DeSantis Debunks Book Ban Hoax

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Yes, and on the whole, they're awful, a waste of 2 hours of your life. I'm just wondering whether they're illegal in the state of Florida.

They probably won't be found in elementary school libraries, at any rate...

 

[rjs330]

But we are taking it as read that that is an outcome.

Do you have some research or data to support that?

What if reading these books ends up being protective factors?

In the same way that telling kids about birth control is a GOOD THING which leads to POSITIVE statistical outcomes even though to some people it is morally questionable and harmful.

Since when has obscene and sexually graphic content ever had protective factors?

 

[Ana the Ist]

But we are taking it as read that that is an outcome.

Do you have some research or data to support that?

Yes. The APA did a comprehensive study on the sexualization of young girls in childhood across multiple mediums...including education....back in 2014. If you want the short version of the results....it's bad.

Then there's also the fact that teaching children about sexual behavior and it's related topics are considered "grooming" techniques by child abuse prevention advocates. The reason being is children are impressionable, and normalizing any such behavior in their minds is the first step towards engaging in such behavior.

What if reading these books ends up being protective factors?

What if?

One would think that instead of experimenting on children, you would already have evidence of any of this garbage being of benefit to children in any way.


You don't, because this isn't intended for the benefit of children.

 

[rambot]

Since when has obscene and sexually graphic content ever had protective factors?

Sex Education classes.

[mic drop]

 

[rambot]

Yes. The APA did a comprehensive study on the sexualization of young girls in childhood across multiple mediums...including education....back in 2014. If you want the short version of the results....it's bad.

Nobody is arguing that there is a sexualization amongst children. That has been going on for...i dunno, decades at least. I'm not talking about broad strokes education, we were talking specifically about books. I'd love to see the study if you happen to know the link for it.

NVM, I think I found it. I also found this:

Evidence for the sexualization of girls​

Virtually every media form studied provides ample evidence of the sexualization of women, including television, music videos, music lyrics, movies, magazines, sports media, video games, the Internet and advertising (e.g., Gow, 1996; Grauerholz & King, 1997; Krassas, Blauwkamp,& Wesselink, 2001, 2003; Lin, 1997; Plous & Neptune, 1997; Vincent, 1989; Ward, 1995). Some studies have examined forms of media that are especially popular with children and adolescents, such as video games and teen-focused magazines.

seems crazy that ACTUAL books are not on that list (and, ps. notice the dates). This is not a new issue.

Then there's also the fact that teaching children about sexual behavior and it's related topics are considered "grooming" techniques by child abuse prevention advocates. The reason being is children are impressionable, and normalizing any such behavior in their minds is the first step towards engaging in such behavior.

Source?
Heard plenty of stories of people realizing that they were actually in abusive situations ONLY BECAUSE they had learned it in a sex ed class. Of course, ages are pretty important here and broadly using the term "child/children" is not really specific enough.

One would think that instead of experimenting on children, you would already have evidence of any of this garbage being of benefit to children in any way.

I know plenty of children who play dress up. My son and daughter were included in that list. They turned out just fine.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Nobody is arguing that there is a sexualization amongst children.

Including me. I'm talking specifically about in school curriculum.

Source?
Heard plenty of stories of people realizing that they were actually in abusive situations ONLY BECAUSE they had learned it in a sex ed class.

Grooming

Children and young people can be groomed online or in the real world, by a stranger or by someone they know. If you're worried about a child, we have advice to help.

www.nspcc.org.uk

Under signs of grooming...

• sexualised behaviour, language or an understanding of sex that's not appropriate for their age

Grooming: Know the Warning Signs | RAINN

One tool common to those who sexually abuse kids and teens is grooming: manipulative behaviors that the abuser uses to gain access to a potential victim, coerce them to agree to the abuse, and reduce the risk of being caught. Though grooming can take many different forms, it often follows a...

www.rainn.org

Abusers may also show the victim pornography or discuss sexual topics with them, to introduce the idea of sexual contact.


