was God's Covenant with Adam, Noah, Abraham Isaac and Jacob, passed on to Israel.

But Israel Transgressed. They broke to Covenant, something Noah and Abraham did not do. And God set out to wipe them out.

Ex. 32: 9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: 10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

So at this point it's all over. Israel blew it. God was going to wipe them all out. The Levites, all of them. And start fresh with Moses.

But Moses pleaded with God on "their behalf".

13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever."

And Moses said;

26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD'S side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.

27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour. 28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men. 29 For Moses had said, ( Consecrate yourselves to day to the LORD, even every man upon his son, and upon his brother; that he may bestow upon you a blessing this day.

But no blessing was coming to the sons of Aaron that day.

So Moses went up to God a second time. And HE made a Priesthood Covenant with Israel, as a stand alone people. So that HE might keep the promises HE made to Abraham.

Mal. 2: 4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. 5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name. EX. 32:26!

This is the Covenant that was Prophesied to Change "After those days" as Hebrews recalls.

Heb. 8: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Not according to the Covenant HE made with Israel "Because they Transgressed" the Covenant HE passed onto them from their father Abraham.

This was the First Covenant God made with the Children of Israel.

In it, God gave the same 10 Commandments. He kept Levi to minister before Him in the Priest's Office. But HE "ADDED", for the first time, a LAW requiring a man who sinned, to bring a goat to a Levite Priest, and Kill it, before the Priest could provide for the atonement of his sin. This "LAW", that was "ADDED" because of Transgressions, was to be in place until the Prophesied "Lamb of God" should come.

So the 2 Covenants in question, are the Priesthoods. The first one, carnal, Temporary, the Levitical Priesthood, "After the Order of Aaron" and the second Priesthood, which was to come "After those days", "After the Order of Melchizedek and not "After the Order of Aaron, is eternal. There is no mention in the Promise of a New Covenant regarding the abolition of God's Laws, Judgments or Commandments. In fact, there isn't one Prophesy in any translation that prophesies about the abolition of God's Laws. Only 2 things were prophesied to change.

#1. The manner in which God's Laws are received.

#2. The manner in which sins are forgiven.

Jer. 31: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. (No more Levite Priest to read the Law to us)

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, (And look, we have the Oracles of God in our own homes) saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. (No more taking a goat to the Levite Priest, and killing it)

 

[Studyman]

• Is God's Eternal Law what we're seeing in Gen26:5? Anywhere else?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking if God tells us of other men of Faith who He declared obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.? I already posted a few examples of this in my past posts.

What Scripture states what you see re: covenants?

I think my answer to your first question covers a few. But Hebrews 10 sums it up pretty well.

Heb. 10: 1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

When did the Christ come into the World?

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. When did the Christ Come, and what was the Bood that was written of Him?

I hope you might show the kindness of answering a few of my questions as well.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

He Took away The First Priesthood, that HE might establish the 2nd Priesthood.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (Not Temporary sacrificial "Works of the Law" of a Priesthood which was Prophesied to Change, that the Pharisees were still promoting) 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

I really don't understand why this is so difficult to "SEE", or how these teachings can be twisted to justify rejecting God's Instruction in Righteousness. After all, didn't the same God who inspired this, also tell us;

1 Sam. 15: 22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. 23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

• Where in Scripture do you see God saying to Israel when He brought them out of Israel what's said in Jer7:23?

Ex. 19: 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

• As I recall, you also said the golden calf incident was the transgression that prompted something. What was this and how do you show this with Scripture?

And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; (A 2nd time) peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.

I asked this question before, but no one thought it worthy of addressing.

If the LAW which required men to Kill a goat in front of a Levite Priest every time men sinned, to have your sin atoned for already existed, then why does Moses have to go up to God a 2nd Time, for 40 days and 40 nights, seeking atonement?

• How does this all piece together?

There are no scriptures which contradict this understanding. There are, of course, many religious philosophies which existed in this world God placed me in, that promote various religious theories, doctrines and traditions which contradict Scriptures. But Paul agrees perfectly, and in my view, teaches this understanding. After all, it was him who brought up the LAW that was "ADDED" because of transgressions, "Till the SEED should Come".

