Do you think we will have hobbies in heaven?

[DavidPT]

Ammillennialists allegorize all of that to make it just be something internal within the church, and basically just turn everything into religion.
All the promises of God = Christianity will be the dominant religion of the world is their interpretation.

In some cases, though you likely disagree, I feel they are correct to do so. I just don't feel they need to do that with every single prophecy in the OT, though. Meaning prophecies obviously pertaining to an era of time after Christ has been born. We have to keep in mind, Christ has two comings not just one. Yet Amils have a habit of applying everything recorded in the OT involving a time after Christ has been born, with that of the church age between His first and 2nd coming. As if nothing, or very little, is applicable to a time post His 2nd coming.

As to Isaiah 11, some of that is applicable to this age prior to the 2nd coming. Yet some of it isn't. Verses 6-8 certainly aren't.

Do some interpreters think there will no longer be any literal animals post the 2nd coming?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Do some interpreters think there will no longer be any literal animals post the 2nd coming?

If anyone tries to come up with a literalist method of interpretation, they will insist on literal animals where the wolf will literally sit next to the lamb to fit their doctrine. Not lion with lamb since God's Word is very specific with his prophecies because it has spiritual signification for those with spiritual ears to hear.

 

[Jamdoc]

In some cases, though you likely disagree, I feel they are correct to do so. I just don't feel they need to do that with every single prophecy in the OT, though. Meaning prophecies obviously pertaining to an era of time after Christ has been born. We have to keep in mind, Christ has two comings not just one. Yet Amils have a habit of applying everything recorded in the OT involving a time after Christ has been born, with that of the church age between His first and 2nd coming. As if nothing, or very little, is applicable to a time post His 2nd coming.

As to Isaiah 11, some of that is applicable to this age prior to the 2nd coming. Yet some of it isn't. Verses 6-8 certainly aren't.

Do some interpreters think there will no longer be any literal animals post the 2nd coming?

If the fulfillment of God's promises are just "Christianity will be the most popular religion in an ongoing sin corrupted fallen world until the heat death of the universe" then God is disappointing and impotent, using grandiose language for very mundane things.

 

[LW97Nils]

As Isaiah says, we will take joy in growing food and eating it. Doing things with our hands, like building our own houses. Not labor intensive like we know in this sinful world, but joyous activity.

Exactly

(Amazing how this turned out into a debate over amillenialism LOL)

 

[LW97Nils]

Imagine building your own house without having to hammer nails, saw logs or hew stone.

Well, that is not one I'm gonna go with. In our glorified bodies, will it all become boring? I don't think so. If heaven is just a place where everything goes easy... it would be boring. I sincerely doubt this is what Isaiah meant. For he still talks about building and planting. We certainly will be as the angels in eternity... but as God? Certainly not.

 

[TribulationSigns]

If the fulfillment of God's promises are just "Christianity will be the most popular religion in an ongoing sin corrupted fallen world until the heat death of the universe" then God is disappointing and impotent, using grandiose language for very mundane things.

What are you talking about?! I do not think you really understand the purpose and plan God has for His Church on Earth. We had a great commission since the Pentecost that God empowered us with the Holy Spirit to preach the Gospel to the rest of the world then the end will come. It is not about making "Christianity" popular religion at all! Because it is not!

Mat 24:13-14
(13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
(14) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Our job is to preach Gospel until God see that we have secured all of the Elect He intended to be seal has been sealed, THEN the time of the end come including the apostasy of the church and the judgment of the harlot prior to Second Coming.

Rev 7:1-3
(1) And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
(2) And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
(3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Christ has bound Satan so he could build His Church through His witnesses who got the great commission from God to do this! He seals (saves) people through our witnesses! After we have secured the last elect (only God knows), THEN the end will come. That will be when the church starts to slide into apostasy and desolation when the day of salvation actually over! at leasT for a short season! That is why the number of "alive and remain" Elects are getting smaller and smaller as the "short season" proceeds. There will NOT be very many faithful church on Earth when Christ returns!

Luk 18:8
(8) I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

So do you honestly think Christianity is going to be a popular religion today, humm?

 

[LW97Nils]

Pets is something I should have adressed also. Will pets be in heaven? Yes, indeed. The question would be merely, will it be the exact same creatures? Well, not according to Ecclesiastes 3:21. Animals cease to exist. Instead, OTHER pets will come into existance

 

[Jamdoc]

Pets is something I should have adressed also. Will pets be in heaven? Yes, indeed. The question would be merely, will it be the exact same creatures? Well, not according to Ecclesiastes 3:21. Animals cease to exist. Instead, OTHER pets will come into existance

I don't know about individual pets, but animals yes.
The exception and the thing that makes my heart sink is this:

Revelation 16

3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

combined with this from Revelation 21

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

So all sea life killed,... and not created anew.
It's just gone.

and in the beginning God said
Genesis 1

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

So God apparently changed His mind.
It's like a permanent price to be paid for our sin that God does not restore these animals that had done nothing wrong, it's our fault that they are killed eternally. That weighs on me.

