Can people who disagree on abortion stop attacking each other?

[NxNW]

An identical twin is simply a natural clone of the fertilized egg.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[NxNW]

The Hebrew does not use the word womb it uses vasseter, meaning: a covering, hiding place, secrecy.

Sounds to me like you're claiming that English translations can't be trusted.

 

[NxNW]

Twinning

"Before about 14 days post-conception, some embryos split into two embryos (identical twins). Therefore, some think, embryos before this point aren't yet individual, unitary human beings.

But the fact than one organism can give rise to two doesn't mean it isn't an individual organism. A flatworm, as Patrick Lee observes, can be cut to produce two separate flatworms, and that doesn't mean a flatworm isn't a flatworm. The evidence of embryology shows that human embryos, likewise, are unitary and individual organisms even if twinning later occurs."

And now that we've established that life begins after conception, it's just a matter of arguing about how long after.

 

[NxNW]

When God says it starts. Which will be different for different people.

In other words, morality is subjective instead of consistent.

 

[NxNW]

It does tell us that life doesn’t necessarily start at conception. The second embryo does not exist at conception.

Which is exactly the point I was trying to make.

 

[NxNW]

Thus, while a brain-dead patient is a corpse in the process of decay, an embryo is a living and growing individual."

Embryos can be frozen for years and then implanted. Human beings cannot survive being frozen for years.

 

[GodLovesCats]

@ChristianForCats

We have a definitive no to the question if this conversation can go on without attacks or other things you don’t want and no sign of that changing, so, what’s the point of the thread continuing?

It was a nice try

Hopefully someday America will have all the solutions in place to make most elective abortions unnecessary, which sadly is not true now.

 

[NxNW]

Both an embryo and a fetus are stages of development of a human being.

This is false, because an embryo is not a human being. An acorn is not an oak tree.

You didn't evolve from an embryo, you once were an embryo.

I never claimed to have evolved from an embryo.

If you don't think that a human life is valuable that is up to you, but don't be surprised that other people think nobody should willfully end the life of an innocent human being without their consent.

I never said human life is not valuable. I merely clarified the definition of human being.

However, if you believe that the earliest stages of pregnancy are actual human beings, then you'd be making constant donations into research to prevent miscarriages. How much money did you donate to such research in 2022? How much money did your church donate? How many hours of your time did you and your congregation volunteer to prevent what you believe to be a massive loss of life?

 

[NxNW]

Abortions Murder,
it's HOW GOD views it and he's the Ultimate Authority.
Regardless as to what you choose to be deceived into believing,
it doesn't change the fact that abortions murder.
toss all the secular lies at me you want, you fool only yourself.
in the end.
If GOD declares it to be so than it is,
Abortion is Murder and Murder is SIN.

Saying something doesn't make it true.

 

[NxNW]

Let's start with getting both willing parties in the encounter, who were unwilling to use contraception to take responsibility for their choices.

Even when they do, you still have a million unwanted pregancies in the US every year.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

This is false, because an embryo is not a human being. An acorn is not an oak tree.

I understand that you cannot accept the scientific definition of a "human being" because it doesn't fit your opinion, but it's certainly not a dolphin in the woman's womb. It's a human.
If "fully developed" is your requirement for being a human being, then neither a baby nor a teenager are human beings. You are moving on thin ice there.

As the United States National Center for Biotechnology Information points out:

"Embryos are whole human beings, at the early stage of their maturation. The term 'embryo', similar to the terms 'infant' and 'adolescent', refers to a determinate and enduring organism at a particular stage of development."

Embryonic human persons. Talking Point on morality and human embryo research - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Belk]

View attachment 325732
I understand that you cannot accept the scientific definition of a "human being" because it doesn't fit your opinion, but it's certainly not a dolphin in the woman's womb. It's a human.
If "fully developed" is your requirement for being a human being, then neither a baby nor a teenager are human beings. You are moving on thin ice there.

As the United States National Center for Biotechnology Information points out:

"Embryos are whole human beings, at the early stage of their maturation. The term 'embryo', similar to the terms 'infant' and 'adolescent', refers to a determinate and enduring organism at a particular stage of development."

Embryonic human persons. Talking Point on morality and human embryo research - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

What is a "scientific definition" and how does it differ from other types of definitions?

 

[YahuahSaves]

And now that we've established that life begins after conception, it's just a matter of arguing about how long after.

"It's true that life in general is continuous, but the life of an individual human being is not continuous. It has a beginning and an end. The beginning is called conception. "Although life is a continuous process," explains the textbook Human Embryology & Teratology, "fertilization … is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is formed."

From: The unborn is a human being: What science tells us about unborn children

 

[YahuahSaves]

Embryos can be frozen for years and then implanted. Human beings cannot survive being frozen for years.

That still doesn't discount the fact an embryo is a life defined as a human being with individual DNA.

IVF has only been around 40 years, so that's relatively new in terms of medical advancement. You don't know that in another 100 years whether or not fully-grown human beings will be able to be frozen. But it's still irrelevant to the argument.

 

[YahuahSaves]

This is false, because an embryo is not a human being. An acorn is not an oak tree.

Wrong.

These facts about the unborn are established by the science of embryology and developmental biology. They are confirmed by embryology texts, scientific journals, and other relevant authorities.

"Four characteristics of the unborn human (the zygote, embryo, or fetus) are important:

Distinct. The unborn has a DNA and body distinct from her mother and father. She develops her own arms, legs, brain, nervous system, heart, and so forth.

Living. The unborn meets the biological criteria for life. She grows by reproducing cells. She turns nutrients into energy through metabolism. And she can respond to stimuli.

Human. The unborn has a human genetic signature. She is also the offspring of human parents, and humans can only beget other humans.

Organism. The unborn is an organism (rather than a mere organ or tissue)—an individual whose parts work together for the good of the whole. Guided by a complete genetic code (46 chromosomes), she needs only the proper environment and nutrition to develop herself through the different stages of life as a member of the species."

From: The unborn is a human being: What science tells us about unborn children

 

[YahuahSaves]

Even when they do, you still have a million unwanted pregancies in the US every year.

"Even when they do" ... lol yeah right. There wouldn't be "a million unwanted pregnancies" if most people actually chose to use contraception.

 

[coffee4u]

In other words, morality is subjective instead of consistent.

God is not going to treat someone with severe cognitive issues or a new born baby the same as an adult male of sound mind. That would neither be fair or just.
James 1:15 “After desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.”
A new born or someone with the mind of a 1 year old can no more plot and conceive sin then they can play tennis.

Fair and just treatment is never equal treatment. It fits the crime, the person, the situation. Or do you think the courts should give the same punishment for speeding tickets as they do murder? The very notion of fair justice comes from God.
Psalm 9:8 And He will judge the world in righteousness; He will execute judgment for the peoples fairly.

 

[coffee4u]

Sounds to me like you're claiming that English translations can't be trusted.

English is a clunky language and any good Bible scholar double checks things by looking to the Hebrew or Greek to get a deeper shade of meaning.
Womb is good enoug for most people, it gets the point across to anyone not trying to split hairs.

 

[coffee4u]

You didn't answer the question.

What was the question?

 

[coffee4u]

If you're claiming both twins exist within a single fertlized egg, that's a biological impossibility.

I wasn't talking about twins, just the normal single zygote.