5 dead, more than a dozen injured at LGBTQ nightclub in Colorado

[rambot]

That on Sunday they are degenerates and on Monday they are people you get on with. That you respect. That you love.

What's interesting is listening to servers who frequently work the after church crowd. In my experience they have been described as the "rudest and most self centred" group that comes all week. I mean, if folks in church can't even manage to show patience and love to someone helping them an hour after church, what exactly IS in their heart?

 

[Aldebaran]

It always has been.

Nope! It was simply a sexual preference or a mental illness. Now that it's taught as something to be celebrated and "proud" of, the mental illness is no longer treated, but rather encouraged until it reaches its inevitable conclusion.

 

[Aldebaran]

I think people are becoming aware that some of their friends are gay. Some of their work colleagues. The guy at the supermarket bagging groceries. The girl that waits table in the local diner. One of their relatives. Perhaps a son or a daughter. And they realise that these are normal people. They can see that they are people just like ourselves. Trying to make ends meet. Working hard. Good people always with a smile and a friendly word.

And then they listen to what some of those religious leaders are saying as we saw in those links in the op. And they know with absolute certainty that they are wrong. That it's not right to call them degenerate. And they make a decision. They decide that if that is what that particular church teaches then they want no part of it. They can't accept what is being taught and then treat the girl in the diner or their work mate, or their son, as if nothing had been said. That on Sunday they are degenerates and on Monday they are people you get on with. That you respect. That you love.

And you are bemused as to why people are falling away from churches? If I were you I'd be astonished if that wasn't the case.

Some people also realize that their friends, coworkers, and relatives that they see as "normal" are alcoholics, drug abusers, are depressed, or abused by a spouse, or are even involved in highly illegal activity that they managed to keep a secret from everyone all these years. Once they realize this, they don't say, "Oh, I guess those things are just normal."
But if it turns out that they're sexually confused to the point of wanting their genitals cut off, and want to take in chemicals that will alter their body in irreversible ways, then we're supposed to conclude that they're just "normal"?

 

[Bradskii]

Of course it does. You and the other leftists in this thread blamed the Christians for this. Then it turns out this guy wasn't one, and was actually part of the LGBT community. And you still want to blame Christians. And you preach about villification? You better take a long hard look in the mirror.

Blaming a group for something they had nothing to do with? And then doubling down when it's shown they didn't. Says a lot.

We're not blaming Christianity. We are not blaming all Christians. This has been specifically stated and I strongly object to your claim that that is what is being done. And whether the guy was Christian or not is really irrelevant. It's the atmosphere that is formented by the diatribes we saw in the op which is the problem. It encourages some idiots to go that one step further and take action on the words that are being spouted from some pulpits. They feel justified in what they are doing.

It's those pastors and reverends in those links that are the problem. Those and those like them. They call themselves Christians. But they are nothing like the Christians I know. They have nothing to do with the Christianity I was taught.

 

[Bradskii]

Some people also realize that their friends, coworkers, and relatives that they see as "normal" are alcoholics, drug abusers, are depressed, or abused by a spouse, or are even involved in highly illegal activity that they managed to keep a secret from everyone all these years. Once they realize this, they don't say, "Oh, I guess those things are just normal."
But if it turns out that they're sexually confused to the point of wanting their genitals cut off, and want to take in chemicals that will alter their body in irreversible ways, then we're supposed to conclude that they're just "normal"?

If you had a relevant point about why these attacks are becoming more common then I'd respond to it. Unfortunately there is nothing in that post that I consider worth replying to.

 

[Larniavc]

You wonder why Christians get persecuted? Maybe it's because some of us, due to baseless prejudice, call people groomers but never address, own or take responsibility foe the MANY groomers within our ranks

I can't help wondering how many MORE instances there are of grooming by a member of the clergy than by a drag queen.

 

[rjs330]

That is interesting.I have observed that there are very few quotations from the Gospels on any subject discussed here.

Here's your chance!

Jesus addresses the the issue than God created man and woman. He then said that a man should leave his father and mother and be with his wife. He affirmed the creation story that man and women were created for each other and not man for man or woman for woman.

The other important point to make is that Jesus IS God and nothing was created except through him. So he affirmed himself in this. And since he is God He also created the Law which forbade homosexuality in the Law. There is no where in the gospels where Jesus said he changed his mind in the matter. It was still a sexual sin. And since the apostles were taught by God and inspired by God what to write, Since Christ IS God then what the apostles wrote are also from him.

