Is believing/faith a work ?

[SavedByGrace3]

The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

See strongs # 2041:

1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
   1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
   
   
   
3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
   
   A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND
   
   The mind is :
   
   (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.
   
   Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.
   
   So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.
   
   Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20
   
   
   Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
   
   
   20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
   
   How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh
   
   So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..
   
   Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]
   
   But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.

Belief is little more than becoming aware of a fact and acknowledging it to be true by your logical corresponding actions. It is only a "work" insomuch as you are responding to the fact you have come to be aware of. It is a reaction. It is what people do who come into knowledge of any kind. I see the bridge ahead has collapsed. My reaction is to not try to cross that bridge. I see a pot is boiling. My response is to cut back on the heat. These are just the fruit of knowledge.
In Christianity, the initial fruit of discovering that Jesus is Lord of all is to call on His name to be saved. Call that a work if you must. Then you spend the rest of your life in that same vein. You continually learn more truth and respond to that knowledge.
One of my favorite preachers put it this way.
Faith without corresponding actions is dead.

 

[Brightfame52]

I am not teaching salvation by works, though if that is what you want to label what I am teaching, then there are many places where the Bible teaches what you label salvation by works.

Yes you are teaching salvation by works, anytime one conditions salvation on anything a person does, thats works.

 

[Brightfame52]

I'm just gonna keep on saying it till it gets through to you.

It is not me who conditions salvation upon belief, it is the Lord. It is He who said repent and believe. (Mark 1:15) It is He who said believe in the Lord Jesus. (Acts 16:31) It is He who told John to tell the people to believe in the One who would follow, namely Jesus. (Acts 19:4)

The reason He can do this is not because He has ordained our believing to be the means of salvation but because His word is the means of salvation and He always keeps His word. The Lord has promised to save believers! Election is what He then decided to do with those believers. There is nowhere in scripture where it says God chose to make people believe. Election is based on the Lord's fore-knowledge. Who does God know? Believers! He doesn't know unbelievers so Election does not involve them.

It does not negate grace for without grace no-one could see what is needed to believe nor have the power to make a decision freely. Grace momentarily keeps the sin nature at bay so the soul is free to decide for itself. Once a person has made their own decision regarding who Christ is (ie. accept or reject the truth presented) then that same grace, working through the word from which faith comes (Romans 10:17), saves that person.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

Many condition salvation on works, their act of believing, so you are not alone in this grievous error.

 

[Brightfame52]

You are failing to know what the term "works" was meaning back then. It was a system devised by religious men who prescribed deeds that need to be done as to win the approval of God. That is why its called 'works.' Plural!

But, there is one single work (not works) that we must do to be saved. Just one.
Many Jews had been brainwashed by the religious pharisees into doing a long list of works that a Jew had to do in order to be saved.
That is why Jesus was often times asked by people... .."what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

Jesus made it clear that no man is saved by works (plural).

When being asked by his disciples what "works" one needs to do? Jesus responded as follows.

​

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” ​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:28-29​

Believing in Jesus is not 'works.' Not some religious, man-made, devised system to follow to be saved.

In contrast top works? Believing in Jesus is a single work. Its the one work of faith that Jesus approved of that enters a man into salvation.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, ​

it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9​

Words confuse us when we blur their meaning because we become emotionally charged over preaching that does not accurately interpret the Word of God.

So be it. So it is!


grace and peace ........................

Again believing is an act we do, its a work, so if you condition your salvation on your act, you believe in salvation by your works. Say goodbye to Salvation by the Grace of God friend.

 

[Brightfame52]

Belief is little more than becoming aware of a fact and acknowledging it to be true by your logical corresponding actions. It is only a "work" insomuch as you are responding to the fact you have come to be aware of. It is a reaction. It is what people do who come into knowledge of any kind. I see the bridge ahead has collapsed. My reaction is to not try to cross that bridge. I see a pot is boiling. My response is to cut back on the heat. These are just the fruit of knowledge.
In Christianity, the initial fruit of discovering that Jesus is Lord of all is to call on His name to be saved. Call that a work if you must. Then you spend the rest of your life in that same vein. You continually learn more truth and respond to that knowledge.
One of my favorite preachers put it this way.
Faith without corresponding actions is dead.

