Teen's Interaction With Transgender Woman in YMCA Locker Room Sparks Heated Debate

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iluvatar5150

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You must be scared for life because of that.

Less because I had to look at old man junk and more because it was a window into my own future.

More immediately, the bigger issue was the poor ventilation and the perpetually dank smell.
 
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rjs330

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I guess that is why I don't go to the YMCA if the force this kind of behavior.
What happens when they force this behavior in schools like they already have. Or other places. Did you know it's not just the YMCA?

So if it doesn't affect you it doesn't matter?
 
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Larniavc

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Huh? What's that got to do with girls having to get naked with boys?
Good question. Why do you keep bringing it up? It's not like it happened in this instance. The headline should read "Attention seeking teen sees imaginary penis: are teens serial liars?"
 
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Aryeh Jay

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Good question. Why do you keep bringing it up? It's not like it happened in this instance. The headline should read "Attention seeking teen sees imaginary penis: are teens serial liars?"

Its funny, my children attended public school from 2001 to 2018. During this time the religious right was screaming about how God was removed from school. My Jewish kids got to fully experience the Christian monopoly on holidays in school with Saint Valentine's day, Saint Patrick's day, Easter break, and Christmas break. They had to be "sick" in order to attend the fake holidays that the Jews had.

Last year the big thing was all the litter boxes for the kids that identified as cats. Plenty of noise and yet not one school could be named, not one picture of said litter boxes could be taken by a student.

And now, all the kids are being forced to get naked together. As none of my children are in school anymore it really doesn't matter to me but if a parent was so concerned about how the left is performing transgender indoctrination, satanic indoctrination, or litter box indoctrination, then pull your kids out of public school and indoctrinate them yourself.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Here is an actual picture of her

NYPICHPDPICT000005500983.jpg

And here's a video showing an interview and her speaking that's not grainy.

In other words, people can definitely tell. This isn't one of the scenarios where "nobody would know had they not been told"
 
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ThatRobGuy

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If someone comes to me with a problem and can't suggest an equitable solution to it...
I bolded the part "equitable", because society having equity as one of the goals it what makes it tough to find a solution that makes everyone happy.

Obviously it's not equitable or "fair" that all the 5' 8" people who really love basketball can't make the team as frequently as all of the 6' 5" people who love basketball (due to biological differences that are out of their control). But good luck ever finding a solution that doesn't upset one side or the other.
 
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iluvatar5150

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And here's a video showing an interview and her speaking that's not grainy.

In other words, people can definitely tell. This isn't one of the scenarios where "nobody would know had they not been told"

I'd be more concerned about my daughter being exposed to the two vitriol-dripping Karens in that video than I'd be about her being exposed to the trans woman.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Look it it means exposing your breasts to boys or exposing your penis to girls then yes. She shouldn't be doing either. She CHOOSE to do this. She is trans and CHOOSE to alter her body to have breasts and a penis. It shouldn't come as a surprise to not be allowed to expose her breasts to boys or her penis to girls. There are consequences to your actions. And that should be one of them.

This is the problem. A man shouldn't be allowed to be in a woman's locker room and expose himself to them. Then suddenly he get boobs and now he can? What kind of insanity is that?
So, what about then, the scenario of a trans-woman (who may have not had any surgeries as of yet, but chooses to wear makeup and women's clothing), but doesn't have any "parts" associated with women yet. They still use the men's/boy's changing facility at that point?

Or would the people solidly on the "against" side still have an issue with that?

What I'm trying to find here, is the line of practical between the two extreme positions.
 
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Neogaia777

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Like it or not, at some point we are going to have to start setting some rules and boundaries, "including telling people what is absolutely right or else is wrong around these things", etc, because if we don't, all will descend into very great perversion and very great chaos if we don't, etc... Allow me to give you a few examples, and allow me to explain, etc... A little foretaste of things to come, etc...

Right now you're worried about guys and gals, and boys and girls (children) having to see each other naked, or having to be getting undressed in front of one another, long enough to have to say, change clothes or something like that, etc, but, what if a guy or gal, or a boy or a girl (children) wants to say, "play with themselves out in the open or openly in those rooms out in the open and openly for others to see with their own parts", etc? Can you tell them it is either, absolutely right, or else absolutely wrong, for them to either do, or not be doing so, etc? I mean, they are allowed to be naked there, and there are no rules, right? (Schools and/or your Wal-Mart restooms, or lockerooms or change/dressing rooms at your YMCA, or "whatever", etc) So what's stopping them then, etc? And I do mean "any of them" in "any of those places", etc? Whats stopping them, etc? Adults, children, adults with children, or in front of children, etc, what's there exactly to be stopping any of them, etc? I mean, if they are only playing with just there own parts, and are not touching anybody else's, etc, and thats only if you want to draw a line or at least make some rules there maybe anyway, etc? Anyway, what's there exactly to be stopping any of them, etc? I mean, they are all free to do whatever they want to in places that they are allowed to get or be naked with their own body parts, right? Who's anyone else to tell them about the right, or else wrong of it, etc? No one can ever do that to another person, right? Clearly violates their rights, right, etc?

