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Is Astrology a science?

Is Astrology a science?

  • Astrology is a science.

  • Astrology is not a science.


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Kylie

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Science works?

No, science doesn't work.

When it comes to miracles, that is.

So whether I'm ignorant as a hay rake when it comes to science; or whether I'm omniscient when it comes to science; science doesn't apply.
The fact that you are able to reply to me on a device that operates according to scientific principles is proof you are wrong.

Science works just fine. You deciding it doesn't apply in certain situations doesn't mean you are right, it just shows that you don't have any idea how science works.
 
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Astrid

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The fact that you are able to reply to me on a device that operates according to scientific principles is proof you are wrong.

Science works just fine. You deciding it doesn't apply in certain situations doesn't mean you are right, it just shows that you don't have any idea how science works.
Science? No idea about science
goes with yec territory.
 
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Tuur

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What do you think there is in geology that is in
doubt and "open to misinterpretation"?
For doubt, there's the aforementioned Carolina Bays. These are depressions in the Eastern US that tend to become swampy and seem to follow a pattern, but there doesn't seem to be a cause that's clearly understood. For misinterpretation, anything. To use an example from the state of Georgia, about midway in the state you can find boulders sitting in fields. "Aha!" some geologists said. "That shows there were glaciers there at one time, and the marks on these boulders prove it." Except it turned out the marks were due to logging chains being attached to them, and the glacier theory was dropped. That the boulders are there is clear for all to see. How they got there is the point of interpretation.

This actually is a good point to get back to the original post. Constellations can serve as a handy calendar in the sky, and people observed that the Nile flooded at the certain time of year, or that when a certain constellation rose that killing frosts were past. "Aha!" said the ancients. "The stars must influence these events." Add in worship of the stars and planets, and you have astrology. But coincidence isn't causation, and the coincidence of a constellation rising at planting time was simply that: a coincidence. Yet the stars are there for all to see, and ideal planting times as well. Astrology was the interpretation. Just it happened to be wrong.

This also leads us to the answer to the question posed in the original post. Science is a method of inquiry, and can be summed up in two words: "Prove it." Other than opposing in on religious grounds, astrology was unchallenged as a hypothesis until the advent of the scientific method. Science thrives on the "That's interesting" moments when hypothesis or theory doesn't match observation, which is why science can and does change.

Since science can and does change, what was once accepted interpretation of what we see around us can change as well. Sometimes it's a tweak. Sometimes it's a completely new way of interpreting things.
 
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SelfSim

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Science works?

No, science doesn't work.

When it comes to miracles, that is.

So whether I'm ignorant as a hay rake when it comes to science; or whether I'm omniscient when it comes to science; science doesn't apply.
Ok .. so your belief in the existence of miracles, is to keep alive your faith in scriptures.

Your attempts at dismissing science's ability to 'work', (or achieve practical usefulness .. or, your: 'Can take a hike'), on the basis of your beliefs and faith, is non sequitir.

That you keep asserting this, as having any real consequences, is just ignorance.
 
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Tuur

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Let's make the assumption that the flood covers
the land, everything goes underwater.

If one wants to go lalaland with "hydroplate theory"
and that the earth was all tropical lowland 4000
years ago, it's beyond any sane discussion.

So I will assume you are sane and understand numbers,
and continue.

The average thickness of antarctic ice is 2,160
meters. So let's just use that number.

Here comes the flood, and now the ice is overlooked
by water. Ice floats.

Put an ice cube in a glass. Add water. It floats.

Is glacial ice " stuck down" like ice in a sidewalk?

Let's say it is.

Density of water is 1g / cc at 4 degrees C
At -40 it's .96, at 100, it's also ,96


Ice is O.917 g / cc, though it becomes slightly denser
if it's very cold. 0.934g /cc at -180 C.

Let's have the water at 4 C. I g / cc and the ice
is 0.917 g/ cc.

In very round numbers, ice is 8% less dense than
water. Who could guess the salinity of the "flood"
so let's disregard the greater buoyancy of seawater.

