How to become a Calvinist in 5 easy steps

[Clare73]

It sounded like that was one of your arguments why God has decreed everything, so He could foreknow everything. If you didn't mean anything like that it was a misreading on my part.

Indeed, that was a serious misreading on your part. . .

I was simply explaining the nature and operation of divine foreknowledge as it is presented in Scripture.

 

[zoidar]

Indeed, that was a serious misreading on your part. . .

I was simply explaining the nature and operation of divine foreknowledge as it is presented in Scripture.

I know that. I was also reading between the lines I suppose.

 

[Mark Quayle]

No, free will is directly mentioned in the scriptures.

“but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.”
‭‭Philemon‬ ‭1‬:‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Philemon‬ ‭1‬:‭14

New International Version
But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do would not seem forced but would be voluntary.

New Living Translation
But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent. I wanted you to help because you were willing, not because you were forced.

English Standard Version
but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own accord.

Interlinear
Apart from however - your consent nothing I wished to do so that not as according to necessity the good of you may be but according to willingness.

The Berean Literal also says "according to willingness". The Berean Standard, and several others are wrong on this one. Philemon 1:14 does not mention free will.

 

[Mark Quayle]

If God is just, which He is and I posted many verses,
then He would give to each as he DESERVES.

What we deserve is based on our accepting God's commandments or not.
Accepting Jesus as our Savior or not.

God, being merciful, which He is, would allow His creation (us) to KNOW
HOW to become saved.

A plan from before the beginning of time.

And so, you have whereof to boast.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Has anyone answered you?

A Calvinist is a person that is of the reformed faith that came about in the 1,500's.
It's called calvinism because it's more understood by most persons.

Calvin believed in double predestination.
This means that:
MAN HAS NO FREE WILL
MAN IS TOTALLY UNABLE TO SEEK OR FIND GOD
GOD HAS TO CHOSE WHOM WILL BE SAVED BECAUSE OF THE ABOVE.

Calvinism is explained by the acronym T.U.L.I.P.
This acronym was explained in the 1930's if I remember correctly.

See the following for an explanation:
Please note that calvinism is not biblical and was never accepted by the church.

T Total Depravity: Man is born totally depraved and is unable to seek God or find Him.
U Unconditional Election: Because of the above, it is God that chooses who will be saved and who will be damned.
L Limited Atonement: Jesus did not die for the whole world, but only for the chosen by God.
I Irresistible Grace: When God wants to save someone, His grace is irristible - the person will be saved.
P Perseverance of the Saints: If a person is chosen by God, he will persevere till the end and never forfeit his salvation.

@J Mick I hope you can recognize bias when you see it. Read with a strong dose of skepticism

 

[Mark Quayle]

By Early Church Fathers two ideas are accepted by different theologians:
1. They are the Apostolic and Early Fathers that were taught by the Apostles until the year 325AD
2. Ditto except some theologians accept that they are early fathers until about 600 or even 700AD

I agree with number 1.
After the Council of Nicea, in the year 325AD, the church aligned itself with states (governments) and it became impure.

Then your comment concerning the church fathers while scripture was still being written does not apply to the conversation.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Because the just God that I know tells us HOW we can come to salvation.
If God doesn't tell HOW He picks it means He doesn't care if we're saved or not.
That would not be a merciful God or a just God.

At first read what you wrote here made no sense to me. At second read, I started to understand: You think God does whatever he does as a result of what we do. You assume that if God doesn't tell us how he picks then we have to make a guess how to get picked. You assume getting picked is OUR responsibility! It is not.

Where Mark?
If God doesn't tell me how I can be saved...
where do I look?
None of us earned salvation...this is why a plan was set into place from the beginning.

For instance, 1 Cor 15:2 tells us that it is this good news that saves us if we continue to believe in the message Paul gave.
Christ died for our sins.
He was buried and raised from the dead.

Romans also tells us how we can be saved...
Romans 5:1
1Therefore, since we have been made right in God’s sight by faith, we have peace with God because of what Jesus Christ our Lord has done for us.
2Because of our faith, Christ has brought us into this place of undeserved privilege where we now stand, and we confidently and joyfully look forward to sharing God’s glory.


And God has shown us the way to be saved:


Romans 3:21
21But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago.
22We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.


We are made right by placing our faith in Jesus...
an action we must take.

Then, since none of us earned salvation, why must we do something to get picked? God doesn't walk into the SPCH, to adopt us.

Seems to me like He DID let us in on His secrets.
Don't the above verses support this?

