Why a Christian in Texas is Voting for Beto

[ViaCrucis]

If you are like me who believes every scripture is inspiration of God then it doesn't matter what was the understanding of "when the life begins" back then and today. God knew life begins in the womb. But out of 613 laws, not a single one is about Abortion. God gave them laws like " woman shouldn't wear man's cloth" , "Not to shave your head in the morning" , yet HE didn't think to include "law against abortion" . History shows abortion was commonly practiced by Egyptian, not sure if Israelites practiced it or not, but Bible is completely silent about abortion. The law even include that if I hit a pregnant woman and she loose her baby, I will be punished. But Bible is completely silent about abortion.
I am pro-life. I believe life begins at conception and I believe abortion is sin. But I also believe abortion is sin just like any other sins in Bible; fornication, idolatry, greed , lust, pride. Unfortunately today some Christians sums up entire Christianity to one word "pro-life" and the definition of "pro-life" is limited to unborn baby.

That's what politics does when we allow ourselves to become consumed with partisanship and tribal identities. Neither side of the political aisle is godly, neither side of the political aisle is completely guiltless either. God's concerns, as laid out in Scripture, is sufficient to show that no matter whether one is "left" or "right", there is still sin.

Using Lutheran language of the distinction of Law and Gospel, both sides are big on Law. While the talking points are different, both sides are speaking from a perspective of good and evil, right and wrong, and thus condemning the other of sin. The problem is that when you are always pointing to the other person as sinning, you forget the great big plank in your own eye. For Lutherans, even in our own theological confessional writings, we are called to remember that the Law's purpose is to act like a mirror, it is held up to us and we see the reflection of ourselves in it--and it's not good. What is reflected back is our unrighteousness, our sin, all the ways we fail to do what we ought and all the ways we do what we shouldn't ("The good that I want to do I don't do, and the evil I don't want to do I do" as Paul says in Romans 7). We see in the Law the wrath and judgment of God against all unrighteousness. So, Paul says, no one can be righteous before God by works of the Law.

And, that's the second thing: What both sides fundamentally lack, most of the time, is grace. The other person is a dirty rotten sinner, but I am righteous (the hypocrisy Jesus regularly condemns in the Gospels); and because we aren't recognizing ourselves as the sinner who needs mercy, ("Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner") through repentance, we also aren't treasuring the grace of God which is in the Gospel, for us sinners, and for our neighbor who is also a sinner. We, therefore, are as Christians, failing to preach the word: We are failing to preach the Law properly because we are trying to use the Law to be righteous before God rather than to recognize our own wretched sinfulness and need for grace; and we are failing to preach the Gospel because we are not confessing the love, kindness, and mercy of God which is for all sinners in Jesus Christ who gave His life for all.

Thus the Church, in becoming a vehicle of the political, fails to be the vehicle of God's word, the instrument and Body of Jesus Christ, whose chief and first love is Him, and who is called by Him to be present among the nations, abiding in His word, speaking truth and love.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ed Parenteau]

I can’t make equivalent argument of Abortion vs other Biblical teaching because Bible is completely silent about Abortion. Although the practice of abortion started 1500 years before Jesus came to the world, yet Bible is completely silent about Abortion. Jesus was completely silent about abortion. Jesus spent his entire time talking about “ love your enemy” and “ give all you have to the poor” , but for a single time he didn’t say anything about abortion. and As a matter of fact abortion was commonly practiced in Roman times yet, early Christian never talked about abortion. Early Christians talked about adultery, fornication, idolatry or even what kind of meat can be eaten, but they never talked about abortion. Only in past 50 years some Christians found new doctrine call “pro-life” .

