Is there an Atheist preference for the Democratic party going on here?

[ViaCrucis]

"In the context of America it also includes belief in American Exceptionalism and Christian Triumphalism."
There's nothing wrong with wanting America to be exceptional.

There is a difference between wanting one's nation of residence to be a just society and belief that one's nation is innately special over and against other nations.

America isn't special. America isn't a nation born of Providence. America isn't a godly nation, and it never has been. America is just another temporal kingdom in a world filled with lots of kingdoms. There is nothing better about being an American than being anything else. America is not the greatest nation, it is not the most free. Having the greatest military and having most of the world's wealth doesn't make is good, or special, or spiritually significant in any way.

I want America to be better, I would love if it could be exceptional in a good way. But at present America is only exceptional in arrogance, spiritual delusion, in worshiping the false gods of Capitalism and Violence, and refusing to ignore her history of injustice--a history that goes back to its founding. And refusing to acknowledge these things is not Christian and godly, it is only prideful and wicked.

"Other examples of rampant heresy include Dominionism, Enthusiasm, and Gnosticism. The Prosperity Gospel, Dispensationalism, and a whole host of various Theologies of Glory."

Dispensationalism is just a different view than you have. It's not a heresy.

I strongly disagree. Dispensationalism is not just a matter of disagreement. If it were just a matter of the false doctrine of "the rapture" that'd be one thing, but "the rapture" is the least problematic aspect of Dispensationalism. It's what Dispensationalism says about Abraham, Israel, the Law, the Church, the Gospel, the work and mission of Jesus Christ, and the Church's identity and purpose in the world that makes Dispensationalism not just a different view, but heretical.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BPPLEE]

There is a difference between wanting one's nation of residence to be a just society and belief that one's nation is innately special over and against other nations.



I strongly disagree. Dispensationalism is not just a matter of disagreement. If it were just a matter of the false doctrine of "the rapture" that'd be one thing, but "the rapture" is the least problematic aspect of Dispensationalism. It's what Dispensationalism says about Abraham, Israel, the Law, the Church, the Gospel, the work and mission of Jesus Christ, and the Church's identity and purpose in the world that makes Dispensationalism not just a different view, but heretical.

-CryptoLutheran

So do you believe that the Church has replaced Israel?

 

[ViaCrucis]

So do you believe that the Church has replaced Israel?

Of course the Church hasn't "replaced Israel", because the Church is Israel. This is basic Christian teaching.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[rjs330]

well that's just categorically false

It's categorically true.

 

[rjs330]

Before his death Theologian Hans Kung worked to develop a global ethic.
It is interesting that all the cultures of the world have an ethic that is a variation of the Golden Rule--to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
And this is where the Religious Right has gone politically astray--managing to offend all the faiths in the world. Is the Golden Rule part of their legislation?
A Baptist missionary wrote in a mission magazine that in India their church should not waste money on hospitals or healing but on schools--because conversion is their objective instead of compassion. (I had a part time pianist job at a Baptist Church at one time and got their magazines.) I was horrified. I hope it is not typical. I found the congregants at the church I played at to be personally charitable but unlikely to follow through in their voting.

.

I think you hit the nail on the head with your last statement. Conservative Christians are very generous people. More generous than liberals. They are generous with their own money, which is what the Bible teaches. This is why they are against the liberal Democrat ideas of being generous with OTHER people's money. That's not a Christian value. The church's I've attended have been filled with giving people who always helped those in need. Who've given to the community. They never demanded the other people give nor required that other people give. They just gave out of their own pockets.

We also see the WASTE of government programs that cost 80% of the government budget that STILL doesn't work to help the poor get out of poverty. Why on earth anyone would support that is beyond me.

 

[rjs330]

My father was an athiest and almost always voted Republican. But that was back when the Republican party was conservative rather than radical right Christian. In some ways it is better that he died before the Republican party became what it is today.

These days it is NOT that athiests are Democrats, it is that they are anything except Republican. In close races that often translates to voting for the Democrat, at least after the primaries.

Well that's not what the research says.

 

[rjs330]

Most of your positions aren't based on science or liberal principles or anything like that.

It's mostly just peer group conformity.

Yea and at times forced peer group conformity. Cause if you don't conform your out. Huge peer pressure on that account. Take a look at what they've done to some people. We have authors harassed to no end, we have singers bullied into apologizing, sports heros blasted for daring to not conform.

 

[rjs330]

No way am I blaming the church (you say 'the church' so I presume you are Catholic). The problems that your country has (and in my not so humble opinion, it has a lot), is down to the fact that the country is divided. And I mean seriously divided. Religion isn't the cause but it certainly doesn't help. Because religion is likewise divided. And into so many denominations that it's possible to list.

A division that was started by the democrats.

 

[BPPLEE]

There is a difference between wanting one's nation of residence to be a just society and belief that one's nation is innately special over and against other nations.

