The plan of creation: Did God create humans to prove a point?

[Lost Witness]

Many believe the "sword of the spirit, word of God" is the bible. I think it's also the Holy Spirit working within us and through us.

kinda agree with this statement myself

 

[YahuahSaves]

God didn't prove a point. The universe exists because it is the will of God that all exists and that all things are summed up in His only-begotten Son.

So God had no point in creating everything as he did? What about his "eternal plan"?

1 Corinthians 15:24-28

24 After that the end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power. 25 For Christ must reign until he humbles all his enemies beneath his feet. 26 And the last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.”[a] (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.) 28 Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

 

[YahuahSaves]

What do you feel is the relationship between the indwelling Holy Spirit and Godly type Love in us?

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the love that we cannot produce apart from God. God's love pours into us through the Holy Spirit and (if we allow it by putting our fleshly mind aside) pours out of us toward others. Sacrificing our (selves) for others the way Jesus did. But I don't believe our flesh mind is able to truly do that apart from the Holy Spirit and our willingness to obey.

John 15:12

12 This is my commandment: Love each other in the same way I have loved you.

 

[YahuahSaves]

The glory of the Son being the Father's main purpose in creation.

Agree^

God showing forth his glory (e.g., in his wisdom) is not proving a point, it is manifesting his glory.

But isn't "manifesting" his glory (ancient-hebrew concrete meaning "battle armaments"), proving a point in and of itself? Making his glory known through the ages, and in particular, at the cross and resurrection, defeating death?

manifest
adjective
Clearly apparent to the sight or understanding; obvious. synonym: apparent.

 

[YahuahSaves]

God's everlasting love and giving Himself away.

I would agree with your sentiments for the most part, but it's more a giving of himself. God's a "sharer". Haven't you heard the saying "sharing is caring"? That's God's love I believe.

 

[Saint Steven]

You don't think the serpent is satan?

What does the text say? (wild animal) Possessed by The Satan most likely.

Genesis 3:1 NIV
Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made.

 

[Saint Steven]

Many believe the "sword of the spirit, word of God" is the bible. I think it's also the Holy Spirit working within us and through us.

I agree with that.
In most cases a book has replaced the operation in spiritual gifting and manifestations.
Unfortunately, the book is used to battle other believers instead of the enemy.

Suddenly, I feel convicted. I've been rather rough on you. I apologize. Please forgive me.

 

[YahuahSaves]

What does the text say? (wild animal) Possessed by The Satan most likely.

Never heard that take on it^
So you think the serpent was like a lizard or something that got possessed by satan? I guess that would explain why it could talk lol

 

[Saint Steven]

Never heard that take on it^
So you think the serpent was like a lizard or something that got possessed by satan? I guess that would explain why it could talk lol

Yes. The consequences put the serpent on its belly. Seems like leg removal to me.
The talking aspect is very curious. Unless all the animals were talking,
Eve's first comment to the serpent should have been,
"Oh, so you're talking now?" ???

 

[sparow]

Click the link in post #30 and have a read.

I like that verse,yet I see error in it. Paul should have said, bearing in mind our situation may be different to theirs 2000 years ago, "For our wrestling is not ONLY against....."; it is flesh and blood that constitutes the bog hole wherein the wrestle occurs and it is the bog of flesh and blood that consumes all the energy expended in the wrestle.

Where translators render "devil" in verse 11, the Greek means "false accuser"; they should have said false accuser instead of infusing Pagan concept into scripture.

 

[Clare73]

Agree^

But isn't "manifesting" his glory (ancient-hebrew concrete meaning "battle armaments"), proving a point in and of itself? Making his glory known through the ages, and in particular, at the cross and resurrection, defeating death?
manifest
adjective
Clearly apparent to the sight or understanding; obvious. synonym: apparent.

So what point/fact do you think he is proving?

 

[sparow]

When you say "Word of God" are you referring to an English translation of the Bible?
If so, how did Jesus confirm it? (the KJV dates to 1611)

Jesus is "the Word of God" that became flesh.

On this occasion I was referring to the entity that became flesh; because you asked the question, I don't think this will help.

There are a couple of points; I would not define God, knowing in advance that any attempt would be erroneous and a violation of the commandment regarding false images. What I believe is Father means authority and Son means subordinate; the OT is the authority, the NT is the work done; the OT is the covenant and all things established, the NT is the fruition of the covenant and at this time the half confirmation of the covenant with half still to go.

