5 dead, more than a dozen injured at LGBTQ nightclub in Colorado

[Larniavc]

First of all, you're an atheist. So your credibility on facts about Christians, or Christianity, is sub-par.

I dunno man, more often than not atheists know a lot more about what the Bible says than Christians.

 

[Larniavc]

They are only murderers if they ACT on these impulses. And why is that? Because they put more value in the gratification of their desires than the holding up of moral principals that they know are important, and also because they have a deep respect for others who they know would be emotionally harmed by their ACTIONS.

Actually that makes a lot of sense.

 

[Whyayeman]

The emphasis there is upon the need for a savior. It's not on acceptance of sin in our life and that we should say sin is okay or say nothing about sin. The emphasis of Christ regarding love and kindness and forgiveness is not about telling people they are fine and can sin however they want to. Forgiveness is about forgiving others who have harmed you. And I practice that all the time. Or at least try to to. I'm never perfect on any of that. I am kind to everyone I come in contact with in my personal life. If a gay person needed help I would do everything I can to help them. I've worked with 3 different lesbians and 2 different gay men in my career. I got a long great with all of them. I supported two of them for promotions.

People ask me then why do you post the things you do here then? It's because this community is all about these are types of conversations. If I talked to gay people outside of work and they said, they believe therwnis nothing wrong with being gay and Christians are terrible for say there is something hing wrong with being gay I would certainly have the conversation with them as well. Just like if someone said to me, hey I am an adulterer and I think Christians are bad people for saying I am wrong to be one, I would have the conversation with him as well. Why, because we are supposed to do that.
Being kind is not keeping your mouth shut. But it's sharing the truth in a kind way. I have never in any of these threads called people names like pervert or demanded that they be killed or anything like that. But when I encounter the ole Christians are bad because they think gays are sinners then I have to stand up to that and show what scripture teaches about the subject.
I also often go out of my way to say ALL sin separates us from God and being homosexual is not worse than anything else we might do. But just saying that is enough to raise hackles because people just do not think it is sin. And if you say so you are a hater.
It's interesting to me that it is one sin that people defend to the end. No one says a peep if we say adultery is a sin or theft is a sin or lying is a sin. But say hospitality is and the attacks come out of the woodwork. How dare you say such a thing.

It's good you try and practice good in your life. Most of us do. But it doesn't matter. Your good and mine still doesn't match up to what Christ demanded because we aren't perfect at it. That's why we need to believe in him. You are condemned already. Me too.

Interesting post! It is clear you are sincere in wanting to help people away from what you consider to be sin. I understand that for evangelical Christians it is part of their religious duty; it may be that for you. I should like to put to you the secular argument, which is rarely attempted here.

The concept of sin is a religious thing. As you have put it: do what God says - because God says so. Without that belief it does not mean very much. Yet for a secular society, which is what I live in and which America is becoming (if the decline in reported religious belief is a guide), there is a still a moral code. This code is mostly well observed and enshrined in civil law.

The religious concept of sin and the secular morality overlap but are not identical. I do not adhere to the religious concept of sin but I do try to live a moral life. For me morality begins with my relationships with others and by extension how people behave towards others. I have to accept that everybody has the same rights as me; the same right to liberty, happiness and fulfilment. So, if people live a different life from mine and do no harm to others that is their right. What consenting adults get up to is nobody's business but theirs.

Broadly, it is only when people's behaviour hurts other people that society should take notice.

 

[Think...]

How might you suggest any means whatsoever whereby I would sexually prefer members of the opposite sex?

Well, holding an atheist paradigm isn't a good starting point as you exclude from yourself the spiritual/psychological options that are available to you.

If you've swallowed the brainwashing, hook, line and sinker, that you are physically, permanently structured to be attracted to the same sex forever, it's certainly not an easy enlightenment that this is not true.

And if you can't possibly embrace the concept that homosexuality is a spiritual/mental condition, and not a physical one, you likely have no chance of changing.

Many who come to the realization that their status of same-sex attraction is a spiritual one, and goes against everything that God intended for mankind, are satisfied to become celibate and deny an unnatural state of being rather than live a life that is an affront to God. God expects everyone to fight against their tendencies all their lives. That is the Cross we each have to bear. For some, it is addiction, for some it is anger, for some it is sexual. It is all sin against God and those who are willing to be held accountable to God will take their stand.

I don't know what the percentage would be of those who make a full change from one sexual proclivity to the other, but for many, it is discovered that sex is not the imperative that they were lead to believe it is and they are very happy to do without.

Besides that, there are documented cases of sexual attractions altered by psychology and the military as well has discovered that it can even be changed on the battlefield. Research it a bit.

 

[Think...]

You're a new guy. So you wouldn't know that I actually have found, brought up as a Christian, over the last thirty or forty years, that I have a greater knowledge of Christians and Christianity than the vast majority of those who describe themselves as Christian. Best crank back on what you think you know about somebody based on 2 or 3 posts.