And I could have said more, and scarred all of you even further than that, etc, but hopefully you see the slippery slope now, and why there must be some rules or boundaries made in these areas or all will descend into chaos, etc...

I regret that people are this stupid, and we must tell them to or by the point of threat what is either right, or else is absolutely wrong in these areas, but apparently, we must, and people are actually this stupid, "or else", etc...

I apologize I had to say what I had to say the way I did and make it so graphic, etc, I could have said even more, etc, but sometimes, that's the only thing that stupid people who can't see or predict the obvious, will ever truly understand, etc...

Legal rules and laws of absolute right and wrong are absolutely necessary, etc...

And I hope you can see that very, very clearly now, etc...

People will violate and cross all of them eventually just because they can if you don't ever make them, etc...

Hopefully I don't get into a lot of trouble for this post, but if the point is clearly made, and you maybe don't see me for a little bit, then I would consider it well worth it, etc...

If the point was clearly made or got across very well anyway, etc...

See ya'll later (maybe?) (Or maybe not maybe, etc?)

(Guess we'll have to see)...

God Bless!
 
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ThatRobGuy

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One of the reasons we're not talking about it is because to do so would be similar to suggesting we have different rules in society for ugly people.
That's not a perfect comparison in that we haven't traditionally had separate facilities for "attractive" and "ugly"

But there are some comparisons that can be drawn.

The one I mentioned earlier... 5' 8" people are less likely to make the basketball team than a 6' 8" person. ..but that aside


With regards to this topic, it's not so much about rules, as it is perceptions.

I don't think it instantly makes a person a "bad person" simply because they're very uncomfortable with something that they were raised to be uncomfortable with, and can't change that at the drop of a hat. And the "passable" aspect ties into that. Thus the reason that fewer people would be alarmed by seeing Janet Mock walk into a women's room than seeing the person in this story doing the same.

Now, if someone is lying or exaggerating (like it sounds the girl in this story who complained was doing), that's not justified either.

But I wonder how much of the lying and exaggerating is motivated by the fact that no nuance is being allowed for people who are uncomfortable with it, and any measured and moderated critique they may have is always met with gaslighting and/or a lecture about how they're wrong for feeling the way they feel and how they need to "check their implicit bias"
 
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Neogaia777

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Like it or not, at some point we are going to have to start setting some rules and boundaries, "including telling people what is absolutely right or else is wrong around these things", etc, because if we don't, all will descend into very great perversion and very great chaos if we don't, etc... Allow me to give you a few examples, and allow me to explain, etc... A little foretaste of things to come, etc...

Right now you're worried about guys and gals, and boys and girls (children) having to see each other naked, or having to be getting undressed in front of one another, long enough to have to say, change clothes or something like that, etc, but, what if a guy or gal, or a boy or a girl (children) wants to say, "play with themselves out in the open or openly in those rooms out in the open and openly for others to see with their own parts", etc? Can you tell them it is either, absolutely right, or else absolutely wrong, for them to either do, or not be doing so, etc? I mean, they are allowed to be naked there, and there are no rules, right? (Schools and/or your Wal-Mart restooms, or lockerooms or change/dressing rooms at your YMCA, or "whatever", etc) So what's stopping them then, etc? And I do mean "any of them" in "any of those places", etc? Whats stopping them, etc? Adults, children, adults with children, or in front of children, etc, what's there exactly to be stopping any of them, etc? I mean, if they are only playing with just there own parts, and are not touching anybody else's, etc, and thats only if you want to draw a line or at least make some rules there maybe anyway, etc? Anyway, what's there exactly to be stopping any of them, etc? I mean, they are all free to do whatever they want to in places that they are allowed to get or be naked with their own body parts, right? Who's anyone else to tell them about the right, or else wrong of it, etc? No one can ever do that to another person, right? Clearly violates their rights, right, etc?