 

[Saint Steven]

Or an angel of light, appearing that is as if an angel of light, appeared and talked with her.

Certainly a spiritual force controlling/influencing the serpent.

 

[Saint Steven]

The devil if doing so,
but the translation serpent, snake, might be 'wrong' and was never have been an animal -
the devil is called a serpent by some, a snake by others, but not an animal.
The devil appears as if an angel of light,
which is something obviously that can and does talk, and deceive.

Here's the text. Make of it what you will.
Certainly MORE going on than just a crafty wild animal.
Makes me wonder if God made any "tame" animals? - LOL

Genesis 3:1 NIV
Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

 

[Saint Steven]

You should already know Scripture well enough, given all your posts and history and so on,
to know that
we are not supposed to nor allowed to make of it what you will.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

There is no consensus on what the Bible means.
If there was, we wouldn't need a forum to discuss it.
Even Jesus understood this.

Luke 10:26 NIV
“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

 

[Saint Steven]

Jesus said that Scripture is not open to private interpretation. Private interpretation has led to many many false ideas, "claiming" to be from Scripture, but thinking after the way of man, and not of God.

Is that yet another claim you can't substantiate?

Let me help you.
You were probably referring to this scripture below.
Correct me if I am wrong. (and provide the correct scripture)

This is in reference to the OT Prophets.
The prophetic messages they received were not of their own private interpretation.
They spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 1:20-21 AKJV
knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God
spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[YahuahSaves]

"For our wrestling is not ONLY against....."; it is flesh and blood

The way I see the verse personally, is to remind us that no matter what flesh-and-blood person comes against us - we are essentially in a fight with the "powers that be". Even if the spiritual enemy uses a person individually, we are still in a fight with that enemy and not the person. I think this is why Jesus speaks of forgiveness so often.

Where translators render "devil" in verse 11, the Greek means "false accuser"; they should have said false accuser instead of infusing Pagan concept into scripture.

Well the hebrew only gives the title "satan" (adversary) to anything that's in opposition to God. And "Ha-Satan" (the adversary) to "the devil". Greek mythology was used in the NT quite often, even by the apostles, but I believe because of the times they were in, they often spoke symbolically to convey a message.

 

[Saint Steven]

The way I see the verse personally, is to remind us that no matter what flesh-and-blood person comes against us - we are essentially in a fight with the "powers that be". Even if the spiritual enemy uses a person individually, we are still in a fight with that enemy and not the person. I think this is why Jesus speaks of forgiveness so often.

Spot on.
The enemy uses well-meaning believers to do his biding.
The believer being used thinks they are doing God's will. Spiritual discernment is required at all times.
And as you indicated, we need to battle the enemy, not the unwitting believer used by the enemy.

 

[YahuahSaves]

So what point/fact do you think he is proving?

Well, go back to the OP where I quote what the original hebrew meaning of "glory".

What is God's "glory"?

"In Exodus 16:7 we read "and in the morning you shall see the glory of the LORD" (RSV). What is the "glory" of YHWH? First we must recognize that the "glory" is something that will be seen. Secondly, the word "glory" is an abstract word. If we look at how this word is paralleled with other words in poetical passages of the Bible, we can discover the original concrete meaning of this word. In Psalm 3:3 the kavod of Elohiym (God) is paralleled with his "shield" and in Job 29:20, Job's kavod is paralleled with his "bow." In Psalm 24:8 we read "who is this king of the kavod, YHWH is strong and mighty, YHWH is mighty in battle." The original concrete meaning of kavod is battle armaments. The meaning "armament" fits with the literal meaning of the root of kavod, which is "heavy," and armaments are the heavy weapons and defenses of battle. In the Exodus 16:7, Israel will "see" the "armament" of YHWH, the one who has done battle for them with the Egyptians." SOURCE

What do we see as the general theme throughout scripture? What are God's overwhelming attributes?

"In the Exodus 16:7, Israel will "see" the "armament" of YHWH, the one who has done battle for them with the Egyptians."

 

[YahuahSaves]

The devil if doing so,
but the translation serpent, snake, might be 'wrong' and was never have been an animal -
the devil is called a serpent by some, a snake by others, but not an animal.
The devil appears as if an angel of light,
which is something obviously that can and does talk, and deceive.

The devil is also called the "dragon" in revelation. If the serpent of the garden was literal, it wouldn't re-grow legs (and also wings) by the end times. I think the imagery of a reptile was used because they're cold-blooded animals.