Here are the verse I find in the Bible - “feed the hungry, give water to thirsty, give shelter to stranger, clothed the naked, look after the sick, visit those who are in prison. (Matt 25) , take care the widow ( Acts 6), give justice to the weak and fatherless ( Psalm 82) , take care immigrants ( Deut 10:19 / Psalm 146)

I don't know who told you that about abortion, but they didn't know what they were talking about.
The principle of abortion is clearly stated here.
Exodus 21:22If men who are fighting strike a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely, but there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband demands and as the court allows. 23But if a serious injury results, then you must require a life for a life— 24eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25burn for burn, wound for wound, and stripe for stripe.
There's no distinction between the woman and her child. And notice that this would be negligent homicide, not premeditated.

Here's a few from the early church fathers.
THE DIDACHE
“The second commandment of the teaching: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not seduce boys. You shall not commit fornication. You shall not steal. You shall not practice magic. You shall not use potions. You shall not procure [an] abortion, nor destroy a newborn child” (Didache 2:1–2 [A.D. 70]).
THE LETTER OF BARNABAS
“The way of light, then, is as follows. If anyone desires to travel to the appointed place, he must be zealous in his works. The knowledge, therefore, which is given to us for the purpose of walking in this way, is the following. . . . Thou shalt not slay the child by procuring abortion; nor, again, shalt thou destroy it after it is born” (Letter of Barnabas 19 [A.D. 74]).
THE APOCALYPSE OF PETER
“And near that place I saw another strait place . . . and there sat women. . . . And over against them many children who were born to them out of due time sat crying. And there came forth from them rays of fire and smote the women in the eyes. And these were the accursed who conceived and caused abortion” (The Apocalypse of Peter 25 [A.D. 137]).

Here's what Chrysostom said in part in Homilies 24
Where there is murder before the birth? For even the harlot thou dost not let continue a mere harlot, but makest her a murderess also. You see how drunkenness leads to whoredom, whoredom to adultery, adultery to murder; or rather to a something even worse than murder. For I have no name to give it, since it does not take off the thing born, but prevent its being born. Why then do you abuse the gift of God, and fight with His laws, and follow after what is a curse as if a blessing, and make the chamber of procreation a chamber for murder, and arm the woman that was given for childbearing unto slaughter?

Scribonius Largus, a first century Roman, claimed that the prohibition against abortion was an injunction not to do harm. He argued that killing an embryo, with its unfulfilled promise of becoming a person, was worse than murder.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

As a matter of fact abortion was commonly practiced in Roman times yet, early Christian never talked about abortion. Early Christians talked about adultery, fornication, idolatry or even what kind of meat can be eaten, but they never talked about abortion. Only in past 50 years some Christians found new doctrine call “pro-life” .

Did you not say this?

Ok, it's so plain to me that the principal of taking the life of a child in the womb requires the taking of a life, but not to you. Fine. Just because Jesus didn't mention murder by abortion doesn't mean it's not murder. He didn't mention hardly any kinds of murder. The taking of a human life is murder no matter how it's done. God knew us before the foundation of the world and formed us in our mother's womb. So by what right do you have to take that life?

 

[AJHnh]

I live in Texas and I voted Beto O'Rourke. You may be wondering how a Christian can vote for him.

First, let me tell you that I prayed for God's guidance, and the answer I received is that we as Christians should pray for, teach, mentor, and comfort those who are hurting and facing difficult choices, not try to wrest control from them. I'm not voting for abortion, I'm voting for women to be able to exercise the free will that God gave us all. I'm voting, knowing that we have a two party system and there will be limits set on that freedom. Just as Abbot has been limited by the democrats in congress, so will Beto be limited by the Republicans.


I also voted for Beto because, although I do believe he and the Democratic Party are too extreme, I also believe Abbot and the Republicans are also too extreme and it's time we leaned more towards giving those who were not born into middle and upper class families a better chance to work, to learn, and to succeed. I also know there will be caring Christians and people of other faiths who will work to help women and families find their way, as well as Doctors and other medical staff that will advise them as well, so they can make informed decisions.


Will the right choices always be made? No, but has that ever been the case? We were given free will and taking away someone's right to choose teaches them nothing. Learning from mistakes, and sharing what you’ve learned from those mistakes, does.


