Was "the Word" Jesus before He/It became flesh?

[Grafted In]

Colossians 2:9

King James Version

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9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

 

[Saint Steven]

Aha, I think you are getting quite close to the truth, my friend. If you ponder further, you will begin to sound like a madman.

Being a heretic is WAY underrated. - LOL

 

[Grafted In]

I have always struggled with the Father speaking to the crowd after Jesus was baptized when Jesus is The Word incarnate. Can anyone help me understand this better?
Hope this isn't OT.

 

[Saint Steven]

Colossians 2:9​

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King James Version​

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9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Who is the "him" spoken of here? Jesus in the flesh, right?
What about at the beginning? The Word.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Was "the Word" Jesus before He/It became flesh?

The Word was the eternal Son of the Father. Jesus is an incarnate person.

 

[Saint Steven]

I have always struggled with the Father speaking to the crowd after Jesus was baptized when Jesus is The Word incarnate. Can anyone help me understand this better?
Hope this isn't OT.

Great question.
All three persons of the Trinity are present in that moment.
Jesus is being baptised, the Spirit descends on him like a dove, and the Father speaks audibly. BINGO!

 

[Saint Steven]

The Word was the eternal Son of the Father. Jesus is an incarnate person.

Thanks for joining the discussion.
Is that supported by scripture? Send help!

 

[Grafted In]

The Father spoke.
Scripture tells us that Jesus Christ created all things and He did so by speaking it into being.

 

[David's Harp]

I like the question Steve. My view is of course that Jesus is the Word, the Logos. He is the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world. Yes, the answer to the question is already within God; Jesus knew his mission before He even created the world. A verse that backs this up is 1 Peter 1:20.

One thing I'm beginning to look at is finding Jesus in the OT. I know I have had a tendency to see Him as pertaining more to the NT, but of course "He is patterned, promised and present from Genesis onward".

 

[Jonaitis]

Being a heretic is WAY underrated. - LOL

I think, people who are too afraid of heresy end up not thinking for themselves about what they actually believe in an honest light.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Thanks for joining the discussion.
Is that supported by scripture? Send help!

Hey, I'm Catholic. What do you want again? Scripture? I'm Catholic. C'mon.

I'll go with the Nicene Creed. It still is the best distillation of the Scriptures I can imagine.

"We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made."

The only Son of God, eternally begotten. What I have long simply called 'the Eternal Son of the Father'. There never was a time that the Son was not the son of the Father. But that's not Jesus.

"For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man."

The eternal Son of the Father becomes a man, was made a man, in time. The new thing is Jesus. An embodied God. Mary and Joseph gave him a name. Before Jesus there was no Jesus, but there was an eternal Son of the Father.

Now I suppose you could go into a speculation about the timelessness of God, and how everything is the eternal present to God. So Jesus as God in the flesh just always was that way in front of the Father. But that thinking makes my head hurt. I am a temporal being and it hurts my head to contemplate the timelessness of God, if that is even a real thing. I can't say it is so. I can say the Logos/Son always was in the presence of the Father.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Thanks for joining the discussion.
Is that supported by scripture? Send help!

Is Jesus the Word?
Is the Word Jesus?
Are those identical questions?

 

[chevyontheriver]

Then why did Gabriel tell them to name him what they did?
hes always had these names?

Yup. Gabriel gave them the name. But why was he not named Emmanuel? Just curious.

 

[Saint Steven]

The Father spoke.
Scripture tells us that Jesus Christ created all things and He did so by speaking it into being.

Are you sure that's what it says, or is that what you have been told? Show me. Thanks.

 

[Saint Steven]

Is Jesus the Word?
Is the Word Jesus?
Are those identical questions?

As always, the cart belongs after the horse, not vice versa.

 

[Saint Steven]

Hey, I'm Catholic. What do you want again? Scripture? I'm Catholic. C'mon.

Thanks for bringing some levity to the topic. Glad you are here. - LOL

 

[Saint Steven]

I like the question Steve. My view is of course that Jesus is the Word, the Logos. He is the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world. Yes, the answer to the question is already within God; Jesus knew his mission before He even created the world. A verse that backs this up is 1 Peter 1:20.

It seems that all of the biblical references are stated after-the-fact, retrospectively, if you will.
I'm trying to get a sense of what this looks like from the other end. If that makes sense.
What was Jesus about before creation?

One thing I'm beginning to look at is finding Jesus in the OT. I know I have had a tendency to see Him as pertaining more to the NT, but of course "He is patterned, promised and present from Genesis onward".

Ah yes, Chritophanies. Very interesting.

 

[Saint Steven]

The only Son of God, eternally begotten. What I have long simply called 'the Eternal Son of the Father'. There never was a time that the Son was not the son of the Father. But that's not Jesus.

Exactly. Well said.
Jesus was the Word, but the Word wasn't Jesus YET.

 

[David's Harp]

Ah yes, Chritophanies. Very interesting.

I'm not limiting it to Christophanies.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The Word became flesh...
It seems we are too quick to conclude that Jesus WAS the Word before He/It became flesh.

Just to be clear, I am a Trinitarian. I am not questioning the Trinity in this topic.
What I want to discuss is the "mechanics", for lack of a better term.

John 1:14 NIV
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
a word, the Word
From lego; something said (including the thought); by implication, a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension, a computation; specially, (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (i.e. Christ) -- account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say(-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.

John 1:1-3 NIV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

My take...
In the beginning was... the Word, the reasoning, the motive, the Divine Expression, the intent, the reason. The logos, the logic, the reason, the answer BEFORE the question "Why"?

Was "the Word" Jesus before He/It became flesh?

If you replace Word with Jesus it becomes very clear. And yes He always existed.
Blessings.

John 1:1-3 NIV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.