Why does God allow suffering? Bear in mind, those that don't need a perfect distraction, suffer less

[trophy33]

There are a number of problems.

First, why are you limiting God to your puny human perspective. You're viewing these separate universes as individual creations, in which you can compare one to another to find the best possible example. But perhaps God doesn't see them that way, perhaps to Him they're not separate creations, but one all-encompassing creation.

Why do you limit God to your perspective?

I still do not see any rebuttal. You just ask why, but you do not prove that the one best universe is not possible or is illogical.

If you prefer multiverse in which you exist in infinite number of universes, its on you. I do not think its theologically right, though, so its not my thing.

 

[TedT]

Did God create just one perfect tree, or did He create a forest of various degrees of imperfect trees?

ImCo:
I can't conceive of GOD creating anything imperfect so much that I believe such an idea is a blasphemy.

GOD created every person in HIS image with a free will and an equal ability and opportunity to put their faith HIM as GOD and saviour OR to rebuke HIM as a liar and a false god. No one was created by conception or birth as already evil for any reason by any means.

I believe that to think GOD cannot create evil at the same time one believes HE creates evil people by making them to be created in Adam's sin or propensity to sin or whatever to be a strong case of double think, a willingness to believe opposites are both true at the same time.

The cognitive dissonance created by this unreconciled logic that A is also NOT A at the same time has caused all the millions of pages of so called Christian theology that is basically no better than Christian theo-babble.

Evil can only accrue to the free will choice to rebuke YHWH for claiming to be Divine or, while accepting HIM as GOD, rebelling against HIS command for us by a free will decision.

 

[partinobodycular]

I still do not see any rebuttal. You just ask why, but you do not prove that the one best universe is not logically possible.

Correct, I'm asking you why you're limiting God to a human perspective. He's God. His nature should include everything that ever can or will be. If you're going to put restrictions on God's nature then I want to know why.

 

[TedT]

You're missing the point point. God did not have to choose between a bunch of option. He could decide two make it what ever he wanted.

He did not have to chose between a pre selected choice. With his omnipotence he can do anything. He did not have to chosose from a pre selected set of best/worst. He decides what is bets/worst.

Ahhhh yes,
once again the atheist teaches the Christian the truth about GOD's real nature... Goodbye.

 

[trophy33]

Correct, I'm asking you why you're limiting God to a human perspective. He's God. His nature should include everything that ever can or will be. If you're going to put restrictions on God's nature then I want to know why.

But its not a rebuttal. If you think that your perspective is less human, stick to it, if it works for you.

I do not think I am limiting God to a human perspective, so I cannot answer why I am limiting God to a human perspective.

 

[TedT]

Apart from all the kids born with terminal diseases, obviously.

Being born with disease is the proof they have already chosen to be sinful in HIS sight, pre-conception.

 

[partinobodycular]

I can't conceive of GOD creating anything imperfect...

I have a question.

Do you believe that God's nature includes all that ever can or will be?

Secondly, do you think that there's a difference between those two things?

 

[partinobodycular]

But its not a rebuttal. If you think that your perspective is less human, stick to it, if it works for you.

I'll ask you the same questions that I just asked TedT.

Do you believe that God's nature includes all that ever can or will be?

Secondly, do you think that there's a difference between those two things?

 

[trophy33]

I'll ask you the same questions that I just asked TedT.

Do you believe that God's nature includes all that ever can or will be?

Secondly, do you think that there's a difference between those two things?

I am not sure what you mean by this question.

Did you intent to write "God's mind" instead of God's nature?

 

[TedT]

My first question is...is a world with conscious beings and no suffering actually possible?

Of course - that is the world of the heavenly marriage promised to all who survive the casting of all evil people into the lake of fire by their perfect commitment to never sin again.

 

[TedT]

How does an omnipotent creator avoid creating suffering while at the same time keeping free will?

My answer was posted in #369... which has not been addressed.

 

[TedT]

What makes a universe with no suffering akin to squaring a circle? I keep being told that the universe must suffering but no one can say why.

I have repeatedly said why but you ignore it because you disagree with it, sigh.

 

[partinobodycular]

Creation is not a part of God's nature. Creation is His "work". So I do not understand your question.

Gee, I thought that being 'The Creator' was indeed a part of God's nature. And that His nature and His work are one and the same thing. That what God can do, and what God will do are also one and the same thing. And that God's free will is greater than our free will precisely because what He can do and what He will do are the same thing.

 

[partinobodycular]

Sorry, it's been interesting, but I gotta go.

 

[trophy33]

And that His nature and His work are one and the same thing.

Of course its not the same thing.

My human nature and a mobile phone are not the same things.

 

[Ken-1122]

This is not Christian theology...

GOD can indeed make a no suffering universe but HE cannot fulfill HIS purpose of having a loving marriage relationship with HIS creation without allowing the possibility that evil and therefore that suffering may be created.

Why must his purpose of having a loving relationship require the possibility of evil and suffering?

Love that is forced upon someone by manipulating their psyche cannot be said to be true love.

Just because love is without suffering and evil does not mean it is forced.

 

[timothyu]

Will there be pain and suffering in this Heaven as well?

It is interesting that in the kingdom it is said the evils, pain, suffering etc. here will be forgotten. Forgotten is a reversal of the knowledge gained in the Garden.

 

[Tinker Grey]

It is interesting that in the kingdom it is said the evils, pain, suffering etc. here will be forgotten. Forgotten is a reversal of the knowledge gained in the Garden.

You want to go back to ignorance?

But, I don't recall the Bible saying about reversal of knowledge gained.

 

[timothyu]

You want to go back to ignorance

Go back? We're living it.

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

 

[Larniavc]

Being born with disease is the proof they have already chosen to be sinful in HIS sight, pre-conception.

Kinda makes you wonder why he created people to turn against him. Seems cruel.