Is Christmas marketing sinful or wrong?

[Lukaris]

To make these false, horrid, associations to the birth of our Lord is unbelievable. Read 2nd Maccabees 10:1-9 Bible Gateway passage: 2 Maccabees 10:1-8 - Good News Translation

This is when Judas Maccabaeus purified the temple that had been desecrated by the pagans!! This was initially Hanukkah until the birth of our Lord. Read verse 7 which states the people carried branches, boughs etc. singing psalms. This is the inspiration for boughs & holly & Christmas hymns and carols not paganism!! Read verse 5 that this was done on the 25th day of Chislev which corresponds to December 25th the day we celebrate Nativity. Is it any coincidence that shepherds first heard this proclomation ( Luke 2:8-20 ) and that the Lord made his announcement as being the good Shepard probably on this same day in this same place ( John 10:1-23 )?

Stop reading that junk and give glory to Jesus Christ.

 

[PittBullMom]

My business is custom fishing rods. They vary from fair price to a little spendy. It's not really a need for anyone. I started the business before I was a Christian.

If I could start over I'd serve a need more, but it's hard to shift gears, and this is a relatively new thought in my faith walk.

I can put more focus on Keep Christ in Christmas with our advertising - it's been one thought.

Thank you all so far!

Fishing and Christmas go great together! How many times did they go fishing in the gospel? Lol but then you'd have to tell your customers soon they'll be fishers of men lol

 

[buzuxi02]

My business is custom fishing rods. They vary from fair price to a little spendy. It's not really a need for anyone. I started the business before I was a Christian.

If I could start over I'd serve a need more, but it's hard to shift gears, and this is a relatively new thought in my faith walk.

I can put more focus on Keep Christ in Christmas with our advertising - it's been one thought.

Thank you all so far!

If you can Keep Christ in Christmas more then your already way ahead. Whether for better or worse Christmas is a secular holiday unless your actually a church-going christian. Note that Christmas is a federal holiday inspite of the separation of Church from state. (Basically everyone makes money from it so eliminating it is in no one's interest.)

 

[buzuxi02]

I am taking in to account the calendar shift, in fact because of the calendar shift the dates of Saturnalia went from the 17th through the 23rd of December prior to the shift, and after it became 19th - the 25th. The 25th was the climax of the s

Thanks for the history lesson. Now can your unbiased sources tell us why Armenians celebrate Christmas along with the Theophany on January 6. Why the majority of the other Eastern Christians celebrate it on January 7.
Why the Greeks originally handed out gifts (up until a few decades ago) seven days after the Nativity? (Hint: it's a feast day of a dude who lived in modern day Turkey in a town where the Demre River passed through.)

 

[prodromos]

Why the Greeks originally handed out gifts (up until a few decades ago) seven days after the Nativity?

Some of us still do

 

[ArmyMatt]

Thanks for the history lesson. Now can your unbiased sources tell us why Armenians celebrate Christmas along with the Theophany on January 6. Why the majority of the other Eastern Christians celebrate it on January 7.
Why the Greeks originally handed out gifts (up until a few decades ago) seven days after the Nativity? (Hint: it's a feast day of a dude who lived in modern day Turkey in a town where the Demre River passed through.)

I know in some places too, like certain parts of Germany and Austria, the Christ Child (Christkind) is the one Who brings the gifts. sounds pretty unpagan to me.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Fishing and Christmas go great together! How many times did they go fishing in the gospel? Lol but then you'd have to tell your customers soon they'll be fishers of men lol

I have to agree ... there's a lot of overlap!

Great to see you, PBM. I hope you've been well in the Lord.

 

[Devin P]

Thanks for the history lesson. Now can your unbiased sources tell us why Armenians celebrate Christmas along with the Theophany on January 6. Why the majority of the other Eastern Christians celebrate it on January 7.
Why the Greeks originally handed out gifts (up until a few decades ago) seven days after the Nativity? (Hint: it's a feast day of a dude who lived in modern day Turkey in a town where the Demre River passed through.)

Well, to answer this, we have to look at who started the nativity.

Saint Francis of Assisi back in 1223 in Greccio.

He did this to attempt to place the emphasis for the gift giving that had been going before this time by the secular greeks, more on Jesus, and less on the gift giving that went on long before this time, and still continued.

