Is the Book of Revelation the only place in Scripture teaching eternal torment?

[P1LGR1M]

Matthew 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in Heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the (ἀπολωλότα) Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.

That it is not God's will that men perish, hence He has always provided a means by which men can be saved.

And the problem with your implication that all will be saved is that it simply doesn't agree with the teachings of Christ:


John 10:24-29
King James Version

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


John 3:36
King James Version

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


If your doctrine is in conflict with even a little bit of the Word of God it is time to figure out where you went wrong and seek to reconcile your teaching to the Word of God.

Isaiah 11:12 And He shall lift up a standard for the nations, and He shall gather the (απολομένους) lost ones of Israel, and He shall gather the (διεσπαρμένους) dispersed of Juda from the four corners of the earth.LXX

Gen 18:24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?

We know the answer to this question: there weren't even ten who were righteous.

God destroyed the city, and we see the differing degrees of punishement of these who were destroyed yet went not out of existence:


Matthew 10:15
Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.


Exo 10:7 And Pharaoh's servants said unto him, How long shall this man be a snare unto us? let the men go, that they may serve the LORD their God: knowest thou not yet that Egypt is destroyed?


How was Egypt destroyed?

Isaiah 27:13 And it shall come to pass in that day that they shall blow the great trumpet, and the ones (απολόμενοι) being lost in the land of the Assyrians shall come, and the ones (απολόμενοι) being lost in Egypt, and shall worship the Lord on the holy mountain in Jerusalem.LXX

And as already shown, only the sheep will be gathered:


Isa 13:9
Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.


Matthew 25:31-33
King James Version

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Unclean spirits and demons were in people.

Not in the passage that describes Abaddon:


Revelation 9
King James Version

1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.


Where do you see demon possession in this?


Revelation 9:11-12
King James Version

11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.


I see men tormented and wanting to die, but no possession by the unclean spirits or their king, a failed angel.

Demons are not failed-angels.

In point of fact they are, and they will go into everlasting torment just like the Lost will.

Here is an Angel that is not failed:


Revelation 20:1-3
King James Version

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The dragon comes to earth with his angels, as the 3rd woe, in Revelation 12.

And that has nothing to do with the First Woe:


Revelation 9:11-12
King James Version

11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.



Revelation 11:14
King James Version

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.


If we follow the Timeline of Events God has given us in His Word it makes understanding the Prophecy so much easier.

The Third Woe is the Third Judgment: the Bowl Judgments.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

God's armies destroy the murderers, Matthew 22:7 (Matthew 21:33-45).

And what has this to do with Abaddon, the king over the army that torments men on the earth in the Tribulation?

The Lamb's sword, Revelation 2:16 and Revelation 19:11-16, is not steel.

I agree, it is the Word of God.

Again, I don't see how this has anything to do with Abaddon.

Matthew 24:20-22 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day.[21] For then shall be Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. ( = the elect are there)

Again, no relevance to Abaddon.

This speaks of the Abomination which maketh Desolate.

And this takes place at the Mid-Point of the Tribulation.

And believing Jews are told when they see the Abomination of Desolation they should flee to the mountains, which is what many (but not all) will do.

That those who believe are of the Elect is an obvious truth.

You should also take note that the Elect are contrasted with those who will be destroyed. There will be "flesh" that will not be saved.

Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed [is] he that watcheth and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.

And what happens when He comes as a thief (suddenly and without warning)?


1 Thessalonians 5
King James Version

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.


Let's look at that last statement again:


4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.


Why? Because the Body of Christ will have already been raptured. We need to but to back up one chapter to find Paul's teaching on that.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Whew... the 12 aren't called Apostles...

Create false arguments much?

Where did I say the "twelve" Apostles? I said Christ and the Apostles.

That there are twelve is true, and that they are called apostles is true, which makes your statement error:

Mat 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles G652 are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;


Luk 6:13
And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles; G652


Luk 22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles G652 with him.


Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles G652 of the Lamb.




There's a link in the first verse for twelve, in case your interested.

not by themselves anyway.