Again if you condition your salvation on anything you do, did, will do, its a work based salvation friend, I have been explaining this.

 

[Soyeong]

Yes you are teaching salvation by works, anytime one conditions salvation on anything a person does, thats works.

There is a huge difference between salvation having a condition of doing works and salvation being the result of doing works. For example, in Romans 2:13, Paul said that only doers of the law will be justified, so being a doer of the law does not result in our justification, but everyone who will be justified is also a doer of the law. In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of Heaven and that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, in Hebrews 5:9, Jesus is a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him, and that is the same with Titus 2:11-14, so obedience to God's law is a condition that is strongly supported by the Bible, but that are not the result of obedience it it, so you are incorrectly labeling that as salvation by works, which the Bible also strongly speaks against.

 

[Brightfame52]

There is a huge difference between salvation having a condition of doing works and salvation being the result of doing works. For example, in Romans 2:13, Paul said that only doers of the law will be justified, so being a doer of the law does not result in our justification, but everyone who will be justified is also a doer of the law. In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of Heaven and that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, in Hebrews 5:9, Jesus is a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him, and that is the same with Titus 2:11-14, so obedience to God's law is a condition that is strongly supported by the Bible, but that are not the result of obedience it it, so you are incorrectly labeling that as salvation by works, which the Bible also strongly speaks against.

You just dont get it, if you condition salvation on anything you do, believing, repenting, obeying, sneezing it constitutes salvation by works, and forget about grace salvation.

 

[Soyeong]

When our salvation involves being trained by grace to do works, then it is contradictory to think that works being a condition is contrary to grace salvation. The content of a gift can itself be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to drive a Ferrari for an hour, where they can't receive the gift without doing the work of driving it, so it is a condition, but it in no way detracts from it being 100% given as a gift. In John 17:3, eternal life is the experience of knowing God and following God's instructions for how to know Him is a condition for knowing Him, so it is not the case that having any condition is works salvation rather than grace salvation.

 

[GenemZ]

Again believing is an act we do, its a work, so if you condition your salvation on your act, you believe in salvation by your works. Say goodbye to Salvation by the Grace of God friend.

Alright... Be stubborn. And not look again of how works was defined according to the religious system of the day.

And, continue to not think with the Word, and ignore the following while you do.

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” ​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:28-29​

Works = plural. A man made system.

Believing is a singular work is not a man made system. Jesus said that one single work (believing) is God's requirement.


grace and peace.....

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Again if you condition your salvation on anything you do, did, will do, its a work based salvation friend, I have been explaining this.

Not works... inevitable fruit.
Good tree will grow good fruit. It only natural. It does not get you saved. It just happens.

 

[Brightfame52]

Not works... inevitable fruit.
Good tree will grow good fruit. It only natural. It does not get you saved. It just happens.

You noy understanding what Im saying. If a person conditions salvation on anything they do, it constitutes work merit salvation and its contrary to Grace Salvation.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Alright... Be stubborn. And not look again of how works was defined according to the religious system of the day.

And, continue to not think with the Word, and ignore the following while you do.

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” ​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:28-29​

Works = plural. A man made system.

Believing is a singular work is not a man made system. Jesus said that one single work (believing) is God's requirement.


grace and peace.....

Thank you for your effort to inject a bit of sanity into this inane argument. I have refrained simply because I know these folks are much too busy tooting their own horns to actually consider scripture and its context.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

You noy understanding what Im saying. If a person conditions salvation on anything they do, it constitutes work merit salvation and its contrary to Grace Salvation.

I agree. These are not works nor are they required to get saved. I am simply saying that the "works" that occur after the new birth are not "works," they are merely the fruits of the previous planting. I am agreeing with you. I am suggesting to those disagreeing that these are not "works," they are fruit of the previous new birth experience.

The sun will glow
The wind will blow
Trees will grow
And you will know
By the fruit they show

 

[Soyeong]

You noy understanding what Im saying. If a person conditions salvation on anything they do, it constitutes work merit salvation and its contrary to Grace Salvation.

Works can be done for any number of reasons other than in order to merit something, such as an expression of faith and love, so having conditions on salvation does not necessarily constitute as merit salvation rather than grace salvation. The problem is that you are mistaking the many verses that speak against doing works to merit our salvation as speaking against doing works for any reason when there are many verses that show that grace salvation clearly requires us to choose to do works works. Doing good works is intrinsically what it means for Jesus to graciously save us from not doing good works.