If you're truly faith-driven, rather than responding to the panic inciting rhetoric of politicians and the media, let us pray for those who are faced with such choices! Let us pray for politicians, and doctors! Let us pray for young men and women who are irresponsibly using sex as a cheap substitute for love and marriage. Let us pray for those who are victims of rape and incest, and also pray for those who are evil, disturbed, and closed off from God that would want to or have committed rape or other such evil acts.

Rather than fighting so hard to prevent abortion, which is just a symptom of our societal ills, let us rather focus on the true illness: a world where we have raised our children to be undisciplined, selfish, and overly emotional tyrants who are addicted to cheap thrills and instant gratification.

Have you listened to popular music? Have you heard how vulgar, how lewd it is? Have you done a simple search, mentioning just one key word like sex or a body part, and seen how many porn videos come up? It's shocking easily, too easy, and the only thing stopping young, impressionable children from seeing what they shouldn't is a simple check box that you click on to assert that you are "at least 18 years of age."

Let us fight to ban the easy access to porn, and to set standards for music and video. Let us volunteer and mentor young people who don't have strong father or mother figures in their lives. Let us teach our children respect and obedience, and not fall prey to the mindsets and beliefs that are displayed in popular culture, reality television, and the media. Instead let us teach them that happiness does not come from getting your way all the time, but rather from self-discipline, good work, mutual respect, and service to God and others.

So my fellow Christians, let us humbly pray for guidance, and pray for discernment. Pray for God to guide you and then give you the strength and faith to believe, to listen, and do God's will in this world and in your life. Vote and live as God calls you to live. Vote for your children and for our world and let no one dissuade you. Not even me!

So, you wrote multiple paragraphs and you could have just written I support the man who supports abortion-

 

[AJHnh]

Yes, I did say “Early Christian” . Unless someone is Orthodox Christian, early Christian is usually refer to “book of Acts” and Paul’s writing, not “the Letter of Barnabas”.

As I said Bible is Silent about Abortion.

Without going back and forth about how much emphasize Bible put on abortion, if you see my earlier post ( Post #43) , you will see I am a pro-life and I believe life begins at conception and abortion is sin. However “ Sin of Abortion” is same as other sin like Lust, Greed, Pride or any other sins. But some Christians in the West take the “ Sin of Abortion” completely different level and want to ban this sin. you can’t ban sin and create Christian society, you can’t come up with law against “Lust” or “Pride”.

I see you emphasize on the word “Murder”. Well do you believe in death penalty? I don’t. You can’t be pro-life and support death penalty.

Bible is silent on Abortion? Are you ready a Disney version?

 

[AJHnh]

Bible is silent on Abortion? Are you ready a Disney version?

One more thing, I am not looking to “ Ban this sin” I am interested in saving a child’s life, the one God knew in the womb.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Yes, I did say “Early Christian” . Unless someone is Orthodox Christian, early Christian is usually refer to “book of Acts” and Paul’s writing, not “the Letter of Barnabas”.

As I said Bible is Silent about Abortion.

Without going back and forth about how much emphasize Bible put on abortion, if you see my earlier post ( Post #43) , you will see I am a pro-life and I believe life begins at conception and abortion is sin. However “ Sin of Abortion” is same as other sin like Lust, Greed, Pride or any other sins. But some Christians in the West take the “ Sin of Abortion” completely different level and want to ban this sin. you can’t ban sin and create Christian society, you can’t come up with law against “Lust” or “Pride”.

I see you emphasize on the word “Murder”. Well do you believe in death penalty? I don’t. You can’t be pro-life and support death penalty.

I see you emphasize on the word “Murder”. Well do you believe in death penalty? I don’t. You can’t be pro-life and support death penalty.

Your saying that if I want the innocent person to live, I can't be for the death penalty for the guilty murderer. That's a complete contradiction of scripture. Genesis 9:6Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man his blood will be shed; for in His own image God has made mankind.
God doesn't say "unless you want the innocent man to live".