Not sure why you would think this significant. If the inspired Writers called them twelve apostles I would think that would be enough to show you that making the statement...

Whew... the 12 aren't called Apostles...

...is an error.

But for the sake of argument, I will say that Paul called himself an Apostle, and I believe Paul's name will be one of the twelve names on the foundations spoken of above.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Because THAT stuff of yours isn't at all what the 12 Disciples were taught.

Of course it was:


Matthew 10:28
King James Version

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


Matthew 25:46
King James Version

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


And as I said, if we simply stick with what God's Word says then we don't go around making comments like...

Whew... the 12 aren't called Apostles...

Or what the Old Testament teaches.

Sure it does:


Daniel 12:1-2
King James Version

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


It won't be the Sheep of the One Fold that holds them in contempt forever, it will be themselves.

Or should we think that we will be contemptuous people in the Eternal State?


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Drink Wine

Matthew 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's Kingdom.

Who will He drink it with?

Only those who are born again:


John 3:3-5
King James Version

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Or do you think men will enter into the Kingdom without being born again?

Touch His Wounds

John 20:27 Then saith He to Thomas, reach hither thy finger and behold my hands, and reach hither thy hand and thrust it into My side, and be not faithless but believing.

Hmm, it seems that the Lord is calling on them to believe.

So how is it that Christ can teach that men must believe and be born again in order to enter into the Kingdom of God yet Universal Salvation denies that?

If you would like to present Scripture that shows everyone will be sheep (believing) which would be a direct refutation of Christ's teaching (John 10:25-26; John 3:36) then I would like for you to present such Scripture.

But you know as well as I do that you can't.

You have to avoid the direct Doctrine of Christ Himself to teach a doctrine that is in conflict with the Doctrine of Christ.

You know it, I know it, and Scripture proves it.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Physical Presence

Revelation 1:10-17 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, ...[14] His head and His hairs were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes were as a flame of fire.[15] And His feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters.[16] And He had in His right hand seven stars: and out of His mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and His countenance was as the sun shineth in His strength.[17] And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me...

Not sure how you think this changes His teachings to the Twelve Apostles.

Or His teaching of everlasting torment and separation from Him.

John was a born-again believer, a sheep. He will never be blotted out of the Book of Life, just as those who overcome (1 John 5:1-5) will never be blotted out (1 John 5:13):


Revelation 3:5
King James Version

5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


Revelation 22:19
King James Version

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Universal Salvation adherents sure don't like to talk about the Book of Life.

Why is that?


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Clothing and Perfume

Psalms 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of Thy Kingdom is a sceptre of righteousness.[7] Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity: therefore God, Thy God, has anointed thee with the oil of gladness beyond Thy fellows.[8] Myrrh and stacte and cassia are exhaled from Thy garments and out of the ivory palaces,[9] with which kings’ daughters have gladdened Thee for Thine honour. The queen stood by on Thy right hand, clothed in vesture wrought with gold, and arrayed in divers colours.[10] Hear, O daughter and see, and incline thine ear: forget also thy people and thy father’s house,[11] because the King has desired thy beauty, for He is thy Lord.[12] And the daughter of Tyre shall adore Him with gifts, the rich of the people of the land shall supplicate thy favour.

Let's put the emphasis on a sobering truth:


Hebrews 1:8-9
King James Version

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.


This inspired Writer will go on to say...


Hebrews 2
King James Version

1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;


"Them that heard Him" is a reference to the Apostles, by the way.


Hebrews 3:7-12
King James Version

7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest)

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.


What exactly does this mean?

And how exactly will the Lost, who reject Jesus Christ through unbelief—enter into God's Rest?

How will they not be blotted out of the Book of Life?

How exactly are any of the quotes you provide support against clear teachings of Christ, the Apostles, the inspired Writers of God's Word, and the Holy Spirit that was in them?