Same goes for you. I'm not sure what exactly you think I'm New at. I go by your information under your Screen Name. You have declared yourself ATHEIST.

Your appeal to that Scottish fallacy is noted.

So it's a Scottish fallacy that those who truly love God don't spend their days in willful sin?

Interesting, uneducated, opinion.

The Christians who walk with Christ daily reside all over the world. They are the scattered sheep just as the Bible tells us.

So that would be the vast majority of self proclaimed Christians. As I pointed out earlier. That's not up for debate. It's a fact. I Just want to know if you accept it or not.

Sure. The vast majority of professed Christians do not walk the Narrow road to Salvation. That is why Jesus told us it is a Narrow road and few there be who find it.
Matthew 7:13-14

 

[Think...]

So you are saying that if YOU hung around with a bunch of gay folks you’d start to feel sexually attracted to them? Really?

Honestly, I don't know the answer to that. I don't make a habit of hanging around people who live in a way that I don't agree with, but NO, that's not what I said at all.

Would one single individual be altered by a crowd of contrary-minded folks if that person was exposed to them enough? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe in some ways, but not others.

But if you put a group of straight youths around a group of gay youths for a period of time, would there be a possibility of individuals on both sides changing their opinions, and possibly attractions? Absolutely 100% certainty.

That's basic human interaction and it's below you to suggest otherwise.

Bad company corrupts good character.
1 Corinthians 15:33

 

[Think...]

I dunno man, more often than not atheists know a lot more about what the Bible says than Christians.

The point of my statement is that an atheist, who has no faith at all - no belief in God to begin with, does not have access to the deeper Truths of Scripture that can only come through the Holy Spirit, and/or through a basic honest desire to seek Truth in God's Words.

Do atheists know more about the Bible than the average Christian? There's really no way to gauge that. Most Christians don't read their Bible, but most atheists read the Bible with a bias and a disdain that leads them only to seek contradiction and information that doesn't align with modern scientific positions. It would be rare for any of them to read it for the purpose of discovering what it actually teaches in its entirety. And the few who have taken that route come away changed. They are afterward referred to as Christians.

I don't agree that an atheist would generally know more than a Christian about the Bible. Why would they?

 

[Think...]

Actually that makes a lot of sense.

Thanks.

I fixed it.

 

[rjs330]

For me morality begins with my relationships with others and by extension how people behave towards others. I have to accept that everybody has the same rights as me; the same right to liberty, happiness and fulfilment. So, if people live a different life from mine and do no harm to others that is their right. What consenting adults get up to is nobody's business but theirs.

Broadly, it is only when people's behaviour hurts other people that society should take notice.

This thread has gone way beyond it's intended subject. You make some statements regarding harm. And there is a lot of information out there regarding the harm being homosexual causes. Not just to themselves, which is bad enough, but the harm they do to others. I highly suggest you do some research on that. Disease they pass on to others is rampant. Emotional and physical abuse is higher than the normal population. Drug use and alcohol abuse is higher. Thier lives are shorter. All these things are harmful to themselves and others. This is not the thread to give greater details in. Perhaps if you are really interested you could research it yourself, look at other threads in the issue or start a new one.

 

[Aldebaran]

I'm here to tell you that that is not the Get Out Of Jail card you think it might be.

More like a "get out of hate crime prosecution" card.
Or even more likely a "Hey, I'm the real victim here!" card.

 

[Bradskii]

Well, holding an atheist paradigm isn't a good starting point as you exclude from yourself the spiritual/psychological options that are available to you.

If you've swallowed the brainwashing, hook, line and sinker, that you are physically, permanently structured to be attracted to the same sex forever, it's certainly not an easy enlightenment that this is not true.

And if you can't possibly embrace the concept that homosexuality is a spiritual/mental condition, and not a physical one, you likely have no chance of changing.

Many who come to the realization that their status of same-sex attraction is a spiritual one, and goes against everything that God intended for mankind, are satisfied to become celibate and deny an unnatural state of being rather than live a life that is an affront to God. God expects everyone to fight against their tendencies all their lives. That is the Cross we each have to bear. For some, it is addiction, for some it is anger, for some it is sexual. It is all sin against God and those who are willing to be held accountable to God will take their stand.

I don't know what the percentage would be of those who make a full change from one sexual proclivity to the other, but for many, it is discovered that sex is not the imperative that they were lead to believe it is and they are very happy to do without.

Besides that, there are documented cases of sexual attractions altered by psychology and the military as well has discovered that it can even be changed on the battlefield. Research it a bit.

So you have no idea. Which was the answer I expected as it's the only one available to you. You can't persuade me to become gay any more than you can persuade anyone else. So all this talk of 'grooming' to suggest otherwise is abject nonsense. You might just as well talk about kids being groomed to be straight

And 'changed on the battlefield'? I don't think that you have any understanding of sexuality whatsoever.