What would be the buoyancy of 1000 kilos of ice?
Shouldn't it be able to hold 80 kilos?

Walrus climb up on ice flows without sinking them.

A square meter of ice 2000 meters tall is what,
2000 cubic meters. A cubic meter is 1000 kg
A cubic meter of ice is 917 kg.
The buoyancy- it's lifting power- is 83 kg per cubic meter. 2000 meter thick ice would have a buoyancy
of lets see...186,000 kg per square meter.

You see how IF water flooded over a glacier, it's gonna float?

For fun calculate how high out of the water 2000
meters of ice would float.
All this is well written, but what's been in the back of my mind came to the forefront: I've seen water on top of ice. The obvious solution to this is that the ice was attached to something that didn't allow it to rise. What seems like a frivolous example is when water from dripping outside faucets at school froze to the asphalt and continued to flow on top (and we boys would get into trouble for sliding across it). The water couldn't go under the ice, and so it flowed across the top. The result was that the ice didn't float on the water, which is would have had the water been able to get under it.

I'm less clear on memories of water on top of ice at places like streams. Again, it has to be because the ice was attached to something, but I can't recall what that something was. Maybe nothing more than the banks of the stream. But it was enough that the water went across the top instead of the ice popping up to the surface.

That's why I'm thinking that it's not a given. Ice is less dense than water. Always has been; always will be. Ice floats on water. But sometimes ice can't float, though it would otherwise.
 
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dlamberth

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You keep telling me what the earth told you.

But I get the impression, since the earth DIDN'T TELL YOU about the Flood, you think it didn't happen.

Perhaps your earth doesn't want to tell you?

Maybe she's keeping it a secret?

I don't care how much you love her, if she's keeping information from you (for whatever reason), that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
"If" it actually happened, it would be physically impossible for the Earth to keep a flood that covered the earth a secret.
 
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Astrid

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All this is well written, but what's been in the back of my mind came to the forefront: I've seen water on top of ice. The obvious solution to this is that the ice was attached to something that didn't allow it to rise. What seems like a frivolous example is when water from dripping outside faucets at school froze to the asphalt and continued to flow on top (and we boys would get into trouble for sliding across it). The water couldn't go under the ice, and so it flowed across the top. The result was that the ice didn't float on the water, which is would have had the water been able to get under it.

I'm less clear on memories of water on top of ice at places like streams. Again, it has to be because the ice was attached to something, but I can't recall what that something was. Maybe nothing more than the banks of the stream. But it was enough that the water went across the top instead of the ice popping up to the surface.

That's why I'm thinking that it's not a given. Ice is less dense than water. Always has been; always will be. Ice floats on water. But sometimes ice can't float, though it would otherwise.
The ice you described was adhering to a surface to
whuch it was frozen.
But more to the point it didn't have enough
volume to have the buoyancy to overcome
what held it down. A child can hold down an ice cube
but not an iceberg.

Glue or freeze Ihe bottom of a 55 gal drum
to the floor of a drydock, do the same with the
USS Missouri.

Flood the drydock. The water can't seep under the ice.
But
What do you think will happen?

Ice floats.
You cannot be seriously questioning that Iess dense than
water, and you KNOW icebergs float.

I'm puzzled how it's not obvious that if submerged
a glacier would float.
 
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Diamond72

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No, science doesn't work.

When it comes to miracles, that is.
Science has a placebo effect. They have the power of suggestion and the power of positive thinking. Miracles are based on what God is able to do for us. To restore us to His plan and purpose. When the doctors have done all they can do for you. That is the time to pray and go beyond what man can do apart from God.
 
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AV1611VET

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Your belief that science is irrelevant does not actually make it irrelevant.

That's true.

In the above case, it was Estrid that said science was irrelevant.

And I agreed with her.
 
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AV1611VET

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"If" it actually happened, it would be physically impossible for the Earth to keep a flood that covered the earth a secret.

