My Dental Challenge

[Diamond72]

Why is it that I get the feeling that when you say "learn" you are really talking about telling him what to think instead of showing him HOW to think and letting him discover the meaning for himself?

I do not know why you have that feeling because it is not accurate or true. People do not want to think for themselves. No one has put any original research into anything and they do not seem to be interested in discovering the truth for themselves. If they do not care, then why should I.

 

[Diamond72]

So why did God send him to where he can mess with his creation?

It is easy to understand why he was thrown out of Heaven. The usual understanding is that he is here to test us to see if we remain faithful to God or not. We are told that love is not loving if it is not given freely. God gives us a choice if we want to abide in HIs love and His goodness.

 

[Kylie]

I do not know why you have that feeling because it is not accurate or true. People do not want to think for themselves. No one has put any original research into anything and they do not seem to be interested in discovering the truth for themselves. If they do not care, then why should I.

Or perhaps people HAVE done the thinking for themselves and you just assume they haven't because they haven't reached the same conclusions as you.

It is easy to understand why he was thrown out of Heaven. The usual understanding is that he is here to test us to see if we remain faithful to God or not. We are told that love is not loving if it is not given freely. God gives us a choice if we want to abide in HIs love and His goodness.

I did not ask why he was thrown out of Heaven, did I?

I asked why he was sent here.

You claim that it is a test makes absolutely no sense if God already knows the outcome of such a test.

 

[Diamond72]

I asked why he was sent here.

I don't know and I am not happy about the condition the world is in. But as the WW2 Vets say: You are either a part of the problem or a part of the cure.

 

[Kylie]

I don't know and I am not happy about the condition the world is in. But as the WW2 Vets say: You are either a part of the problem or a part of the cure.

Of course, when it comes to Satan, he could also be entirely invented, right?

 

[Neutral Observer]

But as the WW2 Vets say: You are either a part of the problem or a part of the cure.

You do realize that that's a totally ridiculous statement right?

 

[Diamond72]

You do realize that that's a totally ridiculous statement right?

That is what they use to say back then. It was the theme for the industrial revolution. Back when we had people like Ford, Edison & Firestone. Now we have Musk, Gates & Bezos, so maybe it is a different world than what it was. We have robots and artificial intelligence and people are becoming more productive and considered to be less of a hindrance than they were.

 

[Neutral Observer]

That is what they use to say back then. It was the theme for the industrial revolution. Back when we had people like Ford, Edison & Firestone. Now we have Musk, Gates & Bezos, so maybe it is a different world than what it was. We have robots and artificial intelligence and people are becoming more productive and considered to be less of a hindrance than they were.

But then again there's another old saying... the more things change the more they stay the same. Perhaps we just have to be able to look beyond the facade and see that underneath all our modern technology we're really not all that different.

 

[Diamond72]

But then again there's another old saying... the more things change the more they stay the same. Perhaps we just have to be able to look beyond the facade and see that underneath all our modern technology we're really not all that different.

The one thing I miss the most is that they use to believe that everyone had a right to their own opinion if you agree with them or not. Solomon said: "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 1:9) I never really understood that though.

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[Kylie]

I feel this is getting away from the discussion of why God sent Satan to be able to wreak havoc on Earth instead of just destroying him.

 

[AV1611VET]

I feel this is getting away from the discussion of why God sent Satan to be able to wreak havoc on Earth instead of just destroying him.

God didn't send Satan to wreak havoc on Earth.

Satan used his freewill to do it.

And if God would have just destroyed him, who would have taken his place?

 

[Kylie]

God didn't send Satan to wreak havoc on Earth.

Satan used his freewill to do it.

Scripture is clear that God sent Satan to Earth:

Revelation 12:7-12

7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8 but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers[a] has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. 11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. 12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”

It is also clear from this that the consequences were known. Satan was sent to Earth deliberately and God knew what the outcome would be.

And if God would have just destroyed him, who would have taken his place?

No one.

THAT'S THE POINT.

Why does the Bible need a bad guy? From an atheistic point of view, the answer is simple - the Bible needs some character to have conflict with God and the forces of good to account for the fact that there is strife in the world. But the problem is that God is so powerful there is no actual reason why he would let Satan continue running around causing trouble. God, being omniscient, knows what Satan is doing AND he knows how to stop him. God, being omnibenevolent, is motivated to stop Satan from doing what he is doing. And God, being omnipotent, is capable of stopping Satan from doing it. There is no plausible reason why God has not yet done it.

But that leads back to that problem: You CAN'T say God has done it, because the second you do, people will see that there is still war and conflict and all those other things that are attributed to Satan, and then everyone will say, "Hey, I thought Satan was responsible for that stuff, but God stopped him. So if there's still conflict, then it must mean your claims were wrong! The religion you present must be wrong!" And then people would leave. So in order to prevent this, the only explanation is to say that God hasn't stopped Satan YET. And, of course, there's no good reason why that should be the case. And I've seen a whole bunch of outrageous leap[s of logic to explain why God hasn't done it, but none are ever convincing.

 

[Diamond72]

Why does the Bible need a bad guy?

If we do not have free will, then we are a robot.

 

[Diamond72]

And if God would have just destroyed him, who would have taken his place?

We take his place. There is nothing better than to praise and worship God.

 

[AV1611VET]

We take his place.

There are millions upon millions of fallen angels.

Any one of which could take Satan's place.

 

[Diamond72]

There are millions upon millions of fallen angels.

Any one of which could take Satan's place.

Jesus replaces Satan and we replace the angles that fell with him.

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

We are star stuff, we owe our existence to the stars.

 

[AV1611VET]

We are star stuff, we owe our existence to the stars.

This kind of talk is why I say evolution is a form of sun worship.

Evolution, which is a form of sun worship, says that the sun provides the energy needed to keep life going on this planet.

Scientism is sun worship.

Christianity is Son worship.

 

[Kylie]

This kind of talk is why I say evolution is a form of sun worship.

Biology says we wouldn't exist if it weren't for our mothers. Are you going to claim that biology is a form of mother-worship?

 

[Kylie]

If we do not have free will, then we are a robot.

I'm not talking about taking people's free will.

I'm talking about not letting the big bad come to a place where he can do a lot of damage.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm talking about not letting the big bad come to a place where he can do a lot of damage.

And who would take his place?