DeSantis Debunks Book Ban Hoax

[keith99]

Hey, Billy.
Dad. What's up?
Look, I've heard there's a book that's available in the school library called XXX. Heard about it?
Don't think so...why?
Well, it's a book that your mother and I don't think is suitable for people your age. It's about...sex. You know?
Gee, dad...
Yeah, I know. It's kind of an awkward subject. But it's important and we don't think you should be learning about it from books like the one I mentioned.
Sure. So you don't want me to read it?
Yeah, that's right. If you have any questions about anything, then your mother and I are happy to discuss them with you. That OK?
Yeah. Sure dad. No problem.

Maybe parents don't have these type of conversations in Florida. About books, about films, about the internet, about graphic novels.

Anyone know why?

Perhaps because even in Florida most parents are not foolish enough to tell their kid to not read or view something and not explain why. All that does is raise curiosity and add the sweetness of forbidden fruit.

And since it seems few parents are willing to take the time to actually read or even skim the book in question so that they know what they are talking about the best option for most is silence.

A far better option would be to be able to recommend a book more in line with what the parents feel is the right way to discuss the issue. But that would be more work for the parents and if the parents simply want to pretend anyone different simply does not exist it becomes impossible.

 

[rambot]

Perhaps because even in Florida most parents are not foolish enough to tell their kid to not read or view something and not explain why. All that does is raise curiosity and add the sweetness of forbidden fruit.

And since it seems few parents are willing to take the time to actually read or even skim the book in question so that they know what they are talking about the best option for most is silence.

A far better option would be to be able to recommend a book more in line with what the parents feel is the right way to discuss the issue. But that would be more work for the parents and if the parents simply want to pretend anyone different simply does not exist it becomes impossible.

 

[Bradskii]

Perhaps because even in Florida most parents are not foolish enough to tell their kid to not read or view something and not explain why. All that does is raise curiosity and add the sweetness of forbidden fruit.

I'm not sure that avoiding telling your kids not do something because they may then try it out anyway is the best parenting advice. And you should explain why, as I did above. The father didn't think that a book about various aspects of sex was the best way to learn about it.

I mean, doesn't everyone do this? My parents did it with me, I did it with my kids. And now they do it with theirs. I certainly didn't need the government to decide for me what I thought was suitable or not. Let's face it, the very first thing I would ask a parent who wanted some book banned would be 'Why not simply tell your child not to read it?' If they say that they don't trust them, then that is the problem that needs to be addressed.

Pushing the government to ban books so that your kid cannot read them is absolving yourself of your parental responsibilities.

 

[rjs330]

Yes it was. The answer was just less binary (yes/no) than you'd hoped.

I am sorry you don't like my answer but that was my experience as a student, teacher and parent.

See this why our education system cannot be trusted. When teachers can't say kids should not be exposed to obscene and sexually explicit material then we have a real problem with the education system. This is precisely why we can't trust teachers or the system. Lets recap.

I asked when obscene and sexually graphic material was been protective material for kids. You responded with Sex Ed classes.

I gave you a chance to clarify since it seemed you were saying obscene material and sexually graphic material was okay in Sex Ed classes. You did not rebut that and instead seemed to double down on it.

There is NO other way to interpret what you said which is obscene and sexually graphic material is okay in sex ed classes.

This is why we cannot trust the education system. You whole naked pictures of bodies defense is ridiculous.

Back in 1969 I got the whole sex talk from my dad. He uses a book that had drawings of the human body help explain things. And he was a pastor. Do you honestly believe that a drawing of the human body in a science class is obscene and sexually graphic then we have another problem all together.

All you had to do was say was no, obscene material is not appropriate or protective. I'm guessing you understand the definition of obscene.

And you wonder why we don't trust the so called professionals? Well this is a prime example of it.

 

[rambot]

See this why our education system cannot be trusted. When teachers can't say kids should not be exposed to obscene and sexually explicit material then we have a real problem with the education system. This is precisely why we can't trust teachers or the system.

I'm not sure why you are having trouble grasping the concept that what "obscene" means is VERY different to different people.

It's not a matter of not "trusting", it's a matter of recognizing that this is a matter of OPINION and human being have different opinions. Showing a book like Gender Queer to first graders, I would definitely AGREE is inappropriate and the teacher who did so should get a reprimand. But to think that every (or even MANY) first graders are being shown that book is beyond absurd.