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Visible Wounds

Zechariah 13:6-7 And I will say to Him, What are these wounds between Thine hands? and He shall say, Those with which I was wounded in My beloved house.[7] Awake, O sword, against My shepherds, and against the man who is My citizen, saith the Lord Almighty; smite the shepherds, and draw out the sheep, and I will bring Mine hand upon the (ποιμένας) shepherds.LXX

So think about that: if He smites the shepherds—could we conclude that they aren't of His Sheep?

We know of a certainty that they are not of the Other Sheep.

The Son has a physical body after His Resurrection.

You say this like someone has denied it?

Relevance?

When the Son physically returns we know what is going to happen:


Matthew 25:30-33
King James Version

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.


Not a good idea to be on the left.


41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


We don't need commentary to understand the difference between everlasting life (which the goats will never receive: John 3:36) and everlasting punishment.

The Goats are going into the same punishment created for the devil and his failed angels.

The math is pretty simple: A will always be A, and B will always be B.




God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Are you sure it's God doing that?
What about the angel of the bottomless pit... whose name is Destroyer?

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is (Ἀβαδδών) Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name (Ἀπολλύων) Apollyon. (destroyer)

By the way, a king that is locked away is a failed king.

The bottomless pit is not the Lake of Fire, but a prison for failed demons.


God bless.

 

[Tolworth John]

we know how to avoid going there"

We who?? Does an individual chose to be a child of God or is it God that does the choosing?

This is not relevent to the subject being discussed.

 

[DavidPT]

Essentially, you're arguing that whatever happens to one person in the lake of fire happens to all, "and if it is everlasting for one it is everlasting for all," right?

That's not a strong argument, though. Take for instance, a prison. While the convicted might end up in the same prison, their fates in this prison are not all the same. One person might be sentenced to 5 years there. Another person, 12 years. Another person, 25 years. Another person, life. As to the latter, even though they might get life in prison they are obviously not in prison for forever.

Why would God's idea of justice be different than man's idea of justice? If man's idea of justice was like that of what many assume God's idea of justice is, everyone that is sent to prison, they would receive the same sentence, life. Steal a candy bar, get sentenced to prison, you get life. IOW, the sentence doesn't fit the crime. So where did man's idea of justice come from? It couldn't have come from God if God punishes in the LOF every single lost person in the same manner.

I have had friends when I was growing up who didn't even live to see 16 years. We used to smoke weed together. We drank beer, we cussed, we smoked cigarettes. IOW, typical rebellious teens. Obviously, they didn't die saved. One is to then believe that they deserve the following for having lived less than 16 years where some of those earlier years they would not have reached the age of accountabilty yet----and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever?

What I have to wonder, all of these interpreters in this forum arguing for ECT in regards to lost humans, why are they even in here doing that if they believe this so strongly? What about some of their family members, some of their friends? Wouldn't they be better off spending every moment of the waking day begging their family members and friends to not end up there where they will be tormented day and night for forever, rather than debating this with believers in this forum?

 

[P1LGR1M]

I have had friends when I was growing up who didn't even live to see 16 years. We used to smoke weed together. We drank beer, we cussed, we smoked cigarettes. IOW, typical rebellious teens. Obviously, they didn't die saved. One is to then believe that they deserve the following for having lived less than 16 years where some of those earlier years they would not have reached the age of accountabilty yet----and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever?

Where in Scripture is the "age of accountability" found?

What I have to wonder, all of these interpreters in this forum arguing for ECT in regards to lost humans, why are they even in here doing that if they believe this so strongly? What about some of their family members, some of their friends? Wouldn't they be better off spending every moment of the waking day begging their family members and friends to not end up there where they will be tormented day and night for forever, rather than debating this with believers in this forum?

I can't answer for others, but my answer is this: because most of us know that it is God that saves, and while He may use us in this process we cannot change the hearts of men.

I don't even try to change the minds of men, because someone else can change it back for them.

Men have to come to conclusions for themselves, they cannot be coerced into believing one thing or another.

So some of minister because we feel it is our duty to try to teach sound doctrine where false doctrine is both taught and embraced.

I have family members that have died and I do not know their fate. Some of them led lives that were blatantly in objection to God and His Word.