Why?

You gonna beat it out of her?
 
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Diamond72

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"If" it actually happened, it would be physically impossible for the Earth to keep a flood that covered the earth a secret.
There is no secret. Noah's flood was local from our perspective. But for Noah, it was his world that was flooded. Noah's flood is an archetype of the worldwide flood that took place at the time Pangea was destroyed. Esp the part about how the widows of Heaven were open. There was a big change in the atmosphere at the time so a lot of the water above fell to the earth.

Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month, all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

Notice 7:22 "All in whose nostrils was the breath of life," We see this in Genesis 2:7 "the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul."

The word here for breath: "neshama" means spirit or soul. We first see this word in Genesis chapter two as it pertains to Adam and Eve and the garden of Eden. They call this the neolithic revolution when man transitioned from a food gathering to a food producer. Some call this the beginning of civilization.

Neshama

 
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Diamond72

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Assuming that the Genesis Flood happened, why did it not wash away the evidence of the Ice Age Floods of the Northwest?
Noah's flood happened when the Strait of Hormuz gave way and the Persian gulf was formed. Eden is still underwater today.
 
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Diamond72

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Are these even real peoples? Never heard of them outside the Torah.
Yes they are real people with real DNA. Not just Noah but all the animals on the Ark have DNA. Science has put a lot of work into the study of how civilization spread from the Middle East to Europe. All the animals and all the food that we read about in our Bible that Noah saved on the Ark. Sheep, Goats, Olives, Barley, and so on.
 
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Diamond72

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Science works just fine.
You missed a keyword: Miracles. We have to go beyond what Science can do. Remember the women in the Bible that spent all her money and never found a cure? Until she found Jesus and He healed her and did not charge her. If Science had the cure and all the answers, we would have no need for Jesus and the Bible.
 
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AV1611VET

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Noah's flood happened when the Strait of Hormuz gave way and the Persian gulf was formed. Eden is still underwater today.

Why was Noah on the Ark for a year then?
 
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Hans Blaster

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Yes they are real people with real DNA.

The Shemites are real? Where did/do they live?

Not just Noah but all the animals on the Ark have DNA.

O wow, didn't know that! Animals have DNA! Shocking!

Science has put a lot of work into the study of how civilization spread from the Middle East to Europe. All the animals and all the food that we read about in our Bible that Noah saved on the Ark. Sheep, Goats, Olives, Barley, and so on.
And that's not quite what science has found.

What about tomatoes, potatoes, maize ("corn")? Do those spread out from the middle east to Europe? (Let me help you. They don't. They are from the Americas and traveled to Europe after Columbus.)
 
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Diamond72

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Why was Noah on the Ark for a year then?
I do not know the exact details. It rained for 40 days and nights. The water continued to rise for 150 days until the Mountains or some say hill tops were covered. Then it was another 150 days before the top of Mount Ararat was uncovered. So that adds up to 340 days. Still, Noah was in the ark for another 30 days for a total of 370. So it was over a year before Noah was able to find dry ground.

The plants and animals in Eden were cultivated and domesticated. I have done a little bit of study on the Botney of the plants in the middle east in Eden. They were no longer wild. They needed man to plant and cultivate them. Farming spread from the middle east to Europe and the rest of the world from there. The Bible talks about the breath of life. The key word here in Genesis 7:22 is neshamah נְשָׁמָה. Next to the word "beginning" Neshamah may be the most important word in the Bible. We first see this word in Genesis 2:7 "Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."

Genesis chapter one talks about beginnings and Genesis chapter two talks about Neshamah or the breath of life. We also see the use of the word field before Adam and Eve. We know a field is cultivated land. לַֽעֲבֹ֖ד

Genesis 2:5 Now no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth, nor had any plant of the field sprouted; for the LORD God had not yet sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground.

All those plants and animals would have perished without Noah taking care of them. They were no longer wild so they could take care of themselves. From my experience the weeds are still wild and they keep trying to take over.
 
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