German army without ammunition!

[Red Gold]

By whom?

Good question!

We have a saying now: "Germany is a country surrounded by friends!"
This has not always been the case.

 

[Torah Keeper]

There was this thing called World War 2. Russia and Germany were at war. And Germany lost.

 

[Don't Panic]

There was this thing called World War 2. Russia and Germany were at war. And Germany lost.

And?

 

[Desk trauma]

And?

Clearly the Russians are only pretending to be inept with their actions in Ukraine and they are about to march inexorably west to Berlin once more or something because reasons.

 

[lismore]

Liz Truss ordered the bombing of the pipeline.

At last someone has something good to say about her.

 

[Torah Keeper]

Clearly the Russians are only pretending to be inept with their actions in Ukraine and they are about to march inexorably west to Berlin once more or something because reasons.

I remember when the Ukraine war started, the media overwhelmingly tried to convince everyone that Russia was losing badly. Now Russia owns 4 more territories. Russia won the Ukraine war. Russia invaded Ukraine because they can. Russia won the Ukraine war because they can. Russia is threatening nuclear war because they can. Pretending there is no threat of war is not helping.

The truth is that Russia is far more powerful than the media lets on. This is why other nations are afraid of putting soldiers on the ground in Ukraine, or of direct attacks on Russian soil. Russia is not joking. All NATO nations combined, excluding USA, are collectively weaker than Russia. This means, if NATO(minus USA) and Russia go to war, I fully expect Russia would win. Only USA is powerful enough to beat Russia. But if China sides with Russia....

 

[Desk trauma]

I remember when the Ukraine war started, the media overwhelmingly tried to convince everyone that Russia was losing badly. Now Russia owns 4 more territories. Russia won the Ukraine war. Russia invaded Ukraine because they can. Russia won the Ukraine war because they can. Russia is threatening nuclear war because they can. Pretending there is no threat of war is not helping.

They won the war that's still on going?

 

[Torah Keeper]

They won the war that's still on going?

Yes. They previously won Crimea also. You can keep denying reality but it doesn't help.

 

[Desk trauma]

Yes. They previously won Crimea also. You can keep denying reality but it doesn't help.

Saying that they have not won a war they are still fighting is denial? Ok....

 

[rjs330]

Why is Germany depending so much on other NATO countries for their own defense. What if they all thought that way? What if they all had only two days of ammo? They wouldn't be defending anyone. This is just patently stupid.

 

[Ophiolite]

Why is Germany depending so much on other NATO countries for their own defense. What if they all thought that way? What if they all had only two days of ammo? They wouldn't be defending anyone. This is just patently stupid.

Agreed, but what evidence do we have that other NATO countries are in a significantly better position with regard to ammo?

On the plus side, the reductions in the size of the British army over the last decade does mean there should be more ammo/capita than before.

 

[Gene2memE]

It's a click bait headline, sensationalising a real problem (a shortage of some specific ammunition types) and applying it generally to the Bundeswehr. Someone in the German opposition party took stats on the highest daily ammunition use rates in Ukraine, looked at where ammo stocks were lowest, divided that by the number of available guns and declared "all ammo gone in two days".

But, that's not how it works. There's still a grab-bag of ammunition available, although still probably well under 30 days worth of stuff given the ammunition consumption rates exhibited in Ukraine, as well as the amount of stuff supplied to Kiev.

The primary shortage is in heavy artillery ammunition, particularly 155mm guided shells and some types of fuses (which are complicated and have long lead times). There are other shortages - including some small arms ammunition (5.56 and 7.62 NATO) because the Germans are transitioning over to lead-free primers and have supplied ~22 million rounds to Ukraine - but they're being addressed a little quicker.

There's also an issue with production of some explosives, particularly insensitive munitions (C4/Semtex style stuff), for use in some shoulder launched rockets (Panzerfaust 3, I think) and maybe grenades as well.