So Jesus was clear that his intent from the beginning was make and female and that THEY are the ones that were created to be together. Anything else is a violation of that intent. Therefore it is absolutely wrong and hasn't changed.

 

[Aldebaran]

If you had a relevant point about why these attacks are becoming more common then I'd respond to it. Unfortunately there is nothing in that post that I consider worth replying to.

And yet you did reply. Much appreciated!

 

[Aldebaran]

It's those pastors and reverends in those links that are the problem. Those and those like them. They call themselves Christians. But they are nothing like the Christians I know. They have nothing to do with the Christianity I was taught.

If the Christianity you were taught has led you to be an Atheist, then why do you see pastors who teach it a different way as a problem (those and those like them)?

 

[Bradskii]

The other important point to make is that Jesus IS God and nothing was created except through him.

You might want to take a moment and contemplate that statement.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Of course it does. You and the other leftists in this thread blamed the Christians for this. Then it turns out this guy wasn't one, and was actually part of the LGBT community. And you still want to blame Christians. And you preach about villification? You better take a long hard look in the mirror.

Blaming a group for something they had nothing to do with? And then doubling down when it's shown they didn't. Says a lot.

The shooting itself was real enough, but the entire narrative behind the shooting, on which this thread is based, is a hoax. That renders this entire discussion moot.

 

[Bradskii]

If the Christianity you were taught has led you to be an Atheist, then why do you see pastors who teach it a different way a problem (those and those like them)?

I sincerely hope that that is not some kind of justification for the people who said such despicable things. Although simply by asking the question you are implying that there is no difference.

What I was taught as a Christian still holds for me. The lessons I learned, what I was taught by my devout parents and what I assimilated just by the actions of their friends and fellow congregationalists is still with me. I rejected the supernatural aspects of religion but the teachings of Jesus are still relevant.

What those pastors in the op were spouting was bile. It's evil. It has no place in a religion that holds Jesus to be the example to which we should all strive. And it's an embarressment to even ask why we should not consider those people a problem.

 

[rambot]

I can't help wondering how many MORE instances there are of grooming by a member of the clergy than by a drag queen.

Well if we're being honest, you'd need to compare RATES.
But even still, I'm inclined to agree that the rate is WAAAAY higher.

 

[rjs330]

View attachment 323822


So long as we know who is supporting terrorists. And, let's be honest, this is a TEXTBOOK definition of terrorism; violence directed at a specific group to cause terror in that group.

There is a fundamental disconnect in how they are using the word groomer. And I know this from my experience working with many kids who are groomed.

Groomers don't just talk to people to "convince" them of something. They don't tell stories about their life; they don't create a nurturing space for people to figure themselves out. That is NOT what Groomers do. Groomers do NOT seperate their targets from people who dislike them. And if kids think they even MIGHT be gay or trans and their parents vocally hate those groups there is no need to manipulate that.

Groomers manipulate targets' relationships and ISOLATE them. Groomers make their hits feel UTTERLY dependent on them as individuals. They provide them with gifts to create a "favour credit". Groomers do NOT have their targets best interests or feelings in mind. They are ONLY self serving. They are narcissists.


When gay and trans people talk with kids, the reason why it looks like grooming is because:
1) Parents THINK that LGBTQ folks are driving a wedge between them and their questioning/gay/trans children when they are not. Parents are doing that. Parents think that they are showing love and protecting their kids but if a child is questioning where they are at, they are NOT protecting at all. They think "I love my child and they love me so I know everything about them" when that is not the case. MAny/most gay kids are terrified of telling their parents and frankly, it seems ludicrous to think you know everything your kid (let's say teenager) thinks at the BEST of times. They also fall under the misapprehension that saying "being gay is a sin" will encourage their children to stop being gay. Because fundamentally they believe being gay is a choice and not something inherent in who they are. If they understood that their child could JUST be gay and it's who they are, perhaps they'd approach it differently and would realize that you can't accuse someone of grooming a child into being gay.

2) They think gay trans folk have this desire to turn EVERYONE gay when that is simply not the case. They simply want kids who are gay to feel comfortable enough to say so and for them NOT to get the snot beat out of them in the washroom.