But what I was saying, was that the gift giving that was happening at this time, was the custom of Saturnalia. They gave gifts. While Jesus was alive, and long before He was alive this tradition of gift giving on saturnalia was going on. The nativity was only made to help make saturnalia (christmas) less about the gifts, and more about Jesus.

Look, I know you might not like this, and maybe you won't accept where we get Christmas from. Cool, all I'm saying, is God doesn't historically appreciate taking something pagan, and placing His name on it. It's still pagan.

Nadab and Abihu tried to use a foreign custom to worship Him with, and instantly died because of it. Because it's not something He commanded, and it was left up to their judgement. Our judgement is wrong, and I believe that using our judgement to worship Him in a way we see fit, and not the ways He already has given us, is a perfect example of leaning on our own understanding.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Well, to answer this, we have to look at who started the nativity.

Saint Francis of Assisi back in 1223 in Greccio.

He did this to attempt to place the emphasis for the gift giving that had been going before this time by the secular greeks, more on Jesus, and less on the gift giving that went on long before this time, and still continued.

But what I was saying, was that the gift giving that was happening at this time, was the custom of Saturnalia. They gave gifts. While Jesus was alive, and long before He was alive this tradition of gift giving on saturnalia was going on. The nativity was only made to help make saturnalia (christmas) less about the gifts, and more about Jesus.

Look, I know you might not like this, and maybe you won't accept where we get Christmas from. Cool, all I'm saying, is God doesn't historically appreciate taking something pagan, and placing His name on it. It's still pagan.

Nadab and Abihu tried to use a foreign custom to worship Him with, and instantly died because of it. Because it's not something He commanded, and it was left up to their judgement. Our judgement is wrong, and I believe that using our judgement to worship Him in a way we see fit, and not the ways He already has given us, is a perfect example of leaning on our own understanding.

except that gift giving for Christians has nothing to do with paganism. the Christian tie in, aside from Scripture, is actually 900 years before Francis.

and the gold plundered from pagan Egypt made the Ark. so just because something has a pagan origin, that doesn't mean God can't use it for good.

 

[Devin P]

except that gift giving for Christians has nothing to do with paganism. the Christian tie in, aside from Scripture, is actually 900 years before Francis.

and the gold plundered from pagan Egypt made the Ark. so just because something has a pagan origin, that doesn't mean God can't use it for good.

Well, I mean, traditions can be pagan. Gold can't be. God created gold. He didn't create pagan tradition. God created the moon and the sun, but just because people used it to worship in pagan ways, doesn't make them pagan. A tradition is different than something God Himself created.

Idk. Accept it, reject it, it's up to you. I'm just pointing out the fact that historically we get christmas from saturnalia. That early figures merged the two in attempts to merge the people. That saturnalia went for 12 days, ended on the 25th, was used to honor the birthday of Mithra (the 25th), and the yule log, the tree itself, the act of gift giving, all came straight from the feast venerating mithra.

It wasn't until centuries later that people started calling it the birth of Jesus, and comparing the things mentioned on this thread for the validation of using it for Jesus. I can literally show you book after book, quote after quote of people who are responsible for this merge, attesting to this.

Regardless - we can agree to disagree. I'll not respond, but if someone responds to me, I'm most likely going to respond - I may not, but it depends on how I feel and what the contents of their message is.

 

[Hermit76]

If you are concerned about having a wrong "spirit" about Christmas sales, I would say you will be ok. There's probably no unclean greed within you. Serve the public through your sales and be happy that Christ is incarnate!

 

[Hermit76]

Satan's best go at Christians is to deceive them into mimicking a pagan act within their own holiday?????

I would have gone with sex, drugs, and rock and roll if I were Satan!

 

[ArmyMatt]

Well, I mean, traditions can be pagan. Gold can't be. God created gold. He didn't create pagan tradition. God created the moon and the sun, but just because people used it to worship in pagan ways, doesn't make them pagan. A tradition is different than something God Himself created.

Idk. Accept it, reject it, it's up to you. I'm just pointing out the fact that historically we get christmas from saturnalia. That early figures merged the two in attempts to merge the people. That saturnalia went for 12 days, ended on the 25th, was used to honor the birthday of Mithra (the 25th), and the yule log, the tree itself, the act of gift giving, all came straight from the feast venerating mithra.