 

[Bradskii]

Same goes for you. I'm not sure what exactly you think I'm New at.

The forum, obviously.

Sure. The vast majority of professed Christians do not walk the Narrow road to Salvation.

Thanks. I just wanted your confirmation that God hates the vast majority of Christians. It's not a view I have come across before so I just needed to check.

 

[Aldebaran]

The forum, obviously.

Thanks. I just wanted your confirmation that God hates the vast majority of Christians. It's not a view I have come across before so I just needed to check.

Some friendly advice here:
If you expect a civil discussion, don't put words in someone's mouth.

 

[Think...]

So you have no idea. Which was the answer I expected as it's the only one available to you. You can't persuade me to become gay any more than you can persuade anyone else. So all this talk of 'grooming' to suggest otherwise is abject nonsense. You might just as well talk about kids being groomed to be straight

And 'changed on the battlefield'? I don't think that you have any understanding of sexuality whatsoever.

My goodness.

Your ignorance must be your crowning achievement.

Do just a touch of research into Govt weapons like I've described.

Here's a tidbit article about the 'Gay Bomb' that was successfully created and almost dropped in the Afghan war.
Gay bomb and BMJ authors win prizes

There's a very wise saying that goes something like:

"It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt."

One should really take heed.

 

[Think...]

The forum, obviously.

Well, let's see, Genius.

If 3 years on the Forum means New to your clearly compromised ability to reason, I suppose that could seem to be true to you then.

Despite that fact, I have been active on Christian Discussion Forums for over a decade.

So, yeah, ... I guess you're wrong all the way around.

At least you're consistent.

Thanks. I just wanted your confirmation that God hates the vast majority of Christians. It's not a view I have come across before so I just needed to check.

If by the vast majority of Christians, you mean all those who live in daily habitual, willful, unrepentant sin, then yes.

Yes, He does.

And you ... are ... welcome.

I can only imagine that life must be very challenging for you.

Hang in there and stop all that ol' nasty sinning. The more you do it, the harder it is to quit it.

The Bible calls it a snare. Watch your step.

 

[Yttrium]

Here's a tidbit article about the 'Gay Bomb' that was successfully created and almost dropped in the Afghan war.
Gay bomb and BMJ authors win prizes

It was an actual research project carried out at Wright Lab in Ohio. It wasn't successfully created. It never got past testing. But if it had been created, sure, it would have been fun to use in the Afghan war. I mean, we couldn't really have used it, since it would have been a bio weapon, but it would have been fun.

 

[Bradskii]

Disease they pass on to others is rampant. Emotional and physical abuse is higher than the normal population. Drug use and alcohol abuse is higher. Thier lives are shorter. All these things are harmful to themselves and others.

All things that one should do one's best to avoid. Whatever one's sexuality. But you must realise that if none of those things apply then you literally have no argument and must resort back to 'God doesn't like it'. So if you have an elderly aunt who has been living in a same sex monogamous relationship for the last 40 years, then your argument that it's harmful doesn't apply.

If I thought my son and my daughter were in danger of sleeping around with multiple partners and could well leave themselves open to disease and drug use, emotional and physical abuse and one of them is gay and one straight, then why do you think it's likely to happen? It certainly seems like your response would be 'Ah, all those problems your gay kid is experiencing is just because he or she is gay. It's making them do it. The other one...well, that's just because they are making bad choices'.

Or we can try another scenario when one kid is sleeping around and the other is in a loving and stable long term relationship. Which is the one that's likely to suffer any of the problems you listed?

 

[rambot]

My point is that True Christians do not sin on a regular, daily, casual basis.

Yes, the vast majority of Christians DO sin quite a lot, casually and daily. Unfortunately, that is because they have been convinced that all Christians are sinners. Which is a blasphemous LIE.

As far as your contention that "I" am making some demands of Christians, you are mistaken. I am conveying exactly the Bible actually teaches about the subject.

I am curious what denomination you belong to. I am Christian reformed and, I have NEVER heard that from my pulpit.... I mean, not even close.

So I'm curious...if you don't mind sharing.

 

[Bradskii]

If by the vast majority of Christians, you mean all those who live in daily habitual, willful, unrepentant sin, then yes.

Yes, He does.

Yes, all those. The vast majority. I really didn't know God hated so many people (I'm assuming you're excluded). At least I feel like I'm not alone.

 

[Neogaia777]

This might sound pedantic but who long will that take? There’s been gay folks around since forever and today most of western society enjoys the highest quality of life ever.

Just when will sexual immorality bring it all tumbling down?

It's the chicken and the egg with sexual sin as in how it is connected, or is interconnected, also with others sins, but as all sins get worse, it most of the time, leads to a collapse of that society, historically, etc...

And it's the sexual immorality, and not necessarily being gay, that I was talking about also, and if you read some of my prior posts, you might know that, etc...

God Bless!