And I could have said more, and scarred all of you even further than that, etc, but hopefully you see the slippery slope now, and why there must be some rules or boundaries made in these areas or all will descend into chaos, etc...

I regret that people are this stupid, and we must tell them to or by the point of threat what is either right, or else is absolutely wrong in these areas, but apparently, we must, and people are actually this stupid, "or else", etc...

I apologize I had to say what I had to say the way I did and make it so graphic, etc, I could have said even more, etc, but sometimes, that's the only thing that stupid people who can't see or predict the obvious, will ever truly understand, etc...

Legal rules and laws of absolute right and wrong are absolutely necessary, etc...

And I hope you can see that very, very clearly now, etc...

People will violate and cross all of them eventually just because they can if you don't ever make them, etc...

Hopefully I don't get into a lot of trouble for this post, but if the point is clearly made, and you maybe don't see me for a little bit, then I would consider it well worth it, etc...

If the point was clearly made or got across very well anyway, etc...

See ya'll later (maybe?) (Or maybe not maybe, etc?)

(Guess we'll have to see)...

God Bless!
And I'm sure if society did get to this point, that it would make all of those perverts at the top, very, very happy, etc...

(And maybe just a little bit "too happy", if you catch my drift or meaning here, etc)...

(Epstien didn't kill himself, etc)...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Like it or not, at some point we are going to have to start setting some rules and boundaries, "including telling people what is absolutely right or else is wrong around these things", etc, because if we don't, all will descend into very great perversion and very great chaos if we don't, etc... Allow me to give you a few examples, and allow me to explain, etc... A little foretaste of things to come, etc...

Right now you're worried about guys and gals, and boys and girls (children) having to see each other naked, or having to be getting undressed in front of one another, long enough to have to say, change clothes or something like that, etc, but, what if a guy or gal, or a boy or a girl (children) wants to say, "play with themselves out in the open or openly in those rooms out in the open and openly for others to see with their own parts", etc? Can you tell them it is either, absolutely right, or else absolutely wrong, for them to either do, or not be doing so, etc? I mean, they are allowed to be naked there, and there are no rules, right? (Schools and/or your Wal-Mart restooms, or lockerooms or change/dressing rooms at your YMCA, or "whatever", etc) So what's stopping them then, etc? And I do mean "any of them" in "any of those places", etc? Whats stopping them, etc? Adults, children, adults with children, or in front of children, etc, what's there exactly to be stopping any of them, etc? I mean, if they are only playing with just there own parts, and are not touching anybody else's, etc, and thats only if you want to draw a line or at least make some rules there maybe anyway, etc? Anyway, what's there exactly to be stopping any of them, etc? I mean, they are all free to do whatever they want to in places that they are allowed to get or be naked with their own body parts, right? Who's anyone else to tell them about the right, or else wrong of it, etc? No one can ever do that to another person, right? Clearly violates their rights, right, etc?

And I could have said more, and scarred all of you even further than that, etc, but hopefully you see the slippery slope now, and why there must be some rules or boundaries made in these areas or all will descend into chaos, etc...

I regret that people are this stupid, and we must tell them to or by the point of threat what is either right, or else is absolutely wrong in these areas, but apparently, we must, and people are actually this stupid, "or else", etc...

I apologize I had to say what I had to say the way I did and make it so graphic, etc, I could have said even more, etc, but sometimes, that's the only thing that stupid people who can't see or predict the obvious, will ever truly understand, etc...

Legal rules and laws of absolute right and wrong are absolutely necessary, etc...

And I hope you can see that very, very clearly now, etc...

People will violate and cross all of them eventually just because they can if you don't ever make them, etc...

Hopefully I don't get into a lot of trouble for this post, but if the point is clearly made, and you maybe don't see me for a little bit, then I would consider it well worth it, etc...

If the point was clearly made or got across very well anyway, etc...

See ya'll later (maybe?) (Or maybe not maybe, etc?)

(Guess we'll have to see)...

God Bless!

And I'm sure if society did get to this point, that it would make all of those perverts at the top, very, very happy, etc...

(And maybe just a little bit "too happy", if you catch my drift or meaning here, etc)...

(Epstien didn't kill himself, etc)...

God Bless!
Talk like this might land me in CF jail for a while, so, if it does, don't be too surprised, ok, I'll be back (sometime maybe?), etc, ok...

Price I'm willing to pay for the sacrifices I'm willing to be making, ok...

If I crossed a line, then I crossed a line in order to show all of you all of the lines we will all soon be crossing, ok...