As to justice:

Romans 2:5-6
5But because you are stubborn and refuse to turn from your sin, you are storing up terrible punishment for yourself. For a day of anger is coming, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.
6He will judge everyone according to what they have done.
7He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. 8But he will pour out his anger and wrath on those who live for themselves, who refuse to obey the truth and instead live lives of wickedness.

God will give eternal life to those SEEKING AFTER THE GLORY AND HONOR AND IMMORTALITY THAT GOD OFFERS.

God offers,
We respond.

Your whole post is incomprehensible to me, except in small unrelated doses, unless I consider that you assume we must put ourselves in the way of the juggernaut of God's salvation (or something). You actually think that in the end, our salvation is our responsibility.

 

[Mark Quayle]

No one is born condemned. We have to sin first. We’ve been through this discussion already. It’s plainly stated right there in Romans 5:12.

“Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The "because" is a poor translation. It is literally "in that" or "for that". If 'because all sinned' is preferred, it should be understood as a shortened "[I say this] because all sinned". The 'because', in this verse, is not causal of death spreading to all men. The fact that all have sinned is not how death spread, but evidence that death spread.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Au contraire. . .you have not addressed Ro 5:12-15, being true to it words and consistent with its argument, where imputation is presented.

Imputation is not the "inheritance" by natural birth of Eze 18:17, as is our fallen nature.
We do not inherit Adam's sin, it is imputed to us, as the pattern of Christ (Ro 5:14).

So of what is sinful Adam the pattern for the righteous Christ?
The imputation of (the first) Adam's sin is the pattern for the imputation of (the second Adam) Christ's righteousness (Ro 4:1-11).
"JUST AS the many were made sinners, SO ALSO the many will be made righteous." (Ro 5:19)

What’s your point here? What do you think Romans 5:12-15 is saying?

 

[Mark Quayle]

This is no scriptural argument, but why do you think God needs to decree something for Him to know it before hand. For man that might sound logical, but God is God.

Consider the notion that God decreeing it IS him knowing it, i.e. that they are one and the same thing for him.

You seem to think that God's decree is like a king making an announcement to his subjects, us. Not so. It is him speaking a fact into existence.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Read my response again. . .you are "misunderstanding" it. . .again.

I'm beginning to think that some people get sarcastic as a method of answering when they have nothing of substance to answer what they have been told. It's a form of ad hom, and not altogether honest.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Au contraire. . .you have not addressed Ro 5:12-15, being true to it words and consistent with its argument, where imputation is presented.

Imputation is not the "inheritance" by natural birth of Eze 18:17, as is our fallen nature.
We do not inherit Adam's sin, it is imputed to us, as the pattern of Christ (Ro 5:14).

So of what is sinful Adam the pattern for the righteous Christ?
The imputation of (the first) Adam's sin is the pattern for the imputation of (the second Adam) Christ's righteousness (Ro 4:1-11).
"JUST AS the many were made sinners, SO ALSO the many will be made righteous." (Ro 5:19)

To the reader: As Clare's "official editor", I enter this note:

Above, where she says, "Imputation is not the "inheritance" by natural birth of Eze 18:17, as is our fallen nature. We do not inherit Adam's sin, it is imputed to us, as the pattern of Christ (Ro 5:14)." She spoke as she does sometimes. Don't take her to believe that we do not "inherit" a fallen nature. She knows very well that we have "inherited" a fallen nature. After all, she just said in the sentence before that Eze 18:17 spoke of this inherited fallen nature. What she is saying is that Romans 5, though not denying "inheritance", is speaking of another way in which we have acquired our sin guilt —that of "imputation".

 

[Mark Quayle]

And I’ve already proven to you that sin is never imputed.

“he keeps his hand from the poor, does not take interest or increase, but executes My ordinances, and walks in My statutes; he will not die for his father’s iniquity, he will surely live. As for his father, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was not good among his people, behold, he will die for his iniquity. “Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity?’ When the son has practiced justice and righteousness and has observed all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live. The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18‬:‭17‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Paul never actually said that sin is imputed upon us that’s just your interpretation, which contradicts the passage above.

Ha! Is your passage better than mine? Do the two disagree with each other? Are they mutually exclusive? Does Scripture contradict itself?Numbers 14:18
‘The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.’

Au contraire. . .you have not addressed Ro 5:12-15, being true to it words and consistent with its argument, where imputation is presented.

Imputation is not the "inheritance" by natural birth of Eze 18:17, as is our fallen nature.
We do not inherit Adam's sin, it is imputed to us, as the pattern of Christ (Ro 5:14).

So of what is sinful Adam the pattern for the righteous Christ?
The imputation of (the first) Adam's sin is the pattern for the imputation of (the second Adam) Christ's righteousness (Ro 4:1-11).
"JUST AS the many were made sinners, SO ALSO the many will be made righteous." (Ro 5:19)

 

[GodsGrace101]

What’s your point here? What do you think Romans 5:12-15 is saying?