America isn't special. America isn't a nation born of Providence. America isn't a godly nation, and it never has been. America is just another temporal kingdom in a world filled with lots of kingdoms. There is nothing better about being an American than being anything else. America is not the greatest nation, it is not the most free. Having the greatest military and having most of the world's wealth doesn't make is good, or special, or spiritually significant in any way.

I want America to be better, I would love if it could be exceptional in a good way. But at present America is only exceptional in arrogance, spiritual delusion, in worshiping the false gods of Capitalism and Violence, and refusing to ignore her history of injustice--a history that goes back to its founding. And refusing to acknowledge these things is not Christian and godly, it is only prideful and wicked.



I strongly disagree. Dispensationalism is not just a matter of disagreement. If it were just a matter of the false doctrine of "the rapture" that'd be one thing, but "the rapture" is the least problematic aspect of Dispensationalism. It's what Dispensationalism says about Abraham, Israel, the Law, the Church, the Gospel, the work and mission of Jesus Christ, and the Church's identity and purpose in the world that makes Dispensationalism not just a different view, but heretical.

-CryptoLutheran

"I want America to be better, I would love if it could be exceptional in a good way. But at present America is only exceptional in arrogance, spiritual delusion, in worshiping the false gods of Capitalism and Violence,"
What do you want to replace Capitalism with?

 

[rjs330]

The only people who think about ‘woke’ are the right. It is one of their rallying cries.

That's baloney. The left is the group that pushed wokism on everyone including businesses and schools. It's pretty hard to ignore when you are hit in the face with something. It used to be "don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain". Well the man came out and proclaimed he was the wizard and stood I everyone's face.

Your kind of thought process is like, "here let me punch you in the face, and if you respond then you are responding to something that didn't really happen."

 

[stevil]

When rephrasing someone's position, I tend to include the things they haven't considered. This is often the weakness of their position.

But gimme whatever example you have in mind....let's see if I can correctly state your position. That way you can tell if I'm listening or not.

I'm actually enjoying, or interested in seeing a side of you that is talking about something other than "problems" faced by white people. So I don't want to bring the topic back to that.

Death duties?

Maybe in USA you call it estate taxes???

 

[rjs330]

On paper I suspect I more closely align with the values from the Democratic party compared to the Republican one. This is probably true for the majority of atheists. On a personal level, I never developed a serious animosity towards Republican/conservatives. Ironically, I did develop a serious hatred for many of my fellow Democrats/progressives.

A big reason is probably my Republican father. He's one of the most kind and loving people I have ever known. While I disagree with most of his political views, I never gotten the sense that he holds views because of hatred. My father is probably not the typical Republican though, he never got along with a lot of his fellow conservative Christian peers at Church. Especially now, he has a deep dislike for Donald Trump. Economically he's probably more center/left.

Still, I sometimes wonder why I feel this way. Growing up I was more bullied by progressive types than conservative ones. I get along pretty well with many Republican/conservative types on here. Many have told me privately that they were amazed that an atheist like me was so chill with them. Sometimes I wonder if I should be more balanced, but it's just the way my mind feels.

If I grew up in a Republican/conservative household that was less loving, I might feel very differently.

Your dad I think represents the majority of people on the right. There are a bunch of Trump loyalists who felt it was time to hit back. And when I say hit I mean verbally stroke at your opponents hard. Cause we've been verbally assaulted for some time now and got tired of it.

Then there's the group that voted for Trump cause they liked his policy statements and thought he might just try and accomplish what he said. He was plain spoken we thought he might just do it.

Others voted for him because they couldn't stand Clinton.

The mvast majority of folks in the right really didn't like Trump's behavior. Like your dad. But we really liked his policies and what he was doing. His actions spoke louder than his words. And I think that was the fundamental difference between your dad and others. Your dad couldn't stand the man and thus that was most important to him. Others may not have liked the many but he was getting things done. And they supported that.

Who was right? I don't really know. I know that if Trump runs again I hope he is soundly defeated in the primaries. We have much better people who could run and still get things done without the Trump baggage.

 

[rjs330]

Of course
https://media.spokesman.com/documents/2018/10/Biblical_Basis_for_War.pdf

I didn't see anything in there about a call for war. He was simply talking about a Biblical basis for going to war and what the Scripture says about war.

War theory as Ana stated. It appears you are fear mongering.

 

[rjs330]

But, as just one example, Christian Nationalism is heresy, and so those who teach and promote it are heretics and preaching a false Gospel and another Jesus, and therefore are anathema

This has been proven to be a made up thing. There is no real move to Christian nationalism. You have tiny tiny tiny group of individuals who support a theocracy. Christian nationalism is not a thing and it's been proven to not be a thing.

It's nothing but fear mongering.

 

[Fantine]

Yea and at times forced peer group conformity. Cause if you don't conform your out. Huge peer pressure on that account. Take a look at what they've done to some people. We have authors harassed to no end, we have singers bullied into apologizing, sports heros blasted for daring to not conform.