What I DON'T see gay people doing en masse (ie....as some kind of personality quirk of being gay) is manipulating those kids; of trying to control kids; of buying them jewelry to turn them gay. I DON'T see gay people driving a wedge between children and LOVING parents (and by loving, I mean children that are accepted for who they are, and cared for).


Now I'm NOT saying it doesn't happen. Of COURSE there are terrible gay people who manipulate children into being sexual victims. But it's ABSURD to think this is an exclusively homosexual modus operandi. The problem is identifying ALL gay people this way, or suggesting even MOST gay people are this way. As I said, there is FAR more evidence that the church has a problem with sexual impropriety than gay people.

Let's review. Which one of them said it's okay that it's happening? Your link doesn't allow us to see the whole video. I think I would like to.

Which one of them said we should or it's okay to conduct these shootings?

 

[rjs330]

If you had a relevant point about why these attacks are becoming more common then I'd respond to it. Unfortunately there is nothing in that post that I consider worth replying to.

He's right you know. Parents raise their kids thinking they are going to be a normal kid. Then suddenly they come out and their little boy proclaims he's now a girl? And they are supposed to immediately throw their arms around them and say how wonderful? No, humans generally do t work that way. Suddenly their entire view is altered in a moment. Yes they are going to have a negative reaction. Wonder what happened. Thier boy has done something completely abnormal. Or the kid professes to be gay. Another completely abnormal behavior. Most parents are not going to react well to that as shown by the statistics. And it's patently foolish to think they should. You don't understand human psychology if you do.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

So the Right should surrender power to someone worse like Clinton or Biden who are a definitive enemies of Christian interests? Huh.

I think I would prefer to win rather than to surrender all power on the basis of my enemy's principles.

The problem was, some Christian support for Trump wasn't just of the "well, he's the candidate who best serves the majority of our interests" kind. It was way beyond that.

It was the whooping, hollering, cheering, almost worship of the guy, glossing over every bad point and blindly supporting every policy no matter how bad it was and no matter how much it was against what Christians should see as good.

THAT was the problem.

 

[rjs330]

I sincerely hope that that is not some kind of justification for the people who said such despicable things. Although simply by asking the question you are implying that there is no difference.

What I was taught as a Christian still holds for me. The lessons I learned, what I was taught by my devout parents and what I assimilated just by the actions of their friends and fellow congregationalists is still with me. I rejected the supernatural aspects of religion but the teachings of Jesus are still relevant.

What those pastors in the op were spouting was bile. It's evil. It has no place in a religion that holds Jesus to be the example to which we should all strive. And it's an embarressment to even ask why we should not consider those people a problem.

Yes what those pastors said was wrong. They are a tiny tiny minority. Why are are you so focused on such a small group? Nobody ever heard of these guys except people who want to search for and highlite them.

You are the ones that are making them more well known than they are.

 

[rjs330]

No, they AREN'T grooming the kids.

Argument by assertion is fun. :Rolleyes:

It's been proven over and over again. We've got videos, personal accounts and lesson plans. We've got media showing it and doing it. So it's pretty hard to miss unless you are intentionally trying to.

 

[Whyayeman]

Jesus addresses the the issue than God created man and woman. He then said that a man should leave his father and mother and be with his wife. He affirmed the creation story that man and women were created for each other and not man for man or woman for woman.

The other important point to make is that Jesus IS God and nothing was created except through him. So he affirmed himself in this. And since he is God He also created the Law which forbade homosexuality in the Law. There is no where in the gospels where Jesus said he changed his mind in the matter. It was still a sexual sin. And since the apostles were taught by God and inspired by God what to write, Since Christ IS God then what the apostles wrote are also from him.

So Jesus was clear that his intent from the beginning was make and female and that THEY are the ones that were created to be together. Anything else is a violation of that intent. Therefore it is absolutely wrong and hasn't changed.

There you are again! That was your big chance, yet still no Gospel quotation!

I don't want to make too much of this, but the dearth of Gospel quotes persists.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

The problem was, some Christian support for Trump wasn't just of the "well, he's the candidate who best serves the majority of our interests" kind. It was way beyond that.

It was the whooping, hollering, cheering, almost worship of the guy, glossing over every bad point and blindly supporting every policy no matter how bad it was and no matter how much it was against what Christians should see as good.

THAT was the problem.

Yeah but that happens with any political candidate. Christians aren't especially guilty of being overly energetic about their candidates. That's the nature of politics.