If we all don't start making some rules or laws around it, or start figuring it out now, ok...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Talk like this might land me in CF jail for a while, so, if it does, don't be too surprised, ok, I'll be back (sometime maybe?), etc, ok...

Price I'm willing to pay for the sacrifices I'm willing to be making, ok...

If I crossed a line, then I crossed a line in order to show all of you all of the lines we will all soon be crossing, ok...

If we all don't start making some rules or laws around it, or start figuring it out now, ok...

God Bless!
I've always said that humanities shortsightedness (and stupidity) (in almost every area) is going to be the (eventual) downfall of them all, etc...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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I've always said that humanities shortsightedness (and stupidity) (in almost every area) is going to be the (eventual) downfall of them all, etc...

God Bless!
Society is like a spoiled child who doesn't want any rules around this right now, etc, says it violates their "rights", etc, but hopefully I have just shown you how very, very narrow, and immature, and eventually very, very destructive, etc, "view", etc, that is to have, etc... There has to be some legal rules around basic right and wrong, or else, etc...

People nowadays don't like to be told that though, etc, like I said, just like a "very spoiled child", etc...

Very, very unrealistic and not very "grown-up" view to have at all, etc...

And if it is allowed to continue completely unchecked, etc, will be the downfall of us all, etc...

We must find a way to make them (rules and laws) but still respect the rights and freedoms, (and boundaries), of all, etc...

They can change or evolve or grow over time, but there must always be some, etc...

And the one's we have or make now, need to respect where everyone, and I do mean "everyone", is currently at right now, etc...

Only chaos can ensue if you don't ever have any, etc...

God Bless!
 
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rjs330

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Good question. Why do you keep bringing it up? It's not like it happened in this instance. The headline should read "Attention seeking teen sees imaginary penis: are teens serial liars?"

Way to miss the broader picture about where it is happening. How do you know she is lying. Were you there? She NEVER claimed to see a penis. She claimed to see a man. And she did not want the naked man seeing her naked. Do you believe that girls should be forced to allow boys to see them naked?
 
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Neogaia777

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Society is like a spoiled child who doesn't want any rules around this right now, etc, says it violates their "rights", etc, but hopefully I have just shown you how very, very narrow, and immature, and eventually very, very destructive, etc, "view", etc, that is to have, etc... There has to be some legal rules around basic right and wrong, or else, etc...

People nowadays don't like to be told that though, etc, like I said, just like a "very spoiled child", etc...

Very, very unrealistic and not very "grown-up" view to have at all, etc...

And if it is allowed to continue completely unchecked, etc, will be the downfall of us all, etc...

We must find a way to make them (rules and laws) but still respect the rights and freedoms, (and boundaries), of all, etc...

They can change or evolve or grow over time, but there must always be some, etc...

And the one's we have or make now, need to respect where everyone, and I do mean "everyone", is currently at right now, etc...

Only chaos can ensue if you don't ever have any, etc...

God Bless!
Somebody, somewhere, might say: "Do we really have to spell all of these things out?", to which I will say: "Yes, you/me/we do, or somebody, somewhere, sometime, is going to try and cross them, and cause a great controversy (or sow a lot of chaos) in the process... and that is why we most definitely have to always be spelling all of these things out right the heck now", etc...

And we can't be lazy as a nation/country/people in this area either, or we will wind up paying much more than we should have for it in the long run, so these things need to most definitely be all spelled out now, etc...

That is why we have rule of law in the first place, etc...

People don't like that nowadays, but that's only because they don't like it, and can't see, etc...

God Bless!
 
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SilverBear

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And here's a video showing an interview and her speaking that's not grainy.

In other words, people can definitely tell. This isn't one of the scenarios where "nobody would know had they not been told"
the video is unavailable.

So you are judging her by appearance...and found her unappealing. Does that justify the girls lies? or the way the right is attacking her and disparaging her? Does it justify any number of perverts speculating about what underneath her clothes?
 
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Neogaia777

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If the person in question was anatomically a male, and was getting undressed in a female locker room where other women/girls could clearly see or be exposed to the fact that they were still anatomically male, then that person broke the law in my book, and should be cited for indecent exposure at the very least, etc...

Of course, the problem is that there aren't any clear rules on it right now, because no one seems to want to touch it with a ten foot pole right now, and that is part of the problem right now, etc...

In my opinion there also needs to be a third room (lockeroom) where people (anyone) can go for any reason if they wish or if they are not comfortable with either of the other two rooms (or lockerooms), etc, so that there can be a relatively comfortable place for everyone to go, etc..

God Bless!
 
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