As I said Bible is Silent about Abortion.

It's silent on snuff films also, so what's your point?

Sin of Abortion” is same as other sin like Lust, Greed, Pride or any other sins. But some Christians in the West take the “ Sin of Abortion” completely different level and want to ban this sin. you can’t ban sin and create Christian society, you can’t come up with law against “Lust” or “Pride”.

Only the Democrat party is banning thought in this country, I am only for laws based on actual crimes. Abortion is not a thought it's an action derived from an evil thought like rape is an action derived from lust or even pride. You certainly can't be saying as Christian that there shouldn't be any laws against evil actions? We are not to let our light be hidden under a bushel. We are to be salt and light.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Bible is silent on Abortion? Are you ready a Disney version?

Scripture itself doesn't specifically address abortion. But the Church has historically always opposed abortion on the basis of biblical principles of human life and dignity.

That doesn't mean one can't make a biblical argument against abortion, it only means that it is not explicitly addressed.

Noting that abortion is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible is not the same thing as saying abortion is okay.

But I would also offer the position that, biblically, Christian social concerns encompass a wide array of issues that cannot be neatly divided into the modern left-right dynamic of modern western politics. Can one, for example, make the Christian argument that the life of the pre-born child is more important than the life of the post-born child? I don't think so. And, indeed, we can see this in the earlier quoted Didache and Epistle of Barnabas. One thing early Christians were known for was rescuing unwanted children who were abandoned to the elements. And we see the biblical concern God has, time and again, with the welfare of the orphan, the widow, the poor, the hungry, the stranger, and all the needy.

All things taken together, one can find positions in just about any major party which Christians can agree with and which Christians can't agree with.

The right probably does have a valid criticism of the left in not being concerned with certain ethical and social issues. and the left probably does have a valid criticism of the right in not being concerned with certain ethical and social issues.

What is the Christian to do? Do we pick sides? I think we've seen what that looks like, and it doesn't look good.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BNR32FAN]

I live in Texas and I voted Beto O'Rourke. You may be wondering how a Christian can vote for him.

First, let me tell you that I prayed for God's guidance, and the answer I received is that we as Christians should pray for, teach, mentor, and comfort those who are hurting and facing difficult choices, not try to wrest control from them. I'm not voting for abortion, I'm voting for women to be able to exercise the free will that God gave us all. I'm voting, knowing that we have a two party system and there will be limits set on that freedom. Just as Abbot has been limited by the democrats in congress, so will Beto be limited by the Republicans.


I also voted for Beto because, although I do believe he and the Democratic Party are too extreme, I also believe Abbot and the Republicans are also too extreme and it's time we leaned more towards giving those who were not born into middle and upper class families a better chance to work, to learn, and to succeed. I also know there will be caring Christians and people of other faiths who will work to help women and families find their way, as well as Doctors and other medical staff that will advise them as well, so they can make informed decisions.


Will the right choices always be made? No, but has that ever been the case? We were given free will and taking away someone's right to choose teaches them nothing. Learning from mistakes, and sharing what you’ve learned from those mistakes, does.


If you're truly faith-driven, rather than responding to the panic inciting rhetoric of politicians and the media, let us pray for those who are faced with such choices! Let us pray for politicians, and doctors! Let us pray for young men and women who are irresponsibly using sex as a cheap substitute for love and marriage. Let us pray for those who are victims of rape and incest, and also pray for those who are evil, disturbed, and closed off from God that would want to or have committed rape or other such evil acts.

Rather than fighting so hard to prevent abortion, which is just a symptom of our societal ills, let us rather focus on the true illness: a world where we have raised our children to be undisciplined, selfish, and overly emotional tyrants who are addicted to cheap thrills and instant gratification.