 

[Jamdoc]

Our job is to preach Gospel until God see that we have secured all of the Elect He intended to be seal has been sealed, THEN the time of the end come including the apostasy of the church and the judgment of the harlot prior to Second Coming.

and there it is.. the "the angel was wrong, it really means this" reinterpretation of what was already interpreted by an angel in Revelation 17.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Pets is something I should have adressed also. Will pets be in heaven? Yes, indeed. The question would be merely, will it be the exact same creatures? Well, not according to Ecclesiastes 3:21. Animals cease to exist. Instead, OTHER pets will come into existance

The answer is NO!

Do our Pets and Animals go to Heaven?

 

[TribulationSigns]

and there it is.. the "the angel was wrong, it really means this" reinterpretation of what was already interpreted by an angel in Revelation 17.

Huh?! What does one of the seven angels which had the seven vials about the woman the beast have to do with my post? I do not think you even understand or receive what I wrote anyway. Speak up and explain to us yourself what I wrote earlier has to do with Revelation 17 angel?!

 

[ozso]

I think we'll go on to do far greater and more fantastic things than earthly hobbies. I'd say our current hobbies are just a shadow of things to come.

 

[ozso]

Pets is something I should have adressed also. Will pets be in heaven? Yes, indeed. The question would be merely, will it be the exact same creatures? Well, not according to Ecclesiastes 3:21. Animals cease to exist. Instead, OTHER pets will come into existance

You have to remember that we'll also have a new earth to inhabit. So while domestic animals might not exist in the heaven realm, they could easily exist on the new earth.

The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. Isaiah 11:6

 

[LW97Nils]

combined with this from Revelation 21


So all sea life killed,... and not created anew.
It's just gone.

I don't think it's talking about sea in sense of an ocean.

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." Revelation 20:13

Which type of "sea" could it be? Time to go a few verses back...

"and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

 

[LW97Nils]

I think we'll go on to do far greater and more fantastic things than earthly hobbies. I'd say our current hobbies are just a shadow of things to come.

Indeed, but some things that are being done now will be done even then, yet even greater. See eating. You'll be able to eat as much as you want without getting sick. Hiking will be done still, and you won't get tired. Just to name a few examples.

 

[LW97Nils]

So God apparently changed His mind.
It's like a permanent price to be paid for our sin that God does not restore these animals that had done nothing wrong, it's our fault that they are killed eternally. That weighs on me.

Not according to the context of what the "sea" means I gave you. The word translated as sea is "thalassa", used in Rev. 20:13 too.

 

[Jamdoc]

Huh?! What does one of the seven angels which had the seven vials about the woman the beast have to do with my post? I do not think you even understand or receive what I wrote anyway. Speak up and explain to us yourself what I wrote earlier has to do with Revelation 17 angel?!

You said the great harlot, that is a reference to Babylon the Great is it not?

 

[Jamdoc]

I don't think it's talking about sea in sense of an ocean.

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." Revelation 20:13

Which type of "sea" could it be? Time to go a few verses back...

"and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

"is as the sand of the sea" is using a simile, a metaphor, to basically say that there's more of God's enemies than grains of sand on a beach at the end, 1000 years without Satan and the moment he's released again.. they turn on God,
it is to illustrate how vast the rebellion is against God at the very end, the final nail in the coffin for Satan and his angels and the wicked.

It is not meant to give a definition of "sea"

The only possible other interpretation I could maybe accept is that the sea was supposed to represent gentiles in the old testament, but I haven't exactly seen a cross reference verse to prove that, and it is not given as a simile, metaphor or explained as a symbol within its context.
So unless it's pointing back to a specific old testament symbol, then if it's not presented as a symbol or explained as one, I don't assume symbol, I assume it means exactly what it says.

 

[LW97Nils]

"is as the sand of the sea" is using a simile, a metaphor, to basically say that there's more of God's enemies than grains of sand on a beach at the end, 1000 years without Satan and the moment he's released again.. they turn on God,
it is to illustrate how vast the rebellion is against God at the very end, the final nail in the coffin for Satan and his angels and the wicked.

It is not meant to give a definition of "sea"

The only possible other interpretation I could maybe accept is that the sea was supposed to represent gentiles in the old testament, but I haven't exactly seen a cross reference verse to prove that, and it is not given as a simile, metaphor or explained as a symbol within its context.
So unless it's pointing back to a specific old testament symbol, then if it's not presented as a symbol or explained as one, I don't assume symbol, I assume it means exactly what it says.

That would suit also, however, the dead given up by the sea are certainly not animals, amen? It are people. Another explaination that would come to my mind is the "sea" refering to fire (Revelation 20:9).

 

[Jamdoc]

That would suit also, however, the dead given up by the sea are certainly not animals, amen? It are people. Another explaination that would come to my mind is the "sea" refering to fire (Revelation 20:9).

eh, it's a list of all the dead and showing the totality, all the people who were dead on the earth, the dead who'd drowned at sea and their body could never be recovered and buried, and those who were in hell, it's basically leaving nobody out.

In any of this context it's not presenting sea as a symbol. The seas conceal the bodies lost to it, but at the GWT, they do not escape judgment.

like I said, I've just heard that sea = gentiles, land = israel before, from many teachers, but have not seen a specific passage of scripture to establish this idea.