This is sort of a snap back from the mid to late 2000, when Germany was worried it had stockpiles that were too large for the reduced size of the Bundeswehr (and couldn't be properly maintained as a result, and so were dangerous). So, they wound up drawing down a whole lot of ammo in the 2010s, or selling much of it off as surplus.

The end result is that several of their main ammunition contractors downsized or moved into the civil market (mostly supply small arms ammunition for the US market).

In the long term, Germany probably needs to spend north of EUR10 billion to fully rectify shortages. From what I understand, an extra EUR1.2 billion emergency allotment was made in July for some ammunition types.

 

[Homeowner]

Liz Truss ordered the bombing of the pipeline. That is an act of war on Russia. Biden supplied Ukraine with missiles, which they used to hit Russian targets on Russian soil. That is an act of war on Russia. It's like saying NATO isn't at war but yet they are.

So what is your proof Liz Truss ordered bombing of the pipeline ? What was the motive of bombing inactive pipeline that was not going to get opened while the war was going on ? Why not bomb some pipeline in Asia Russia is actually using to get some revenue ?

Also if NATO is according to you at war why is Russia not shooting down AWACS reporting on Russian movements in real time to Ukrainians, or shoot US satellites from the sky, or hit supply lines and repair bases in Poland delivering aid to Ukraine ?

Almost like Russia does not think that NATO is at war and for some reason they are apparently not that keen to change that situation.

 

[Red Gold]

There was this thing called World War 2. Russia and Germany were at war. And Germany lost.

I am not sure what you mean by this.
Were there only Russia (the Soviet Union, really) and Germany?

 

[mindlight]

I am not sure what you mean by this.
Were there only Russia (the Soviet Union, really) and Germany?

Don't let him bait you by dredging up war memories and bitterness Germany has moved on and it's time the rest of the world caught up with that. The key interest of Germany right now is to keep America committed to the NATO alliance while it rebuilds its own military capabilities with a view to defending the weak against the strong in Europe rather than global domination. The alliance between the USA and Europe is the most important thing now and moving forward, as this is the only thing stopping China from economically dominating the world. German politicians, mainly in the SPD and Greens have been praising Russia, deriding the USA, and running down our defenses for 30 years but mocking the people who defend us was always going to be a loser's strategy.

 

[Red Gold]

It's a click bait headline

You are right there - it is a bit click-baiting.
But aren't we all hoping for answers?

And the info in this "click-baiting headline" is only too true, unfortunately.

Btw: Have you heard the news about those Puma Panzers = Puma tanks?

 

[Red Gold]

Don't let him bait you by dredging up war memories and bitterness Germany has moved on and it's time the rest of the world caught up with that. The key interest of Germany right now is to keep America committed to the NATO alliance while it rebuilds its own military capabilities with a view to defending the weak against the strong in Europe rather than global domination.

True!

Btw: Your signature says: "Ein Engländer in Deutschland".
Is that you - an Englishman in Germany?

Once I have been a German in England and Scotland.

 

[mindlight]

True!

Btw: Your signature says: "Ein Engländer in Deutschland".
Is that you - an Englishman in Germany?

Once I have been a German in England and Scotland.

I am a dual national. More British than German but the longer I live here...

 

[mindlight]

You are right there - it is a bit click-baiting.
But aren't we all hoping for answers?

And the info in this "click-baiting headline" is only too true, unfortunately.

Btw: Have you heard the news about those Puma Panzers = Puma tanks?

That was another prewar strategic mistake. A swiss company was making all the ammo and because of strict neutrality laws, could deliver no ammo in a war situation like the present one. But now I understand Rheinmetall is going to build the ammo plant inside Germany and the Bundestag has approved all of this. Things are starting to happen but there are so many of these strategic errors I have to question the competency of German governance on military and energy policy for much of the last 8 years especially. The thing is that the war in Ukraine could well be over by the time the German military is back up to scratch. This makes the anti-Americanism of many parts of the current government over the last decade all the more ludicrous as they were biting the hand that was going to save them in the current situation.

 

[Red Gold]

The thing is that the war in Ukraine could well be over by the time the German military is back up to scratch

Possibly.