Where we may differ is I DO think it's appropriate for a high school student and at that age, that if a parent doesn't want their kid to read it, then they should be having their OWN CONVERSATION and set their OWN expectations with their OWN children because there are, very likely, more than a few parents who would be fine with having their kid read that book.

Teachers can and DO say that. But, again, sometimes parents definitions of "obscene" is different from their teacher.

 

[rjs330]

Yes it was. The answer was just less binary (yes/no) than you'd hoped.

I am sorry you don't like my answer but that was my experience as a student, teacher and parent.

See this why our education system cannot be trusted. When teachers can't say kids should not be exposed to obscene and sexually explicit material then we have a real problem with the education system. This is precisely why we can't trust teachers or the

I'm not sure that avoiding telling your kids not do something because they may then try it out anyway is the best parenting advice. And you should explain why, as I did above. The father didn't think that a book about various aspects of sex was the best way to learn about it.

I mean, doesn't everyone do this? My parents did it with me, I did it with my kids. And now they do it with theirs. I certainly didn't need the government to decide for me what I thought was suitable or not. Let's face it, the very first thing I would ask a parent who wanted some book banned would be 'Why not simply tell your child not to read it?' If they say that they don't trust them, then that is the problem that needs to be addressed.

Pushing the government to ban books so that your kid cannot read them is absolving yourself of your parental responsibilities.

So yes let's put sexually graphic and obscene books in the kids libraries and tell them not to read them. Sounds like a great idea.

You've said this before. And it still makes no sense. Why not just put hustler magazines in there too. Then we'll just tell the kids not to read it look at them.

 

[rambot]

See this why our education system cannot be trusted. When teachers can't say kids should not be exposed to obscene and sexually explicit material then we have a real problem with the education system. This is precisely why we can't trust teachers or the

So yes let's put sexually graphic and obscene books in the kids libraries and tell them not to read them. Sounds like a great idea.

You've said this before. And it still makes no sense. Why not just put hustler magazines in there too. Then we'll just tell the kids not to read it look at them.

When you say "kids" are you referring to ages 5-18? Do you differentiate and allow that kids develope and mature and recognize that teens should be given different material than early elementary students?

 

[rambot]

.

 

[rjs330]

I'm not sure why you are having trouble grasping the concept that what "obscene" means is VERY different to different people.

It's not a matter of not "trusting", it's a matter of recognizing that this is a matter of OPINION and human being have different opinions. Showing a book like Gender Queer to first graders, I would definitely AGREE is inappropriate and the teacher who did so should get a reprimand. But to think that every (or even MANY) first graders are being shown that book is beyond absurd.

Where we may differ is I DO think it's appropriate for a high school student and at that age, that if a parent doesn't want their kid to read it, then they should be having their OWN CONVERSATION and set their OWN expectations with their OWN children because there are, very likely, more than a few parents who would be fine with having their kid read that book.

Teachers can and DO say that. But, again, sometimes parents definitions of "obscene" is different from their teacher.

No, obscene has a definition. Sexually explicit is also defined.

Sexually explicit Definition | Law Insider

Define Sexually explicit. means a pictorial depiction of actual or simulated sexual acts including sexual intercourse, oral sex, or masturbation. Sexually explicit material does not include material of a news or information type. Publications concerning research or opinions on sexual, health, or...

www.lawinsider.com

 

[rambot]

It's not a matter of ME as a teacher. Its a matter of me AS AN EDUCATOR having to catering to the most insane reactionary parent.

And yes, I HAVE had a parent complain about pre pubescent, pubscent and adult CARTOONS being shown in class.

You may think you are being reasonable but when you put TOTAL CONTROL in parents, you realize there are a LOT of unreasonable parents.

 

[rjs330]

When you say "kids" are you referring to ages 5-18? Do you differentiate and allow that kids develope and mature and recognize that teens should be given different material than early elementary students?

Obscenity and sexually explicit material is not appropriate for kids of any age from 0-17. 18 year olds are considered adults. At least they are in the US.

The fact that a teacher cannot grasp this concept is very concerning. And speak volumes about the educational system.

 

[rambot]

No, obscene has a definition. Sexually explicit is also defined.