My apology for asking you to repeat what you've already said. I want to be certain I'm following you correctly.

I was wondering. I tried to keep it short, but also explain so you would have to wonder about my faith.

 

[GDL]

I am glad to discuss scriptures with you. But I must say up front that I don't believe God's Truth is only revealed or can only be revealed to the scholars of this world, or those who attend its schools of theology, or those who adopt the philosophy of men who partake of these things. There are thousands, probably millions of studied theologians, going all the way back to Gamaliel. I appreciate that you have dedicated so much time and effort into these things and in no way am trying to disparage you here. But there are, over time, Billions of men who never had access to any such things, and if they did, couldn't afford to partake of them. And there is no "prophesy" or warning given or implied by Jesus or Paul, that some day men would be required to go outside the scriptures for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I agree with you. Please don't misunderstand me. Whether we like it or not, much of what you refer to as religions has come down through various forms of what we can call scholarship, then into the pastorate, then into the pews. Then, as we can see in these threads, the pews based in different theological camps argue with one another. But so does the pastorate and the scholarship.

When I speak of scholarship and exegetical studies, I mean dealing with the Text as it was written in the languages it was written. But I learned firsthand that being able to understand the grammar and grammatical structure of the Text does not equate to understanding what it means. I can show you works that pick apart every word, translate every word and clause to the minute detail of the language, then put all that work back into a certain theological framework and lose all accurate interpretation.

For me, it's what does the Text say and mean. That doesn't make me unique, but I have no theological camp affiliations and hold to no framework other than the one that is ultimately and actually in the Word of God. Going outside the Scriptures is precisely what I do not desire to do no matter anyone's theological traditions. I hope that helps.

With that said, as I explained, your interpretations must hold up under scrutiny from within the Scriptures. All I can tell you is that I've redeemed a lot of time working to unlearn many things I was taught. For the past few decades, I've been working pretty much on my own in the Scripture letting it define and explain itself down to the level of individual words and their meanings as used in the Text. I'm studied in Greek. I can work in Hebrew at a much lesser degree. So, let's see how what you say works in the Text itself.

 

[GDL]

As a result of these truths, I have come to believe that God's Truth exists in whatever Translation of the Holy Scriptures HE made available to me, in the world HE placed me in. Having said that, I am delighted to continue in your inquiry.

I'm not opposed to what you say, but I would caution you to not swing the pendulum too far away from those who work in translations. It's not a matter of becoming anti something other than anti error, and as I just wrote, there is error in both extreme swings of the pendulum.

 

[GDL]

This was the First Covenant God made with the Children of Israel.

In it, God gave the same 10 Commandments

Sorry. I'm working on this one but having to switch computers.

Ex24 speaks of the Book of the Covenant with Moses and Israel that Israel agreed to do, and that Moses enacts with blood. The Aaronic Priesthood is dealt with in Ex27-30.

So, you're emphasizing the Covenant language with Levi. What about the Covenant with Moses & Israel?

 

[Studyman]

I agree with you. Please don't misunderstand me. Whether we like it or not, much of what you refer to as religions has come down through various forms of what we can call scholarship, then into the pastorate, then into the pews. Then, as we can see in these threads, the pews based in different theological camps argue with one another. But so does the pastorate and the scholarship.

When I speak of scholarship and exegetical studies, I mean dealing with the Text as it was written in the languages it was written. But I learned firsthand that being able to understand the grammar and grammatical structure of the Text does not equate to understanding what it means. I can show you works that pick apart every word, translate every word and clause to the minute detail of the language, then put all that work back into a certain theological framework and lose all accurate interpretation.

For me, it's what does the Text say and mean. That doesn't make me unique, but I have no theological camp affiliations and hold to no framework other than the one that is ultimately and actually in the Word of God. Going outside the Scriptures is precisely what I do not desire to do no matter anyone's theological traditions. I hope that helps.

With that said, as I explained, your interpretations must hold up under scrutiny from within the Scriptures. All I can tell you is that I've redeemed a lot of time working to unlearn many things I was taught. For the past few decades, I've been working pretty much on my own in the Scripture letting it define and explain itself down to the level of individual words and their meanings as used in the Text. I'm studied in Greek. I can work in Hebrew at a much lesser degree. So, let's see how what you say works in the Text itself.