Have you listened to popular music? Have you heard how vulgar, how lewd it is? Have you done a simple search, mentioning just one key word like sex or a body part, and seen how many porn videos come up? It's shocking easily, too easy, and the only thing stopping young, impressionable children from seeing what they shouldn't is a simple check box that you click on to assert that you are "at least 18 years of age."

Let us fight to ban the easy access to porn, and to set standards for music and video. Let us volunteer and mentor young people who don't have strong father or mother figures in their lives. Let us teach our children respect and obedience, and not fall prey to the mindsets and beliefs that are displayed in popular culture, reality television, and the media. Instead let us teach them that happiness does not come from getting your way all the time, but rather from self-discipline, good work, mutual respect, and service to God and others.

So my fellow Christians, let us humbly pray for guidance, and pray for discernment. Pray for God to guide you and then give you the strength and faith to believe, to listen, and do God's will in this world and in your life. Vote and live as God calls you to live. Vote for your children and for our world and let no one dissuade you. Not even me!

Just my opinion but I choose to stand up for the innocent who cannot stand up for themselves. The liberals point out how rape victims and children who were impregnated too young of age shouldn’t be forced to endure child birth but what they don’t want you to know is that that accounts for less than 1% of abortions. The other 99% are due to engaging in irresponsible intercourse.

 

[HARK!]

U.S. election 2022: Live results and maps

Not even close. Beto lost yet again. Even if the Libertarians jumped on board with him (they won't) ; he still would have lost. I think that he would do well to get out of politics, and pursue another line of work.

 

[Ray Glenn]

The best observation concerning Beto and Abrahms .......

Waste of Donors money in both races .....Beto and Stacy make far money in the build up to their campaigns ....to actually take the job. They really don't want the job ...Leaders, GOOD Leaders are hard to find ....There are far more frauds than there are GOOD Leaders ...

 

[Postvieww]

Reading posts where professing Christians defend abortion is not so much commentary on how politicians have let us down it is more of a commentary on how many church leaders gave failed to do their job in teaching God’s word. Twisting God’s word to to support evil ideology is the problem.
Isaiah 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and goodevil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

 

[Postvieww]

You want to save child's life , there are many poor child in America who goes to bed without food, shelter or adequate health care, you can support paid maternity leave, you can support social welfare program for poor family, you can support universal health care, you can support universal education. You want to save child’s life , there are many child walking 3000 mills to come to US from South America, you can support comprehensive immigration reform to give those children legal status. You want to save child’s life , you can support more US Foreign Aid to poor nations around the world.

This might have been a thoughtful caring for humanity list if had included helpless life in the womb .

 

[Postvieww]

Oh again the unborn. Unless we include unborn everything else doesn’t matter.
I wonder how many times Bible talks about “ taking care the poor or orphan” vs unborn?

Anyone who believes the unborn are insignificant to God should re-examine their belief system!

 

[Postvieww]

As I said earlier , some Christians in the West sums up entire Christianity to one word “ Pro-life”.

Not true. Christianity is not summed up in one word. Neither should a Christian ignore or promote the murder of babies.

 

[Fantine]

My instinct is that the Texas vote was more anti-immigrant than pro-life, or more accurately, pro preborn life.
I have sat on the sidelines and in your by state and been horrified at the rampant hatred of immigrants. I hear all of this propaganda about open borders when in fact President Biden has turned away many more immigrants than President Trump. I hear so many lies about the immigrants bringing in drugs and crime. Sad to say. Around here, not too far away, most of the meth is being cooked up by people who are stuck in dying little rural towns with no future.
On the other hand, when it comes to construction, roofing, and most of the trades if you need help ask Hispanic person. They are ambitious and hard-working. I respect the Hispanic people I know in my community.

 

[Kees Boer]

I live in Texas and I voted Beto O'Rourke. You may be wondering how a Christian can vote for him.