It wasn't until centuries later that people started calling it the birth of Jesus, and comparing the things mentioned on this thread for the validation of using it for Jesus. I can literally show you book after book, quote after quote of people who are responsible for this merge, attesting to this.

Regardless - we can agree to disagree. I'll not respond, but if someone responds to me, I'm most likely going to respond - I may not, but it depends on how I feel and what the contents of their message is.

the problem is a lot of the stuff you posted has nothing to do with us. you have not shown anything erroneous in our expression or history of celebrating the Feast, and you have not actually responded to what we have said about her history.

you ignored the actual original date of Christmas, putting Nativity weeks after saturnalia, and that the Christmas tree and the Yule log are historically not ours.

and yes, God made the gold, much like He made the human heart that in its natural state, gives to others.

 

[buzuxi02]

Who is this Francis of Assisi? I know St Ephraim the Syrian whose hymns of the Nativity in 360AD makes clear that the feast day falls on January 6 of the Greek calendar. He makes clear that the lamb was shut up in the womb 9 months earlier on the 10th of nisan corresponding to early April on his calendar. Ephraim in his 4th Nativity Hymn makes clear the feast is celebrated 13 days after the days become longer. That the feast coincides with the Theophany and the remembrance of the beheading of John the Baptist. Because John the Baptist taught that he must decrease while the Lamb of God must increase. Hence the celebration of the Nativity and the Beheading of the Baptist are celebrated closely because its when the Light increases while the role of the Baptist comes to an end.
Now go learn about the Liturgical cycle not the protestant nonsense of picking which Latin holidays you want to retain or not in isolation of a coherent liturgical calendar.

P.S I already know about Saturnalia I also know of the Syrian and Greek traditions and the Persian traditions and their calendars. With all your reading you still have not figured out that we follow Eastern Christianity, our customs are not European based. What in hell is a yule log? What kind of plant is misletoe? Christmas tree? Before WW2 no one in eastern Europe even heard of them.

 

[prodromos]

Well, I mean, traditions can be pagan. Gold can't be. God created gold. He didn't create pagan tradition. God created the moon and the sun, but just because people used it to worship in pagan ways, doesn't make them pagan. A tradition is different than something God Himself created.

God created the times and the seasons, which the Church has utilised in establishing the feasts and fasts throughout the liturgical year. It matters not what pagans have done with the times and seasons.

Idk. Accept it, reject it, it's up to you. I'm just pointing out the fact that historically we get christmas from saturnalia.

We have demonstrated that to be false. You don't seem to want to accept that and prefer to remain in falsehood.

That early figures merged the two in attempts to merge the people. That saturnalia went for 12 days, ended on the 25th, was used to honor the birthday of Mithra (the 25th),

There was no celebration of a birthday of Mithra. That is pure speculation by Vermaseren which has no support from his peers.

and the yule log, the tree itself, the act of gift giving, all came straight from the feast venerating mithra.

There is no archaeological evidence supporting this. It sounds like some of Alexander Hislop's fiction.

It wasn't until centuries later that people started calling it the birth of Jesus, and comparing the things mentioned on this thread for the validation of using it for Jesus. I can literally show you book after book, quote after quote of people who are responsible for this merge, attesting to this.

They probably all quote the same false information. Facts are not determined by the number of people who repeat the same

 

[Red Gold]

I'm not sure where to post this. I am between Catholic and Orthodoxy a little, so I value thoughts from that perspective.

I own a small business, and had this wondering if it's wrong to use Christmas to promote sales for profit?

Any thoughts?

[Video]

Christmas Market in Strasbourg (Straßburg) - across the River Rhine from here.

And I do not think that it is sinful.

 

[prodromos]

This thread has been dormant for 5 years. Why the need to resurrect it?

 

[Red Gold]

This thread has been dormant for 5 years. Why the need to resurrect it?

Because Christmas is near!
Haven't you noticed?
And I searched the forum for the word "Christmas Market".

Btw: If it should be not allowed to revive an interesting topic, then this thread should be closed.

 

[peregrinus2017]

I think with the forum upgrades showing 'similar' threads, you can expect many ancient thread resurrections.

 

[Red Gold]

I think with the forum upgrades showing 'similar' threads, you can expect many ancient thread resurrections.

I do not know what is wrong with a resurrection!