Nothing I can do about that.

As far as family that is still living I try to minister according to the leading of God and have come to understand that there are different ways of ministering to the lost. For some that means a direct approach. For some it is perhaps gentler.

But it always involves remaining true to the truth I feel God has shown me.

But when it comes to a Doctrinal Discussion and Debate Forum, we are all here to discuss and debate. Why would we need to refrain from engaging in discussion and debate in a public forum?

And let me ask you this, since you seem to think that if people are going into a Christless Eternity they should do nothing but witness to friends and family: are you saying it is not necessary for you to be doing the same thing? The Great Commission is only for the disciples? No need for you to be witnessing to your family because everyone is going to end up saved?

Shouldn't you be "spending every moment of the waking day begging your family members and friends to not end up there where they will be tormented day and night for an undisclosed amount of time?"

But how much time do we see those who teach and embrace universal salvation doing that?

That's right—never.

Why is that? Because there is no bad news?


God bless.

 

[Ligurian]

These are words used to translate apollymi.

Note that Strong's points out a literal or figurative usage. I think most would agree that a figurative usage is seen in the following:


Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost G622 sheep of the house of Israel.


Did the Lord send the disciples out to people that had ceased to exist? Or to people existing in a state of destruction? A state that death pictures: separation (of the body and spirit Separation of man and God, )? To a people that needed to be found, who needed to be reconciled unto God so they were not lost, not in that state of destruction, but found of God?

Mat 18:11
For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. G622


Did He come to save corpses? Those who were no longer existing? Or people that were separated from God?

You really don't understand the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.

The 10-Lost-Tribes are being destroyed by "shepherds", Matthew 23:8-10.

Hosea 4:6 My people are like as if they had no knowledge; because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt not minister as priest to Me; and as thou has forgotten the Law of thy God, I also will forget thy children.

Zechariah 11:7-17 And I will tend the sheep of the slaughter in the [land of the] Canaanites. And I will take for Myself two rods; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called, A piece of measured out land; and I will tend the sheep.[8] And I will lift away the three shepherds in one month; and My soul shall be weighed down over them, for their souls roared against Me.ABP

Jeremiah 27:4-7 In those days, and at that time, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Juda together; they shall proceed, weeping as they go, seeking the Lord their God.[5] They shall ask the way till they come to Sion, for that way shall they set their face; and they shall come and flee for refuge to the Lord their God; for the everlasting covenant shall not be forgotten.[6] My people have been lost sheep: their shepherds thrust them out, they caused them to wander on the mountains: they went from mountain to hill, they forgot their resting-place.[7] All that found them consumed them: their enemies said, Let us not leave them alone, because they have sinned against the Lord: He that gathered their fathers had a pasture of righteousness.LXX

John 10:1-5 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.[2] But He that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.[3] To Him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear His voice: and He calleth His own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.[4] And when He putteth forth His own sheep, He goeth before them, and the sheep follow Him: for they know His voice.[5] And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.KJV

Jeremiah 3:1-3 If a man put away his wife and she depart from him, and become another man’s, shall she return to him any more at all? shall not that woman be utterly defiled? ye thou hast gone a-whoring with many shepherds, and hast returned to Me, saith the Lord.[2] Lift up thine eyes to look straight forward, and see where thou hast not been utterly defiled. Thou hast sat for them by the wayside as a deserted crow, and hast defiled the land with thy fornications and thy wickedness.[3] And thou didst retain many shepherds for a stumbling-block to thyself: thou hadst a harlot’s face, thou didst become shameless toward all.LXX

Those who don't know History are doomed to repeat it.

 

[Ligurian]

Where in Scripture is the "age of accountability" found?

Isaiah 7:14-16 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; behold, a virgin shall conceive in the womb, and shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Emmanuel.[15] Butter and honey shall he eat, before he knows either to prefer evil or choose the good.[16] For before the child shall know good or evil, he refuses evil, to choose the good; and the land shall be forsaken which thou art afraid of because of the two kings.