Amen to that GDL,

I would only add that these things would also be true for Abraham, and Caleb and Zacharias as well as Peter and James and anyone who, as Paul teaches, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. .

 

[Studyman]

I'm not opposed to what you say, but I would caution you to not swing the pendulum too far away from those who work in translations. It's not a matter of becoming anti something other than anti error, and as I just wrote, there is error in both extreme swings of the pendulum.

There is error in translations, and I do my share of comparing, and working to define the meaning of words. But I am convinced the Scriptures are Spiritual, which require a certain amount of Spiritual understanding given by a Spiritual God. "But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

For example, if I am a serial thief, and I am called, for whatever reason, to seek God and I read His 10 commandments. If I continue stealing as I study, I will learn nothing of consequence, regardless of translations, defining words, etc.

So if there are two thieves who turn to God in study, And one stops stealing, and the other doesn't. I will guarantee two different understandings.

Man is called to repentance first, according to the Jesus of the Bible, in my understanding. There must be a desire of the heart towards God. Not to say I become sinless at the start. But repentance starts someplace. AS it is written;

Duet 7: 22 And the LORD thy God will put out those nations before thee by little and little: thou mayest not consume them at once, lest the beasts of the field increase upon thee.

 

[GDL]

I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking if God tells us of other men of Faith who He declared obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.? I already posted a few examples of this in my past posts.

Is what is called the Mosaic Law the first time the specifics of or including God's Eternal Law are clearly specified? I know we can see bits and pieces of situations where men can be seen to be keeping some of what we see in Mosaic Law before Moses. I think you've posted a few examples. Again, not to slight you in any way, but this is not a unique view. The problem for many is that these examples are fairly sparse even though the language of obeying God is from the Garden on (and forever).

 

[GDL]

He Took away The First Priesthood, that HE might establish the 2nd Priesthood.

This is obviously the point you are making and I'm working to see clarified. I know you're aware that most take this language to mean the Mosaic Cov then the New Cov.

So, it's back to my previous questions about the language re: Covenants being that of with Moses and Israel in correlation to the Covenant with Levi.

 

[GDL]

Ex. 19: 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Thanks. I saw this and some others, so Jer7:23 rather than being a very specific quote seems to be a general reference to such obedience statements.

 

[BrotherJJ]

FAITH is the New Covenant conduit to accessing salvation:

Rom 5:
5 Therefore, since we have been justified [that is, acquitted of sin, declared blameless before God] by faith, [let us grasp the fact that] we have peace with God [and the joy of reconciliation with Him] through our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed).

2 Through Him we also have access by faith into this [remarkable state of] grace in which we [firmly and safely and securely] stand. Let us rejoice in our [a]hope and the confident assurance of [experiencing and enjoying] the glory of [our great] God [the manifestation of His excellence and power].

Eph 1:
13 In Him, you also, when you heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation, and [as a result] believed in Him, were stamped with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit [the One promised by Christ] as owned and protected [by God].

14 The Spirit is the [e]guarantee [the first installment, the pledge, a foretaste] of our inheritance until the redemption of God’s own [purchased] possession [His believers], to the praise of His glory.

Eph 2:
8 For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through FAITH. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God;

9 not as a result of [your] works [nor your attempts to keep the Law], so that no one will [be able to] boast or take credit in any way [for his salvation].

Rom 10:
9 because if you acknowledge and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord [recognizing His power, authority, and majesty as God], and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For with the heart a person believes [in Christ as Savior] resulting in his justification [that is, being made righteous—being freed of the guilt of sin and made acceptable to God]; and with the mouth he acknowledges and confesses [his faith openly], resulting in and confirming [his] salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him [whoever adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Him] will not be disappointed [in his expectations].

2 Thes 2:
13 But we should and are [morally] obligated [as debtors] always to give thanks to God for you, believers beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through the [e]sanctifying work of the Spirit [that sets you apart for God’s purpose] and by your faith in the truth [of God’s word that leads you to spiritual maturity].