I mean, it's basically a universal common sense sort of thing. That's why these explicitly sexually graphic books aren't the sort of thing that belong in children's schools. Of course, it's also why we don't need teachers explaining sexual topics to children in K-3rd grade.

Nobody really cares about your anecdotes of whatever. You don't have any good reason to make these things part of school kids curriculum.

I know plenty of children who play dress up. My son and daughter were included in that list. They turned out just fine.

We aren't talking about "playing dress up". We're talking about the sexualization of children in schools. See the thread topic.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sex Education classes.

[mic drop]

Since when have K-3rd graders needed sex ed classes?

[Mic drop]

 

[rambot]

Since when have K-3rd graders needed sex ed classes?

[Mic drop]

We have them up here in Canada. It's not really "sex ed" in the way it's conventionally understood but yes we have it hear.

I'd wager most places in the US have the same kind of information given to their kids but I suppose it could be wrong.

 

[Ana the Ist]

We have them up here in Canada. It's not really "sex ed" in the way it's conventionally understood but yes we have it hear.

I have no idea what you have up in Canada, nor do I seek to emulate it.

I'd wager most places in the US have the same kind of information given to their kids but I suppose it could be wrong.

You would be wrong. We typically have sex ed basics in middle school at the soonest, and a more in depth sex ed in high school....though it varies some state to state.

Look....you've been in these various book banning threads that have been going on for close to a year now, right? Parents trying to get books removed from their children's libraries, parents getting them removed from classrooms....even a thread that I recall where an entire library was defunded because they refused to remove these books....

I don't remember exactly what you posted or in which threads. I'm not wrong, am I? You were defending these books in some of them right?

Buddy, friend, guy....here's your big chance. Go click on the link in the OP. At the top of the page is a video player with a caption that says click here to begin video presentation. Click on the link and watch the video. It's going to show what is in those books you've been defending....right from their own pages. Yes, it's the same books. You can go back to any of those threads about parents who want to ban books from schools and see the book titles in those articles. The video is going to show you what's in the books themselves.

It can't possibly be easier, you have no excuse for not seeing what is in the books you're defending.

Once you watched the video....tell me what you think is going to be appropriate for a school kids library. We don't post guards around these books to ensure only the appropriate age checks them out. Librarians don't prevent 8yo children from reading something in the library. Any of those books is a book a child would be able to access....and I would like to know which one's you think are appropriate.

 

[rambot]

I have no idea what you have up in Canada, nor do I seek to emulate it.

Yeah? You like your teen pregnancy rates high do ya?

You would be wrong. We typically have sex ed basics in middle school at the soonest, and a more in depth sex ed in high school....though it varies some state to state.

Really? Crazy. Ours start in gr4 with conversations around your bodies happenning in gr2.

Look....you've been in these various book banning threads that have been going on for close to a year now, right? Parents trying to get books removed from their children's libraries, parents getting them removed from classrooms....even a thread that I recall where an entire library was defunded because they refused to remove these books....

I don't remember exactly what you posted or in which threads. I'm not wrong, am I? You were defending these books in some of them right?

Buddy, friend, guy....here's your big chance. Go click on the link in the OP. At the top of the page is a video player with a caption that says click here to begin video presentation. Click on the link and watch the video. It's going to show what is in those books you've been defending....right from their own pages. Yes, it's the same books. You can go back to any of those threads about parents who want to ban books from schools and see the book titles in those articles. The video is going to show you what's in the books themselves.

It can't possibly be easier, you have no excuse for not seeing what is in the books you're defending.

Once you watched the video....tell me what you think is going to be appropriate for a school kids library. We don't post guards around these books to ensure only the appropriate age checks them out. Librarians don't prevent 8yo children from reading something in the library. Any of those books is a book a child would be able to access....and I would like to know which one's you think are appropriate.

I saw a few of the books already. I searched them out online and looked through several of them.

