German army without ammunition!

[Gene2memE]

Btw: Have you heard the news about those Puma Panzers = Puma tanks?

Puma is an IFV, not a tank.

Not reading much defense news at the moment, as I'm off work. I'm assuming it's probably more complaints related to the reliability issues with the sensors or transmission ?

 

[Red Gold]

Puma is an IFV, not a tank.

What on earth is an IFV?
In German those Pumas are called Panzer.
Panzer Puma - sounds better somehow than IFV.

 

[Nithavela]

What on earth is an IFV?
In German those Pumas are called Panzer.
Panzer Puma - sounds better somehow than IFV.

Infantry Fighting Vehicle.

They are called Schützenpanzer, not Panzer. Schützenpanzer are armored vehicles outfitted for transporting infantry into battle and supporting them there.

Or in this case, armored boxes standing around in a field because they break after a few days of exercise.

 

[Desk trauma]

Has Luxembourg invaded yet?

 

[Nithavela]

Has Luxembourg invaded yet?

Maybe. Not sure how we'd notice.

 

[Gene2memE]

What on earth is an IFV?
In German those Pumas are called Panzer.
Panzer Puma - sounds better somehow than IFV.

A vehicle designed to transport troops to the frontlines and then provide fire support for their operations. Usually between 15 and 40 tonnes, equipped with a small to medium calibre cannon in a small turret, and armoured to withstand HMG or light cannon fire. Often equipped with an ATGM as well. Sometimes tracked, sometimes wheeled.


Distinct from a tank, which is designed to engage battlefield targets, armed with a high calibre cannon mounted in a full turret, exclusively tracked and typically weighing 40 to 70+ tonnes.

Seems the Puma's problems are concentrated on the turret - which is an unusual double oscillating design - and some of the electrical wiring. The second may be related to the integrated battlespace system upgrade these particular Pumas underwent in 2017-2019.

 

[Desk trauma]

Maybe. Not sure how we'd notice.

Your police arresting their army would make the news I suppose.

 

[Red Gold]

In German the Puma is a "Schützenpanzer".

 

[Red Gold]

Germany will not purchase any more Puma infantry tanks until they have proven themselves to be reliable, Defence Minister Christine Lambrecht said on Monday after several of the vehicles were put out of service during a recent military drill.

Germany pauses purchases of Puma tanks after operational problems

Germany will not purchase any more Puma infantry tanks until they have proven themselves to be reliable, Defence Minister Christine Lambrecht said on Monday after several of the vehicles were put out of service during a recent military drill.

www.reuters.com

Here the Puma is called an infantry tank

 

[Arcangl86]

Germany pauses purchases of Puma tanks after operational problems

Germany will not purchase any more Puma infantry tanks until they have proven themselves to be reliable, Defence Minister Christine Lambrecht said on Monday after several of the vehicles were put out of service during a recent military drill.

www.reuters.com

Here the Puma is called an infantry tank

Most civilians have no idea what a IFV is and are going to see a large, tracked vehicle with a turret gun like the Puma nad think "tank". It's lazy journalism imo, but it makes sense.

 

[Red Gold]

Is the "Marder" a tank, then?

A statement from the German defence ministry said the goal was to make the Puma tanks operational as soon as possible. Meanwhile, the German Bundeswehr military would use Marder tanks, the predecessor model to the Puma, from Jan. 1, in what a ministry spokesperson called a "fall-back solution".

Germany pauses purchases of Puma tanks after operational problems

Germany will not purchase any more Puma infantry tanks until they have proven themselves to be reliable, Defence Minister Christine Lambrecht said on Monday after several of the vehicles were put out of service during a recent military drill.

www.reuters.com

 

[Red Gold]

Marder means marten, btw

A marten is a weasel-like mammal in the genus Martes within the subfamily Guloninae, in the family Mustelidae. They have bushy tails and large paws with partially retractile claws. The fur varies from yellowish to dark brown, depending on the species; it is valued by animal trappers for the fur trade. Martens are slender, agile animals, adapted to living in the taiga, which inhabit coniferous and northern deciduous forests across the Northern Hemisphere.

Marten - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Nithavela]

Is the "Marder" a tank, then?

Germany pauses purchases of Puma tanks after operational problems

Germany will not purchase any more Puma infantry tanks until they have proven themselves to be reliable, Defence Minister Christine Lambrecht said on Monday after several of the vehicles were put out of service during a recent military drill.

www.reuters.com

A marder is also a Schützenpanzer, an IFV. It's the predecessor of the Puma in that vehicle class.

 

[Arcangl86]

It's one of those cases where the common term and the technical term are different. A tank has a very specific role in combat, as do infantry fighting vehicles, self-propelled artillery and armored reconnaissance vehicles. However they all have a superficially similar form factor and the average person would probably look at all of them and say "that's a tank."

 

[Homeowner]

However they all have a superficially similar form factor and the average person would probably look at all of them and say "that's a tank."

]

 

[Red Gold]

I have now read more about that Puma.
It is quite a skandal, that all those 18 Pumas of the German army (the Bundeswehr) do not work.

One might say that the Bundeswehr is now "wehrlos" = defenceless.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

I have now read more about that Puma.
It is quite a skandal, that all those 18 Pumas of the German army (the Bundeswehr) do not work.

One might say that the Bundeswehr is now "wehrlos" = defenceless.

And then of course the other day, the USAF grounded all 20 B-2s bombers.

 

[Red Gold]

And then of course the other day, the USAF grounded all 20 B-2s bombers.

Here are the news about it:

All 20 of the Air Force’s B-2 Spirit bombers are grounded as the service hunts for potential safety defects, a spokesperson confirmed Monday. The stealth aircraft will be down until further notice.

The Air Force paused the fleet’s operations after a bomber was damaged Dec. 10 at Whiteman Air Force Base, Missouri. An undisclosed in-flight malfunction forced the crew to make an emergency landing on Whiteman’s runway, where firefighters extinguished flames at the scene, according to the 509th Bomb Wing. No one was injured.

B-2 nuclear bomber fleet grounded amid search for safety defects

The Air Force declined to provide details about what, specifically, the safety inspections are looking to find.

www.airforcetimes.com

 

[Homeowner]

And then of course the other day, the USAF grounded all 20 B-2s bombers.

Considering the price of those babies there probably is not such a thing as over caution in their maintenance or operation in peace time.

Puma jamming a gun turret versus 2 billion dollar technological marvel that symbolizes US military technology and might dropping from the sky would be a magnitude of different level of headache for Pentagon.

Planes costing two billion dollars each is just insane.

 

[wing2000]

Considering the price of those babies there probably is not such a thing as over caution in their maintenance or operation in peace time.

Puma jamming a gun turret versus 2 billion dollar technological marvel that symbolizes US military technology and might dropping from the sky would be a magnitude of different level of headache for Pentagon.

Planes costing two billion dollars each is just insane.

From the AF Times article previously linked:

"Air and Space Forces Magazine recently reported B-2 airframes are available for missions about half of the time they are needed."

Insane and unacceptable. I have to question the value of these aircraft. Is there a scenario when the US would actually use a B2's capabilities without triggering WW3?