First, let me tell you that I prayed for God's guidance, and the answer I received is that we as Christians should pray for, teach, mentor, and comfort those who are hurting and facing difficult choices, not try to wrest control from them. I'm not voting for abortion, I'm voting for women to be able to exercise the free will that God gave us all. I'm voting, knowing that we have a two party system and there will be limits set on that freedom. Just as Abbot has been limited by the democrats in congress, so will Beto be limited by the Republicans.


I also voted for Beto because, although I do believe he and the Democratic Party are too extreme, I also believe Abbot and the Republicans are also too extreme and it's time we leaned more towards giving those who were not born into middle and upper class families a better chance to work, to learn, and to succeed. I also know there will be caring Christians and people of other faiths who will work to help women and families find their way, as well as Doctors and other medical staff that will advise them as well, so they can make informed decisions.


Will the right choices always be made? No, but has that ever been the case? We were given free will and taking away someone's right to choose teaches them nothing. Learning from mistakes, and sharing what you’ve learned from those mistakes, does.


If you're truly faith-driven, rather than responding to the panic inciting rhetoric of politicians and the media, let us pray for those who are faced with such choices! Let us pray for politicians, and doctors! Let us pray for young men and women who are irresponsibly using sex as a cheap substitute for love and marriage. Let us pray for those who are victims of rape and incest, and also pray for those who are evil, disturbed, and closed off from God that would want to or have committed rape or other such evil acts.

Rather than fighting so hard to prevent abortion, which is just a symptom of our societal ills, let us rather focus on the true illness: a world where we have raised our children to be undisciplined, selfish, and overly emotional tyrants who are addicted to cheap thrills and instant gratification.

Have you listened to popular music? Have you heard how vulgar, how lewd it is? Have you done a simple search, mentioning just one key word like sex or a body part, and seen how many porn videos come up? It's shocking easily, too easy, and the only thing stopping young, impressionable children from seeing what they shouldn't is a simple check box that you click on to assert that you are "at least 18 years of age."

Let us fight to ban the easy access to porn, and to set standards for music and video. Let us volunteer and mentor young people who don't have strong father or mother figures in their lives. Let us teach our children respect and obedience, and not fall prey to the mindsets and beliefs that are displayed in popular culture, reality television, and the media. Instead let us teach them that happiness does not come from getting your way all the time, but rather from self-discipline, good work, mutual respect, and service to God and others.

So my fellow Christians, let us humbly pray for guidance, and pray for discernment. Pray for God to guide you and then give you the strength and faith to believe, to listen, and do God's will in this world and in your life. Vote and live as God calls you to live. Vote for your children and for our world and let no one dissuade you. Not even me!

It looks like you have a great heart. I live in a communist country... communists/socialists always promise the poor. But the fact of the matter is that they really use the poor to get votes, then they turn those votes around and use them to make a ton of money, commit crimes, and abuse the very poor that voted for them. For instance, when fidel castro died, he had $900,000,000 in his bank account. Here the main thing the communist focus on is pedofilia and cocaine trafficking.
P.S. Sorry for my security, I'm not going to reveal where I'm writing from. But be very careful. They can be very deceitful.

 

[JacksBratt]

My instinct is that the Texas vote was more anti-immigrant than pro-life, or more accurately, pro preborn life.
I have sat on the sidelines and in your by state and been horrified at the rampant hatred of immigrants. I hear all of this propaganda about open borders when in fact President Biden has turned away many more immigrants than President Trump. I hear so many lies about the immigrants bringing in drugs and crime. Sad to say. Around here, not too far away, most of the meth is being cooked up by people who are stuck in dying little rural towns with no future.
On the other hand, when it comes to construction, roofing, and most of the trades if you need help ask Hispanic person. They are ambitious and hard-working. I respect the Hispanic people I know in my community.

I don't think that the majority of people think that immigration is wrong.. or that "immigrants" are bad.

Personally, I think that most countries, even Canada, depend on immigration. This is to fill voids in certain career paths. That could be doctors, masons, laborers... all classes of careers.