Sexually explicit Definition | Law Insider

Define Sexually explicit. means a pictorial depiction of actual or simulated sexual acts including sexual intercourse, oral sex, or masturbation. Sexually explicit material does not include material of a news or information type. Publications concerning research or opinions on sexual, health, or...

www.lawinsider.com

What are you even talking about? Just because something has a definition, doesn't mean the application of it isn't subjective.

Art has a definition and it's subjective. Every word is in the dictionary; You are implying there are no subjectively applied words in the English language?

 

[rjs330]

It's not a matter of ME as a teacher. Its a matter of me AS AN EDUCATOR having to catering to the most insane reactionary parent.

And yes, I HAVE had a parent complain about pre pubescent, pubscent and adult CARTOONS being shown in class.

You may think you are being reasonable but when you put TOTAL CONTROL in parents, you realize there are a LOT of unreasonable parents.

I don't care about who's complained. Parents can complain about anything. But the moment a teacher cannot explain that obscene and sexually explicit and graphic material should not be shown to kids and that it's fine if it's part of a sex ed class is really disturbing.

And the question becomes at what age is it appropriate for sex ed classes and what should be a part of those classes for various age groups. I don't know the age of the kids who were shown those drawings or the parent who complained.

So what if they complain. Some parents are unreasonable. But when we can't get a teacher to admit that obscene material is not appropriate then we have a problem.

 

[rambot]

I don't care about who's complained. Parents can complain about anything. But the moment a teacher cannot explain that obscene and sexually explicit and graphic material should not be shown to kids and that it's fine if it's part of a sex ed class is really disturbing.

I can't handle how this miscommunication keeps carrying on. I thought I was being pretty direct in explaining and it seems you can't seem to connect the two fundamental points.

So instead of beating my head against a wall, I'll stick to "toodles".

 

[rambot]

The fact that a teacher cannot grasp this concept is very concerning. And speak volumes about the educational system.

Oh, don't think I can't grasp it. You're mistaken.

I grasp it COMPLETELY. I disagree.


I just hold a different view than you. I think 16, 17, and 18 yr old can handle some measure of explicit material and it doesn't turn them into anything they didn't already want to be.


I'm also still waiting for any evidence whatsoever for them to underscore their point that BOOKS are doing ANYTHING AT ALL to these children. But of course you'll find none cause their is none on BOOKS.

 

[rjs330]

Oh, don't think I can't grasp it. You're mistaken.

I grasp it COMPLETELY. I disagree.


I just hold a different view than you. I think 16, 17, and 18 yr old can handle some measure of explicit material and it doesn't turn them into anything they didn't already want to be.


I'm also still waiting for any evidence whatsoever for them to underscore their point that BOOKS are doing ANYTHING AT ALL to these children. But of course you'll find none cause their is none on BOOKS.

Seriously you think that the studies done on exposing kids to sexually explicit and obscene material does not apply to books? Where is the logic in that?
Exposing them to movies-bad
Exposing them to magazines-bad
Exposing them to books with graphic pictures-we don't know.

Give me a break.

 

[rjs330]

I can't handle how this miscommunication keeps carrying on. I thought I was being pretty direct in explaining and it seems you can't seem to connect the two fundamental points.

So instead of beating my head against a wall, I'll stick to "toodles".

Of course you can't handle this. Cause you can't defend your position that it's okay to expose kids to obscene and sexually explicit material is okay as long as it's a sex ed class.

As I said, pure evidence that the education system can't be trusted.

 

[Larniavc]

Are sex es classes obscene and graphic?

This apparently is.

Florida Charter School Principal fired after not warning parents in advance 6th grade class would see Michelangelo's David

Warning: article contains full frontal statuary! Florida school principal says she was fired for teaching children about Michelangelo’s David A parent called the lesson ‘inappropriate contentographic’ The former principal explained that the school is required by law to teach lessons on...

www.christianforums.com

smh

 

[rambot]

Of course you can't handle this. Cause you can't defend your position that it's okay to expose kids to obscene and sexually explicit material is okay as long as it's a sex ed class.

As I said, pure evidence that the education system can't be trusted.

You keep demonstrating that you don't understand me.

 

[rambot]

Seriously you think that the studies done on exposing kids to sexually explicit and obscene material does not apply to books? Where is the logic in that?
Exposing them to movies-bad
Exposing them to magazines-bad
Exposing them to books with graphic pictures-we don't know.

Give me a break.

Then provide the studies.

Seriously. Provide them if you're so cocksure.