14 It was to this end that He called you through our gospel [the good news of Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection], so that you may obtain and share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Cor 12:13 13 For by one [Holy] Spirit we were all baptized into one body, [spiritually transformed—united together] whether Jews or Greeks (Gentiles), slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one [Holy] Spirit [since the same Holy Spirit fills each life].

1 Cor 15:
1 Now brothers and sisters, let me remind you [once again] of the good news [of salvation] which I preached to you, which you welcomed and accepted and on which you stand [by faith].

2 By this faith you are saved [reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose], if you hold firmly to the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain [just superficially and without complete commitment].

3 For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold],

4 and that He was buried, and that He was [bodily] raised on the third day according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold]

Col 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, but by the [spiritual] circumcision of Christ in the stripping off of the body of the flesh [the sinful carnal nature],

Deut 30:6 (A) And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart,

Acts 10:
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message [confirming God’s acceptance of Gentiles].

45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles

Acts 11:
15 When I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as He did on us at the beginning [at Pentecost].

16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

17 So, if God gave Gentiles the same gift [equally] as He gave us after we accepted and believed and trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ [as Savior], who was I to interfere or stand in God’s way?”

18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified and praised God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance that leads to eternal life [that is, real life after earthly death].”

2 Cor 1:22 it is He who has also put His seal on us [that is, He has appropriated us and certified us as His] and has given us the [Holy] Spirit in our hearts as a pledge [like a security deposit to guarantee the fulfillment of His promise of eternal life].

2 Cor 5:5 Now He who has made us and prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave us the [Holy] Spirit as a pledge [a guarantee, a down payment on the fulfillment of His promise].

2 Tim 1:14 Guard [with greatest care] and keep unchanged, the treasure [that precious truth] which has been entrusted to you [that is, the good news about salvation through personal faith in Christ Jesus], through [the help of] the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, when you heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation, and [as a result] believed in Him, were stamped with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit [the One promised by Christ] as owned and protected [by God].

14 The Spirit is the [e]guarantee [the first installment, the pledge, a foretaste] of our inheritance until the redemption of God’s own [purchased] possession [His believers], to the praise of His glory.

Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God [but seek to please Him], by whom you were sealed and marked [branded as God’s own] for the day of redemption [the final deliverance from the consequences of sin].

Rom 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable [for He does not withdraw what He has given, nor does He change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call]

 

[GDL]

And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; (A 2nd time) peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.

I asked this question before, but no one thought it worthy of addressing.

If the LAW which required men to Kill a goat in front of a Levite Priest every time men sinned, to have your sin atoned for already existed, then why does Moses have to go up to God a 2nd Time, for 40 days and 40 nights, seeking atonement?

Could I ask you to post verse references to make this a bit easier? I can find them if you miss one.

Part of the atonement issue is likely that animal sacrifices for sin and atonement can be seen in Ex19:14; Ex29:36; Ex30:30 prior to the golden calf idolatry of Ex32. The atonement Moses was seeking was for "a great sin" of basically the nation.

 

[GDL]

There are no scriptures which contradict this understanding. There are, of course, many religious philosophies which existed in this world God placed me in, that promote various religious theories, doctrines and traditions which contradict Scriptures. But Paul agrees perfectly, and in my view, teaches this understanding. After all, it was him who brought up the LAW that was "ADDED" because of transgressions, "Till the SEED should Come".

This is what I'm scrutinizing as I said earlier. Your last sentence here is what we just started discussing above in regard to the golden calf and atonement, as best I understand at this point.

I was wondering. I tried to keep it short, but also explain so you would have to wonder about my faith.

When we have many dots connected in our thinking, we can put forth those many connections in a long stream or put forth a seemingly big puzzle with many pieces as being complete. It either is or is not and that one piece that has been eisegeted can undo what to us was complete. That's where the Socratic Method and Heb11 I mentioned comes into play and the completed puzzle and connected dots come under scrutiny.

I'm obviously wondering about some of the content of your faith, but not your faith overall. The fact that you seem to be grounded in obedience to God speaks leagues to me about your faith. The fact that you see something you call God's Eternal Law adds to my positive view of your faith, for what my view is worth.