But aren't you evading what your theology really states. You have to go back before they were born in it. You have to go back before they loved it. You have to go to your theology which says God ordained before creation that they WOULD be born into it and love it. You have God wanting them to have loved it and took measures by ordaining that they would.
Instead of pointing out that it was YOUR analogy and far from apt, I should just say, "Why don't you go all the way and make your point?" God ordained that they be 6 feet underground. Don't mess around with halfway statements —I believe that from the foundation of the world, God ordained that absolutely every detail, every motion of every particle, and every puzzlement of every scientist and philosopher, every pain and suffering, come to pass precisely as it does, for his own purposes. Logic demands it and scripture describes it. And God doesn't shrink from declaring it. He doesn't need anyone to excuse him. But that is only part of the story— the more fleeting, vaporous part.
First of all lets make this clear. God wants to give and impart salvation to ALL.
Bare assertion. And rather obviously, by Scripture and by logic, false. Yeah, and without me showing it, bare assertion also. Beyond that, I would like you to show that you know what it means by God "WANTS". This is God, we are talking about. Not one of us humans.
You theology creates a God that doesn't have the character of God revealed in the scriptures
Bare assertion. Can you not find where Scriptures shows an angry God, a jealous God, a vengeful God? Or more to the point, a Holy, Pure God, a just God, a particular God, the Omnipotent God of Aseity, Simplicity, and Immanence. The God who owes nobody anything —not even an explanation. And yet he had such love that he made all this for what is to come, for us, to the praise of his glory, just as Scripture shows. Fit what you believe around that. Don't fit that around your belief.
And as I said as a Non Calvinsit I don't have to answer a question does the sinner deserve to be saved. I've stated God has so chosen to put such a tremendous value on every person on the earth so why should I answer do we deserve that.
Do you have scripture demonstrating that God is not particular whom he uses as materials for his dwelling place? That the members of the flawless Bride of Christ are a haphazard conglomeration of whoever by chance decided right? That he chooses them according to their willingness to cooperate and be shaped, and not by the counsel of his own will before the foundation of the world —before they were even in Adam?
What do we know about the tremendous value of a person? I can guarantee you that we see that wrong. We place the value intrinsically, and we can do no better, but he places it on his use for them and his end for them. And no, I don't know who will be where at the end, except as he gives me confidence in my prayer and affections concerning them.
You paradigm however makes God responsible for having a part in orchestrating that he wanted men to sin and then punish them for it. It is a valid statement to say with your theology men do deserve to have the right to be saved and not to be punished in such an unjust way.
No. I don't say he has a part. He is default fact; he is the only "brute fact". The whole thing is his from start to finish. And we play a part within what he is doing. We are not in the same wrestling ring, tag teaming.
So what about others' beyond yourself? What about those you call not the elect. So you tell us what do they have to be thankful for. That favoritism was shown to others and that they somehow must be punished by some strange concept Calvinists have that it demonstrates the character of God? Youll say such things like to the praise of the glory of his grace or something similar, none of which makes any rational sense.
You sound like my wife did, and to whom I often felt like saying, "Why can't you say, 'It makes no sense
to me'!" But as to your question of what the non-elect have to be thankful for, it is a bogus question. They are not thankful. Why would you ask?
But, if you mean, "In what way does God show them any grace or mercy in the Calvinist view?", take a look at Total Depravity. By the Grace and Mercy of God, he restrains their rush into evil. They are not as depraved as they would have become if he did not restrain them. Also, there is what we refer to as common grace, such as the fact that he makes it to rain upon the just and unjust alike. He gives them life, and helps them live productively. There is much more than that, besides, but they are not grateful. Before you were born again, was not God good to you? So it is with the reprobate. Like with us, God has not treated them as their deeds deserve.
