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Are we subject to the Old Covenant today?

LW97Nils

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Agreed, the only thing that ended at the cross were the ordinances Col 2:14, Eph 2:15 as they pointed to Jesus who became our Sacrifice for sins. God's Ten Commandments are eternal Revelation 11:19 and is what defines what sin is Romans 7:7 so we know what not to break.
Correct. The dietary laws are one example. Originally, every living thing was given for food. The prohibition for certain meats - some say not every animal classified as meat, but as I have shown, they do - was never even universally, it was limited to the nation of Israel. "Swine" (Matthew 7:6) under the New Covenant are "Christians" living in wicked sins.
 
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Studyman

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Then we agree :) My point was that back then people were not cleansed of their sins, their sins were merely covered

I don’t agree with that. What did God direct Nathan to tell David?

The hard question is, if you find a belief you have adopted to be contrary to scriptures, do you reject the scriptures, or amend your belief?
 
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LW97Nils

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The hard question is, if you find a belief you have adopted to be contrary to scriptures, do you reject the scriptures, or amend your belief?
Amend my belief. And also check to whom it is directed. Some cannot be directe to me. Such as the Nazarite vow :) As for Isaiah 64:6, my position stands, it cannot be applied to the New Testament Israel (the Church), for if it was so, we would have to suggest even believers were not free from sin and still sinning daily (for Isaiah included himself - "all our"). That is why the Old Testament saints - such as Abraham - were in paradise in Hades, not drawn up in heaven prior to Christ (John 12:32).
 
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LW97Nils

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I don’t agree with that. What did God direct Nathan to tell David?
That his sins were forgiven? Yes. Taken away? No.
For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord God. Jeremiah 2:22
 
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Studyman

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Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. Genesis 9:3

Well there you go. Feed your children a poison dart frog or a jellyfish, and when your children die, tell the cops, and God, that you are innocent, and show them this verse.

Or, you might consider the Words of Jesus, and His Father’s Words, “Man shall live by Every Word of God”, and consider His Words to Noah and Moses that Jesus lived by.
 
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LW97Nils

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Well there you go. Feed your children a poison dart frog or a jellyfish, and when your children die, tell the cops, and God, that you are innocent, and show them this verse.
Friend, such shows a lack of discernment. It is a wrong way to approach the Bible. There also is no commandment called "thou shalt not abort your unborn child", yet we do know it is a form or murder. Likewise, there is no commandment called "thou shalt not take drugs" either, but we know it is a form of witchcraft. As for, well, shellfish, pork, swans etc., they are not like that. I am aware of the typical Hebrew Roots sarcasm, but we must look at things realistically. I have eaten those things and lived. Those things are allegories refering to unclean people. If we were to take it in a literal sense, we also had to preach against owning dogs. See Matthew 7:6. Both swine and dogs are obviously a reference to what? People! :)
Sadly, GMO is in a lot of food today. In general, I am an advocate for growing your own food.
 
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LW97Nils

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Feed your children a poison dart frog or a jellyfish, and when your children die, tell the cops, and God, that you are innocent, and show them this verse.
Are people not smart enough to know what kills and what not? We also aren't told by scripture not eat a rotten apple, but I do not know of anyone who would use a Bible verse to justify eating a rotten apple. Or do you?
Those things you listed kill not because of their meat, but because there's poison in it. Where is your discernment? Following this logic, we wouldn't able to find a verse to condemn watching porn either. But our God given common sense shows why it is wrong. God is not dead, is He?
 
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Studyman

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No one stated he was. But to suggest there were no changes at all is a lie.

Divorce and remarriage under Moses:
When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife. And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the Lord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance. Deuteronomy 24:1

What did Christ say?
It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: but I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. Matthew 5:31-32

Is fornication not uncleanness? How is Jesus saying anything different than Moses?




The allowance to divorce and remarry was only temporary. Christ explains why.
The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Matthew 19:3-9

Lol, yes men were not to harden their hearts and women were not to commit fornication.
 
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LW97Nils

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Is fornication not uncleanness? How is Jesus saying anything different than Moses?
It is. Which would confirm the point I made.
Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her. Leviticus 18:20
 
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LW97Nils

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Well there you go. Feed your children a poison dart frog or a jellyfish, and when your children die, tell the cops, and God, that you are innocent, and show them this verse.

Or, you might consider the Words of Jesus, and His Father’s Words, “Man shall live by Every Word of God”, and consider His Words to Noah and Moses that Jesus lived by.
The problem with this anti pork agenda is that it is based on switching off your brain. The lack of rightly dividing is a problem. The Roman Catholic Chuch already made this mistake to literally eat Christ's flesh and literally drink His blood.
 
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Studyman

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Friend, such shows a lack of discernment. It is a wrong way to approach the Bible. There also is no commandment called "thou shalt not abort your unborn child", yet we do know it is a form or murder.

Taking a life is taking a life. God didn’t put an age limit on it, man did.



Likewise, there is no commandment called "thou shalt not take drugs" either, but we know it is a form of witchcraft.

Disobedience is a form of witchcraft, creating your own high days, definitions of sin, clean and holy is witchcraft. Taking an aspirin or a drink of wine is not. In my view.

Eating a poison dart frog or jellyfish is a direct disobedience to the God of the Bible. Now you may not believe it is, or you religion may not teach it is, but according to your Bible, it is.

Shall we not at least consider what is written?


As for, well, shellfish, pork, swans etc., they are not like that. I am aware of the typical Hebrew Roots sarcasm, but we must look at things realistically. I have eaten those things and lived.

