Why does God allow suffering? Bear in mind, those that don't need a perfect distraction, suffer less

[trophy33]

Not interested in the one fly less universe. It’s always been this one in it’s current state. I feel that message may not be getting through.

I am not sure what you want to know, then.

 

[Larniavc]

It seems you do not read my posts.

This universe is the best possible universe because it was chosen by perfect God who cannot err.

Then why did he decide he must add suffering when he did not need to?

That’s what people seem unable to explain if God unrestrained.

 

[Larniavc]

I am not sure what you want to know, then.

Fair enough.

 

[trophy33]

Then why did he decide he must add suffering when he did not need to?

Your question does not make any sense. God did not "add" suffering. God "saw" all possible universes and chose the best one.

Its not cooking.

 

[partinobodycular]

This universe is the best possible universe because it was chosen by perfect God who cannot err.

That's just more gibberish. It's the best possible universe because God is perfect, that tells me absolutely nothing about why a universe with one more fly is more perfect than a universe with one less. Because isn't an answer.

This is a perfect illustration of why belief in the Christian God is irrational. People believe all manner of irrational things, just look around you, and yet God is basing the judgment of their eternal souls on their ability to make a rational decision about His existence, and the veracity of some legends about His supposed Son. That's just crazy. People can't be expected to make a rational choice, because people aren't rational.

Your God ain't perfect...He's nuts.

 

[trophy33]

That's just more gibberish. It's the best possible universe because God is perfect, that tells me absolutely nothing about why a universe with one more fly is more perfect than a universe with one less. Because isn't an answer.

This is a perfect illustration of why belief in the Christian God is irrational. People believe all manner of irrational things, just look around you, and yet God is basing the judgment of their eternal souls on their ability to make a rational decision about His existence, and the veracity of some legends about His supposed Son. That's just crazy. People can't be expected to make a rational choice, because people aren't rational.

Your God ain't perfect...He's nuts.

You do not accept general logic, but you want to know details nobody can give you, instead.

If you are not able to absorb infinite combinations of things and events and compare them, then you are not able to know why exactly is this universe better than any other.

 

[partinobodycular]

You do not accept general logic,

You haven't given me any logic...none.

You made a claim...there exists a God and He's perfect.

Where's your logic in that?

 

[trophy33]

You haven't given me any logic...none.

You made a claim...there exists a God and He's perfect.

Where's your logic in that?

The thread is "why does God allow suffering". If you want to talk about the existence of God or whether He is perfect, this is not the place. Its a presupposition, here. Please, pay more attention to the context.

If you do not want to work with it, the question in the title of this thread has no meaning for you.

 

[partinobodycular]

If you are not able to absorb infinite combinations of things and events and compare them, then you are not able to know why exactly is this universe better than any other.

More gibberish.

 

[trophy33]

More gibberish.

I noticed that to be rude is basically your style of argumentation, instead of being thankful that somebody took his time to answer your questions.

 

[partinobodycular]

The thread is "why does God allows suffering". If you want to talk about the existence of God or whether He is perfect, this is not the place. Its a presupposition, here. Please, pay more attention to the context

Well now we're trying to deflect aren't we?

We're perfectly on topic. You're trying to explain why God allows suffering...because He's perfect. Gee we don't need a forum to discuss anything because you've just given us the answer to absolutely every question ever asked about why anything is the way it is...because God is perfect.

And you can't explain any more than that...great.

 

[trophy33]

Well now we're trying to deflect aren't we?

We're perfectly on topic. You're trying to explain why God allows suffering...because He's perfect. Gee we don't need a forum to discuss anything because you've just given us the answer to absolutely every question ever asked about why anything is the way it is...because God is perfect.

And you can't explain any more than that...great.

Its seems you are angry by the fact that Christianity is logically consistent system.

Yes, the Christian belief about God is that He is perfect.

 

[partinobodycular]

I noticed that to be rude is basically your style of argumentation,

It is at the moment, because you're not listening to reason. Thus the only option that I have is to force you to rethink your answer, by fervently refusing to accept BS. I'm being rude by design, because the other options aren't working.

 

[trophy33]

It is at the moment, because you're not listening to reason. Thus the only option that I have is to force you to rethink your answer, by fervently refusing to accept BS. I'm being rude by design, because the other options aren't working.

I do not know why you try to be emotional, but its your struggle. Do you have any other question regarding this thread?

 

[partinobodycular]

Its seems you are angry by the fact that Christianity is logically consistent system.

That's just logically inconsistent on its face. How can a system about which even its own adherents don't agree, possibly claim to be logically consistent?

 

[trophy33]

That's just logically inconsistent on its face. How can a system about which even its own adherents don't agree, possibly claim to be logically consistent?

If one of the adherents has a system that is logical, then your question is not relevant. The claim is not "every individual Christian has good or even same answers to everything".

 

[partinobodycular]

Do you have any other question regarding this thread?

Yes, I do. I posted a rebuttal to your 'one perfect universe' theory back in post #364. You never responded.

I would like a logical response please.

 

[trophy33]

Yes, I do. I posted a rebuttal to your 'one perfect universe' theory back in post #364. You never responded.

I would like a logical response please.

I did not claim that this universe is perfect. I claim its the best possible one. Only God is perfect.

Your post is not a rebuttal, you just presented your ideas about God and about beauty. That you personally prefer a multiverse. If you think its better and logically consistent, you can use it in your personal apologetic activity. I will not attack you or be rude to you because of it.

 

[Ken-1122]

Did God create just one perfect tree, or did He create a forest of various degrees of imperfect trees?

Depending on what you call perfect, he should have made all the trees in the forest perfect.

And excluding His Son did God create just one perfect anything?

He should have created multiple perfect things.

Yet for some reason you think that He would limit Himself to creating just one perfect world.

Yes!

A God that sees the value in the handicapped child and the prodigal son.

I will bet the handicapped child does not see value in him being handicapped! It’s easy to find value in somebody else’s suffering when you are free from suffering yourself.

That's the kind of God that you think would limit Himself to only creating the so-called perfect, and has no time nor tolerance for the imperfect?

Yes! If God is perfect, anything he creates should be as well.

Sorry, but to me a truly perfect God isn't the God who would sacrifice His Son for a perfect world, but rather He's the God who would willfully sacrifice His Son even for an imperfect one.

If God made a perfect world, he would not have had to sacrifice his son because everything would still be perfect.

Beauty isn't found only in perfection, it's found in the struggle to overcome imperfection. And there's no perfect level of suffering, there's just the inspiration to be found in enduring any suffering.

The ability to find beauty in suffering and pain does not justify suffering and pain

And therefore a perfect God wouldn't just create this world, He would create them all. For there's beauty in every single one of them, and maybe, if there really is a heaven, you'll some day get to see the unimaginable breadth of it.

Will there be pain and suffering in this Heaven as well?

 

[partinobodycular]

What is specifically logically wrong about the fact that perfect God would create the best possible universe?

There are a number of problems.

First, why are you limiting God to your puny human perspective. You're viewing these separate universes as individual creations, in which you can compare one to another to find the best possible example. But perhaps God doesn't see them that way, perhaps to Him they're not separate creations, but one all-encompassing creation.

Why do you limit God to your perspective?