Immigration is a good thing and strengthens your country.

However, opening a border and letting people flow in at will.. not good.

There are reasons that there are job interviews, try outs for sport teams, exams in school and certificates for qualifications in the trades.

There are also reasons for immigration policies and procedures.

It is vastly important to monitor the population of a country and the character of the people that you allow to join that population.

In my personal opinion, I believe that Biden and the Democrats created an influx of unprocessed and otherwise illegal entry into the country... with the plan of giving these non citizens the right to vote.. in hopes that they would surely vote for the party that allowed them to come to the land of opportunity.. and keep the democrats in power.

The best laid plans they say........

 

[AJHnh]

Scripture itself doesn't specifically address abortion. But the Church has historically always opposed abortion on the basis of biblical principles of human life and dignity.

That doesn't mean one can't make a biblical argument against abortion, it only means that it is not explicitly addressed.

Noting that abortion is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible is not the same thing as saying abortion is okay.

But I would also offer the position that, biblically, Christian social concerns encompass a wide array of issues that cannot be neatly divided into the modern left-right dynamic of modern western politics. Can one, for example, make the Christian argument that the life of the pre-born child is more important than the life of the post-born child? I don't think so. And, indeed, we can see this in the earlier quoted Didache and Epistle of Barnabas. One thing early Christians were known for was rescuing unwanted children who were abandoned to the elements. And we see the biblical concern God has, time and again, with the welfare of the orphan, the widow, the poor, the hungry, the stranger, and all the needy.

All things taken together, one can find positions in just about any major party which Christians can agree with and which Christians can't agree with.

The right probably does have a valid criticism of the left in not being concerned with certain ethical and social issues. and the left probably does have a valid criticism of the right in not being concerned with certain ethical and social issues.

What is the Christian to do? Do we pick sides? I think we've seen what that looks like, and it doesn't look good.

-CryptoLutheran

You knit me together in my mother's womb" ( Psalm 139:13 NIV)- there is no biblical view point in either support of, or circumstance that allow abortion-none nada—-does not mean churches don’t gyrate themselves into position to claim it does-

 

[chevyontheriver]

Scripture itself doesn't specifically address abortion. But the Church has historically always opposed abortion on the basis of biblical principles of human life and dignity.

That doesn't mean one can't make a biblical argument against abortion, it only means that it is not explicitly addressed.

Noting that abortion is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible is not the same thing as saying abortion is okay.

But I would also offer the position that, biblically, Christian social concerns encompass a wide array of issues that cannot be neatly divided into the modern left-right dynamic of modern western politics. Can one, for example, make the Christian argument that the life of the pre-born child is more important than the life of the post-born child? I don't think so. And, indeed, we can see this in the earlier quoted Didache and Epistle of Barnabas. One thing early Christians were known for was rescuing unwanted children who were abandoned to the elements. And we see the biblical concern God has, time and again, with the welfare of the orphan, the widow, the poor, the hungry, the stranger, and all the needy.

All things taken together, one can find positions in just about any major party which Christians can agree with and which Christians can't agree with.

The right probably does have a valid criticism of the left in not being concerned with certain ethical and social issues. and the left probably does have a valid criticism of the right in not being concerned with certain ethical and social issues.

What is the Christian to do? Do we pick sides? I think we've seen what that looks like, and it doesn't look good.

-CryptoLutheran

I say we dump the Big Party of the Left and dump the Big Party of the Right and try for something better. These two particular Big Parties are failing us. And we are failing ourselves in the process. Any party that says to act justly (and be against Trump) you have to be OK with killing babies is a crock. Any party that says Trump is the messiah is a crock. We vote for one of these parties to stop the other one. We shouldn't be wasting our vote on either party. Dump 'em. Start over. If we do dump them maybe for a few years the new parties won't be abysmal. And then they will.


There is no salvation in politics. We pretend that there is salvation in one of these parties or the other one. It's idolatry. Burn the idols.