We are not imputed with anyone's sin.
We are only responsible for our own.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Ha! Is your passage better than mine? Do the two disagree with each other? Are they mutually exclusive? Does Scripture contradict itself?Numbers 14:18
‘The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.’

God is punishing YOU for the sins of your father?

So I guess you better hurry and confess all your father's sins...and HIS father's...etc

 

[Mark Quayle]

God is punishing YOU for the sins of your father?

So I guess you better hurry and confess all your father's sins...and HIS father's...etc

So you do disagree with the word of God, as expressed here in the Bible?

Numbers 14:18
‘The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.’

 

[GodsGrace101]

So you do disagree with the word of God, as expressed here in the Bible?

Numbers 14:18
‘The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.’

Try to find out what that means.
I'm not here to teach anyone.

We are only responsible for our own sins.
Have you asked forgiveness for your father's yet.

Do you realize that scripture has to make sense?

 

[Clare73]

What’s your point here?

My point is that, contrary to your assertion, sin is imputed to us, per Ro 5:12-15.

What do you think Romans 5:12-15 is saying?

Good question. . .Paul is demonstrating that since,
where there is no law there is no sin, yet
all those born of Adam between Adam and Moses, when there was no law to sin against,
died anyway. . .it was because the sin of Adam was imputed to them (they were made sinners, Ro 5:19)
and which Ro 5:14 states is the pattern of Christ. . .
of Christ's righteousness likewise being imputed (they were made righteous) to all those born of Christ (Ro 4:1-11, Ro 5:19).

Ro 5:19 parallels the contrasting imputations of both sin and righteousness.

 

[John Mullally]

Good Day, John

1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for (1) all men; (1.a)For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

All men (1) is defined by these types in the context (1.a) one does not have to look outside the book clearly I did not.


Lets for the sake of augment say that “all Men/ all ” in this context should be defined as you believe every single person ever created. I do not thing the text supports it but let’s posit that.

So does Christ mediate on behalf of all men (every single person ever created) before the throne of God. Would you agree with this understanding of a mediator?

Thayer Definition:

1) one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant

2) a medium of communication, arbitrator

Part of Speech: noun masculine

Is he always (with out fail) successful in His role as mediator on behalf of everyone everywhere all (men) people?


And he gave Himself as a ransom for All (men- every single person ever created)

Thayer Definition:

1) what is given in exchange for another as the price of his redemption, ransom

Part of Speech: noun neuter

As to redeem all (every single person ever created) ?

Was the payment to ransom and redeem (every single person) unacceptable and insufficient , or is the payment made and it redeems/ ramsoms every single person created?

In Him,

Bill

Concerning did Christ pay the ransom for all men? I say yes (see also 1 John 2:2 and 2 Peter 2:1). Many do not benefit from it as it is received through faith (Hebrews 4:1-2). Mark 16:16 also shows redemption offered to all and received only by those who believe.

Paul's letters to Timothy were written to a man he travelled with and was investing time in. He is writing to someone who he trusts and who trusts him, and so he uses plain language. The letter is purely instructive and He is being as straightforward as possible. If you are trying to find hidden meanings in the letters to Timothy, you going about it wrong. When Paul says "all men" in 1 Timothy 2:1-6, he is not alluding to "some men". Paul tell Timothy to pray fro all men in 1 Timothy 2:1. And then in 1 Timothy 2:2-6 he states why he is to pray for all men. Verse 2 shows the benefit of praying for those in authority - so there will be peace. Other reasons given for praying for all men is because God desires all to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (v4), and because Christ paid the ransom for all men (v6). Even though Christ paid the ransom, the ransom is only received through faith - so we can pray that men come to understand that in put their faith in Christ.

The letters to Timothy are much different than those to Romans, Corinthians, and Galatians - those letters are more challenging to understand because of context. In Romans he is trying to convince those who are not necessarily on his side - in that letter he frequently takes up two sides of an argument to make points using the OT. In Galatians, he is correcting serious error and uses sarcasm. In Corinthians, he also gives much correction and also uses sarcasm.

 

[zoidar]

Consider the notion that God decreeing it IS him knowing it, i.e. that they are one and the same thing for him.

You seem to think that God's decree is like a king making an announcement to his subjects, us. Not so. It is him speaking a fact into existence.

Don't know about your king analogy. I think God needs to foreknow our libertarian free will choices to make His decrees come to pass. I think He is using foreknowlege to decree things.

And no, God doesn't need to look into the future to know our libertarian free will choices.