Let's look at federal.heaothcare programs--Medicare. VA. No insurance companies taking 20% off the top. Cheaper. And better. I love Medicare. My husband gets great care from the VA.
Social Security. No amount of private charity could accomplish what SSA has for the elderly, disabled, surviving children.
Food pantries around us get lots of surplus from the government.
I saw an evangelical church give shoes to schoolchildren, in return for getting their feet washed.
To me, that was for the givers not the receivers. Don't poor children feel different enough without having to listen to a sermon and get your feet washed by some do-gooder?
As St. Francis says, preach the gospel at all times--use words "when necessary." Not to make poor children feel even needier.

 

[BPPLEE]

Let's look at federal.heaothcare programs--Medicare. VA. No insurance companies taking 20% off the top. Cheaper. And better. I love Medicare. My husband gets great care from the VA.
Social Security. No amount of private charity could accomplish what SSA has for the elderly, disabled, surviving children.
Food pantries around us get lots of surplus from the government.
I saw an evangelical church give shoes to schoolchildren, in return for getting their feet washed.
To me, that was for the givers not the receivers. Don't poor children feel different enough without having to listen to a sermon and get your feet washed by some do-gooder?
As St. Francis says, preach the gospel at all times--use words "when necessary." Not to make poor children feel even needier.

In that case when I pay my taxes I can feel like I've already given to the poor.

 

[rjs330]

The theologian of glory beholds the woman caught in adultery and takes up rocks to uphold the moral order.

The theologian of the cross beholds the words of the Crucified who said, "Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more."

Yet if you do that you are blasted by the left who will tell you you are a bigot for telling someone not to sin. Or even calling what she did sin. How dare you even say what she was doing as sinful.

You see the cast majority of believers do believe in not punishing the sinner. We were all that at one time. But saying something is a sin is not wrong as Jesus proves in that story. And also at the story of the woman at the well.

think that's a fairly broad summary. In the context of America it also includes belief in American Exceptionalism and Christian Triumphalism.

Other examples of rampant heresy include Dominionism, Enthusiasm, and Gnosticism. The Prosperity Gospel, Dispensationalism, and a whole host of various Theologies of Glory. Not to mention examples of straight up idolatry in the worship of Mammon/Capitalism and Jungoism.

I believe in American Exceptionalism.
And Christ will triumph in the end and we will be part of that.

And I do agree that there is heresy in the world today, Dominionism, gnosticism, the prosperity gospel. I don't think dispensationalism is heresy. It's simply a way to show different times during the history of Scripture including the end times. The end time particularly are up for debate concerning when Christ will come for his church. And there are solid reasons for all of them. I happen to believe that Christs will take his people home after the revelation of the Anti-Christ. This is not heretical doctrine.

And no one worships capitalism though some will worship money as seen in the prosperity doctrine.

Do you believe that those in the church who think homosexuality is okay and that priests can be ordained as practicing homosexuals is worshipping hosexuality?

How about those who believe in socialism. Are they worshipping socialism?

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

I didn't see anything in there about a call for war. He was simply talking about a Biblical basis for going to war and what the Scripture says about war.

War theory as Ana stated. It appears you are fear mongering.

Liz Cheney gets kicked out of the party for being against Trump scheming to overturn election results. This guy gets to stay in though his “Biblical” basis for war is to execute all the males if they don’t submit to his theocratic demands (10-c). I can’t support any political party that is okay with that. That’s going to get my own throat slit.

Grow a spine and kick that yeah to the curb or I will rightfully treat you as a threat to my life.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm actually enjoying, or interested in seeing a side of you that is talking about something other than "problems" faced by white people. So I don't want to bring the topic back to that.

Is there perhaps another example you can think of? All I'm going to do is summarize your position.

Maybe in USA you call it estate taxes???

Ok...

Wanna hear something funny? When I talk about racial issues or crt...people complain about me always talking about race or whatever.

Then when I discuss trans issues...I'm accused of talking about that too often as well.

And this accusation tends to pop up, once in awhile, no matter what I'm talking about. I rarely ever see it leveled at anyone else.

It just looks like people feel it's easier to defend their positions against someone who isn't me....and certainly try to do so.

But when it's me....they'd much rather attack easier targets.

 

[stevil]

Wanna hear something funny? When I talk about racial issues or crt...people complain about me always talking about race or whatever.

Then when I discuss trans issues...I'm accused of talking about that too often as well.

And this accusation tends to pop up, once in awhile, no matter what I'm talking about. I rarely ever see it leveled at anyone else.

It just looks like people feel it's easier to defend their positions against someone who isn't me....and certainly try to do so.

But when it's me....they'd much rather attack easier targets.

When I was talking to you prior, I looked at your profile and looked at all the threads you had created I went back quite a distance and they all seemed to be about "whites" being oppressed.