The Jews killed Jesus and Stephen and lived. I’m not sure what you point is.


Those things are allegories refering to unclean people. If we were to take it in a literal sense, we also had to preach against owning dogs.

Where? Who taught you this? Are bees clean? Is honey clean?

Is a donkey clean?

How can a thief, who refuses to stop stealing, read scriptures and gain knowledge? What does Paul say happens to men who know God, but don’t Glorify Him as God?

Am I immune from this truth because I call Jesus Lord?


See Matthew 7:6. Both swine and dogs are obviously a reference to what? People! :)
Sadly, GMO is in a lot of food today. In general, I am an advocate for growing your own food.

And what people did Jesus consider unclean? Those who obeyed God, or those who laid aside the commandments of God in order to live in their own man made religious traditions?

At what point will you answer some of my questions?
 
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Studyman

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It is. Which would confirm the point I made.
Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her. Leviticus 18:20

Yes, the man is defiled with her, her husband, according to Moses and Jesus, has grounds for divorce. Again, how is what Jesus said, any different than what God said through Moses?
 
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LW97Nils

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And what people did Jesus consider unclean? Those who obeyed God, or those who laid aside the commandments of God in order to live in their own man made religious traditions?
The latter group of course. I just find it ridiculous to put a pork eater on the same step as an adulterer or a sodomite. The latter kill, the former does not. Prayer has the power to cleanse meats (of course only if there is no poison in it). And I am afraid you are adding religious traditions also. By making something physical literal, see Colossians 2:20-23. Only lately I have come across one of those men on Twitter :) The very gentlemen agreed with you on the "unclean meats", yet smoked cigar and drank whiskey (not saying you were doing the same, just saying you are missing the point).
Eating a poison dart frog or jellyfish is a direct disobedience to the God of the Bible. Now you may not believe it is, or you religion may not teach it is, but according to your Bible, it is.
Indeed. However, because the poison in it, not because of the meat. In Japan, puffer fish is often served, BUT it must be cooked correctly it will kill you. That indeed would be a disobedience to God. If it however IS cooked correctly, I see no disobedience in it.
Where? Who taught you this? Are bees clean? Is honey clean?
Honey of itself? Of course (Romans 14:14). However, most of the honey you buy today however is full of chemicals, it is not natural honey.
How can a thief, who refuses to stop stealing, read scriptures and gain knowledge?
Not at all. Because he is in violation of the 10 commandments :) While eating puffer fish - only if cooked correctly - is not a violation.
Taking a life is taking a life. God didn’t put an age limit on it, man did.
Correct.
 
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LW97Nils

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Yes, the man is defiled with her, her husband, according to Moses and Jesus, has grounds for divorce. Again, how is what Jesus said, any different than what God said through Moses?
Jesus said from the beginning it was not so.
 
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Studyman

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The problem with this anti pork agenda is that it is based on switching off your brain. The lack of rightly dividing is a problem. The Roman Catholic Chuch already made this mistake to literally eat Christ's flesh and literally drink His blood.

I am not anti-pork. I just trust God to define for me, like Jesus did, what is food and what is not. Pigs and maggots have a purpose, just not for food, at least according to God. If I refuse to accept His Judgments regarding something as easy and understandable as food, how can I trust His Judgment on anything?
 
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LW97Nils

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I am not anti-pork. I just trust God to define for me, like Jesus did, what is food and what is not. Pigs and maggots have a purpose, just not for food, at least according to God.
So God did not mean what He said in Genesis 9:3? Had God meant "every clean moving thing", he would've stated it, as he did here:
And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. Genesis 8:20

As I have shown from my study in Leviticus 11, it was clear that those things were supposed to be an abomination only to the people of Israel (which I agree includes not only Jews, but also gentiles, but certainly not those without a citizenship), not a general abomination like sodomy or crossdressing. While our job is to abstain from the pollutions of the world (Colossians 2:8, 1 John 2:15). We are not in an earthly nation, are we? (Philippians 3:20)

If we wish to equalize citizenship in Mosaic Israel to salvation, then those with a disability or those born outside a covenant marriage had no chance to enter.
 
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LW97Nils

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I just trust God to define for me, like Jesus did, what is food and what is not.
As do I. I would not classify KFC as "food", even though chicken of themselves may not be unclean.

For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Romans 14:2

Paul could simply have written "that he may eat meats", but he did not. If Paul was wrong or unclear about that, then he'd be in trouble...

But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Matthew 12:36

Which also would have made Christ irresponsible for allowing Paul to preach with leaven. Gladly, it was not so! EVERY word Paul wrote down without exception was given by the LORD, amen? :)
 
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LW97Nils

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If I refuse to accept His Judgments regarding something as easy and understandable as food, how can I trust His Judgment on anything?
Correct. You confirmed my point. Food is an issue easy to understand. Acts 15:28-29 then would have adressed pork, swans etc. too. It did not, yet pagans had been doing both, eating pork and eating things with blood in it also. Talking about that, none of the things adressed in Acts 15:28-29 were first mentioned in the Mosaic Law :) Genesis already did. In fact, the entire 10 commandments can be found in the book of Genesis, Moses was it merely who wrote them in stone. He however did write down other laws that were given first and had not been given for the first 2,500 years in human history.
 
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Valletta

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The problem with this anti pork agenda is that it is based on switching off your brain. The lack of rightly dividing is a problem. The Roman Catholic Chuch already made this mistake to literally eat Christ's flesh and literally drink His blood.
John 6:53-56 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him."
 
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LW97Nils

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John 6:53-56 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him."
Amen :) Not cannibalism, of course.
 
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