If gender queer was being shown to gr1-3 I agree that's inappropriate. But high school? Sure.

What I know is not happening is what I hear the pearl grabbers complaining about.

There have been plenty of books banned in Florida that should NOT have been banned. Yes there are some shocking books that I can understand why folks would have a problem with it. But there are many MORE books where it is clearly NOT about sexuality or protecting children so much as about shielding children from the knowledge of experiences different from theirs.

Banning a book about having two dads should not be happening. Banning a book for children because genitals are showing, okay. I disagree but I see the logic. One of my issue is that these two are being conflated.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yeah? You like your teen pregnancy rates high do ya?

No...but I like our child sex abuse rates even less. As it stands, there aren't a whole lot of K-3rd graders getting pregnant so I'll rethink it if it ever becomes an issue.

Really? Crazy. Ours start in gr4 with conversations around your bodies happenning in gr2.

How's that working out?

Former Greater Victoria teacher given lifetime ban after child pornography conviction

Former elementary school teacher Travis Curry Mitchell sentenced in 2021

www.thenorthernview.com

I saw a few of the books already. I searched them out online and looked through several of them.

If gender queer was being shown to gr1-3 I agree that's inappropriate. But high school? Sure.

Ok.

What I know is not happening is what I hear the pearl grabbers complaining about.

Which is?

There have been plenty of books banned in Florida that should NOT have been banned.

Examples?

I know there's a thread or two referencing a list of books a conservative group wants banned but I've seen very few articles about what is banned.

Yes there are some shocking books that I can understand why folks would have a problem with it. But there are many MORE books where it is clearly NOT about sexuality or protecting children so much as about shielding children from the knowledge of experiences different from theirs.

Such as?

Banning a book about having two dads should not be happening. Banning a book for children because genitals are showing, okay. I disagree but I see the logic. One of my issue is that these two are being conflated.

Well let's see what you're talking about first or I'd rather not waste my time with empty speculation.

Gender Queer is a book that has been widely reported on in these book banning stories....and many of the other titles are just as sexually graphic and disturbing.

 

[rjs330]

Sex Education classes.

[mic drop]

Are sex es classes obscene and graphic?

 

[rjs330]

Really? Crazy. Ours start in gr4 with conversations around your bodies happenning in gr2.

Is it obscene and sexually graphic?

 

[rjs330]

Sex Education classes.

[mic drop]

So you are for showing kids obscene and sexually graphic material?

 

[rambot]

So you are for showing kids obscene and sexually graphic material?

I'm for upper elementary kids being show pictures of naked people to help them understand how their bodies will change.

 

[rambot]

Is it obscene and sexually graphic?

For people who think ANY nudity is those things, yes. But for a reasonable rational person, no.

 

[Bradskii]

Hey, Billy.
Dad. What's up?
Look, I've heard there's a book that's available in the school library called XXX. Heard about it?
Don't think so...why?
Well, it's a book that your mother and I don't think is suitable for people your age. It's about...sex. You know?
Gee, dad...
Yeah, I know. It's kind of an awkward subject. But it's important and we don't think you should be learning about it from books like the one I mentioned.
Sure. So you don't want me to read it?
Yeah, that's right. If you have any questions about anything, then your mother and I are happy to discuss them with you. That OK?
Yeah. Sure dad. No problem.

Maybe parents don't have these type of conversations in Florida. About books, about films, about the internet, about graphic novels.

Anyone know why?

 

[rjs330]

I'm for upper elementary kids being show pictures of naked people to help them understand how their bodies will change.

Are you for showing upper ages obscene and graphically sexual material?

 

[rjs330]

For people who think ANY nudity is those things, yes. But for a reasonable rational person, no.

That's not what I asked.

 

[rambot]

That's not what I asked.

Yes it was. The answer was just less binary (yes/no) than you'd hoped.

I am sorry you don't like my answer but that was my experience as a student, teacher and parent.