 

[Ligurian]

That it is not God's will that men perish, hence He has always provided a means by which men can be saved.

And the problem with your implication that all will be saved is that it simply doesn't agree with the teachings of Christ:

"not God's will that men perish" "that all will be saved" = your theory, not mine.

 

[P1LGR1M]

You really don't understand the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.

Sure I do.

It is the same Gospel that Gentiles would receive as well.

There is only One Gospel.

The Gospel of the Kingdom for the House of Israel will eventually be unveiled to them as the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

They will receive a literal physical kingdom on this earth, but that doesn't change the fact the eventual outcome of the "Gospel of the Kingdom for the House of Israel" is the Eternal State where the House of Israel will be part of the One Fold having One Shepherd.

The 10-Lost-Tribes are being destroyed by "shepherds", Matthew 23:8-10.

There are no "lost tribes," that is more mythology:


2 Chronicles 11:11-17
King James Version

11 And he fortified the strong holds, and put captains in them, and store of victual, and of oil and wine.

12 And in every several city he put shields and spears, and made them exceeding strong, having Judah and Benjamin on his side.

13 And the priests and the Levites that were in all Israel resorted to him out of all their coasts.

14 For the Levites left their suburbs and their possession, and came to Judah and Jerusalem: for Jeroboam and his sons had cast them off from executing the priest's office unto the Lord:

15 And he ordained him priests for the high places, and for the devils, and for the calves which he had made.

16 And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the Lord God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the Lord God of their fathers.

17 So they strengthened the kingdom of Judah, and made Rehoboam the son of Solomon strong, three years: for three years they walked in the way of David and Solomon.


The "Ten Lost Tribes" myth is, as far as I am concerned, as racist as it is ridiculous.

The division of the Kingdom did not leave ten tribes disappearing into anonymity.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

The 10-Lost-Tribes are being destroyed by "shepherds", Matthew 23:8-10.

Nonsense.

You understand that God keeps His promises, don't you?


Hebrews 8:7-12
King James Version

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.


Thus it is written:


Romans 11:26
King James Version

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


Go and learn what that meaneth.




Continued...

 

[DavidPT]

Where in Scripture is the "age of accountability" found?

A fact of life is that some infants die as infants, for example. We know that they are not accountable for anything based on the following for one.


Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


What does the text indicate involves every single person here? This---and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. What works could an infant who died as an infant possibly have written in these books? None, as in zero. Therefore, this alone proves no one is held accountable for their actions prior to the age of accountability, whatever age that might be.

When one reaches 15 or so, such as in my examples, they are obviously beyond the age of accountabilty at this point unless they are severely mentally challenged or something, where they don't grasp the simplist of things. And if they die at 15 or so, and die in a lost state rather than a saved state, how is that deserving of being tormented day and night forever and ever? Why was I allowed more years in order to be saved eventually but they weren't? Though they may have been rebellious teens at the time, just like I was, who's to say, had they lived more years, maybe they too would have been saved eventually.

If one argues, well God already knew that had they lived more years, they still would have never been saved, therefore, for them to have died at such a young age doesn't matter since God already knew they weren't going to be saved anyway, even if they had lived more years. So, why doesn't God apply that to everyone He knows will never be saved regardless how many years they get to live? Have them all die at an early age since they are never going to be saved no matter what anyway.

 

[Ligurian]

Other Sheep said: ↑
Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is (Ἀβαδδών) Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name (Ἀπολλύων) Apollyon. (destroyer)

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P1LGR1M said: ↑
A demon in the pit might rule over his minions, and create temporal suffering for men, but that looks to me to be secluded to the Tribulation and the Church of this Age is caught away prior to that event.

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Other Sheep said: ↑
Unclean spirits and demons were in people. Demons are not failed-angels.
The dragon comes to earth with his angels, as the 3rd woe, in Revelation 12.

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P1LGR1M said: ↑
Not in the passage that describes Abaddon:

Revelation 9
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.


Where do you see demon possession in this?
[...]
The Third Woe is the Third Judgment: the Bowl Judgments.

wow...