 

[Brightfame52]

I agree. These are not works nor are they required to get saved. I am simply saying that the "works" that occur after the new birth are not "works," they are merely the fruits of the previous planting. I am agreeing with you. I am suggesting to those disagreeing that these are not "works," they are fruit of the previous new birth experience.

The sun will glow
The wind will blow
Trees will grow
And you will know
By the fruit they show

So then we talking about 2 different things. Im speaking of them who condition salvation on what they do, even believing and repenting, thats works.

 

[Brightfame52]

Works can be done for any number of reasons other than in order to merit something, such as an expression of faith and love, so having conditions on salvation does not necessarily constitute as merit salvation rather than grace salvation. The problem is that you are mistaking the many verses that speak against doing works to merit our salvation as speaking against doing works for any reason when there are many verses that show that grace salvation clearly requires us to choose to do works works. Doing good works is intrinsically what it means for Jesus to graciously save us from not doing good works.

You dont get it, Im not speaking of post new creation works, Im speaking that if you or anyone, me even, condition their salvation on doing something, like faith or repentance, thats works salvation.

 

[sawdust]

Many condition salvation on works, their act of believing, so you are not alone in this grievous error.

You're not a very good listener are you.

I have already said our act of believing is not what saves us. Believing cannot create the reality of what we believe.

It is God who has decided believing is necessary to salvation. It is His word that saves, not our action.

The real danger in your position is it must necessarily make you infallible because if you believe something, it has to have come from God. Therefore it becomes impossible for you to be corrected. If you have to change your mind about something then it means God doesn't make you believe the truth or it must necessarily mean you are not saved.

There are some who confuse what we believe as the same as having faith. You appear to be one of them.

 

[Brightfame52]

You're not a very good listener are you.

I have already said our act of believing is not what saves us. Believing cannot create the reality of what we believe.

It is God who has decided believing is necessary to salvation. It is His word that saves, not our action.

The real danger in your position is it must necessarily make you infallible because if you believe something, it has to have come from God. Therefore it becomes impossible for you to be corrected. If you have to change your mind about something then it means God doesn't make you believe the truth or it must necessarily mean you are not saved.

There are some who confuse what we believe as the same as having faith. You appear to be one of them.

Again if you condition your salvation on what you do it is works salvation and a departure from salvation by Grace through faith!

 

[sawdust]

Again if you condition your salvation on what you do it is works salvation and a departure from salvation by Grace through faith!

Why do you keep misrepresenting what I say? You keep saying it is me who is conditioning salvation on what I do when it is God who tells us this is what we must do. I'm just doing what God says. He said believe in Jesus. The question is "why are you waiting for God to do what He told you to do?"

I gave you earthly examples of how believing something doesn't cause the thing believed to come to pass. We all believe the sun will rise tomorrow but it is not our believing that makes it rise and shine is it? Of course not. I showed how salvation is dependent on grace working through the word but rather than discuss, you would prefer to put your fingers in your ears and go "blah, blah, blah" and misrepresent what I say. I do not think that is a very nice way to behave.

Now let's see. Will you face the truth of what I am saying or will you prefer to continue with lying about what I'm saying?

 

[Brightfame52]

Why do you keep misrepresenting what I say? You keep saying it is me who is conditioning salvation on what I do when it is God who tells us this is what we must do. I'm just doing what God says. He said believe in Jesus. The question is "why are you waiting for God to do what He told you to do?"

I gave you earthly examples of how believing something doesn't cause the thing believed to come to pass. We all believe the sun will rise tomorrow but it is not our believing that makes it rise and shine is it? Of course not. I showed how salvation is dependent on grace working through the word but rather than discuss, you would prefer to put your fingers in your ears and go "blah, blah, blah" and misrepresent what I say. I do not think that is a very nice way to behave.

Now let's see. Will you face the truth of what I am saying or will you prefer to continue with lying about what I'm saying?

Im not misrepresenting what you say, what you say stands or falls on its own, Im restating my point and the point of the thread. Most people condition their salvation on what they do, like believing, repenting or maybe some kind of obedience. Im letting people know that if we condition salvation on anything we do, it becomes a work merit salvation, law keeping salvation.