What is wrong with Calvinism ?

[Clare73]

"The result of one trespass was condemnation for all men." (Romans 5:18)

Very disingenuous post.

And the word of God became "disingenuous" when?

 

[Clare73]

I thought he was pretending to be above you by way of worthiness of being heard, just for the sake of humor.

I think the "rash on your forehead" was from "mopping the floor clean" with you.

I thought it was an off-the-wall, absolutely irrelevant and completely inane remark, yet sounding like a weighty indictment, and couldn't stop laughing at how off-the-wall-irrelevant, inane and creative it was, and ready to declare him a comedic genius, when I realized it was not. . .very disappointing. . .it still makes me laugh when I think of it that way.

Turns out it is my misunderstanding that is the comedic genius in the house.

 

[zoidar]

I don't understand. You are saying, if I read you right, that repentance is possible for one whose heart is still enslaved to sin, i.e. before regeneration, and that Romans 8:4 does not of itself deny that, no? That still does not allow one to claim it is possible, if other passages deny it.

Maybe I'm missing something. Haha I've been juggling many posts on several threads, on many interrupted visits to CF.

Yes, you got me right. A heart enslaved to sin can be convicted, which leads to repentance, which leads to regeneration by the Holy Spirit/salvation.

What other passages would you say deny it? If you have a long list, just give me a few of the passages that you feel most clearly deny it.

Maybe I should ask Clare for the list.

 

[Clare73]

Do you think Adam's imputed guilt and inherited fallen nature mean we are sinners at conception? Yes or no please.

Yes. . .

I don't know what you mean by "sinners." Do you mean "fallen nature?"
For our fallen nature is the reason we sin.
Are you saying we are not sinners until we actually do sin?

Is a skunk a skunk because he sprays, or does he spray because he is a skunk?

Are we sinners because we sin, or do we sin because we are sinners?

The answer is the same for both.

Adam's imputed guilt simply means we are guilty of condemnation.

His inherited fallen nature makes us sinners from birth, just like baby skunks and rattlesnakes are skunks and rattlesnakes from birth, it is their nature.

Likewise, sinner is our nature.

 

[Clare73]

The post is to Clare.

Sure would like to see your answer to him. . .or you can give it to me instead.

 

[Clare73]

How long after sperm meets egg does the union of cells become a person? There is reason to believe, in fact, that the sin nature inherited from Adam is built into the DNA, or otherwise in some physical way inherited, and that it is passed down through the male, not the female. (No, I'm not saying it is so. It is not a doctrine I teach.)

Feelings concerning the matter are irrelevant. We don't know enough to even know how to feel about it, frankly.

DNA is the only way to inherit.

Everything we do gets in our DNA.

 

[zoidar]

Yes. . .

I don't know what you mean by "sinners." Do you mean "fallen nature?"
For our fallen nature is the reason we sin.
Are you saying we are not sinners until we actually do sin?

Is a skunk a skunk because he sprays, or does he spray because he is a skunk?

Are we sinners because we sin, or do we sin because we are sinners?

The answer is the same for both.

Adam's imputed guilt simply means we are guilty of condemnation.

His inherited fallen nature makes us sinners from birth, just like baby skunks and rattlesnakes are skunks and rattlesnakes from birth, it is their nature.

Likewise, sinner is our natural nature.

One of your best posts in this thread from my view. Even it can be discussed if you are right.

Would be interesting to hear if you guys are for infant baptism.

 

[Clare73]

I don't understand. You are saying, if I read you right, that repentance is possible for one whose heart is still enslaved to sin, i.e. before regeneration, and that Romans 8:4 does not of itself deny that, no? That still does not allow one to claim it is possible, if other passages deny it.

Maybe I'm missing something.

You didn't miss anything. . .he thinks regeneration follows repentance.

Haha I've been juggling many posts on several threads, on many interrupted visits to CF.

Try not to meet yourself coming back. . .

 

[Mark Quayle]

The new birth is about more than just the washing away of sin. It has a broader application than regeneration.

The new birth IS regeneration. This conversation has taken on a surreal quality.

 

[Mark Quayle]

The post is to Clare.

True. I'm not the police, but that was a bit rude, to put right out there in public.

 

[misput]

And the word of God became "disingenuous" when?

Not the word of God. It's the way you hack my post to avoid my question.

 

[Clare73]

One of your best posts in this thread from my view. Even it can be discussed if you are right.

Would be interesting to hear if you guys are for infant baptism.

As a sign (as was circumcision, its counterpart, Colossians 2:11-12) of being in the new covenant people of God, enjoying God's provision for them, it seems Biblical.
But as a sign, it guarantees nothing eternal.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Maybe I should ask Clare for the list.

Ha yes! But there must be some reason you said that. Such as maybe you've already seen she has one?

 

[zoidar]

Ha yes! But there must be some reason you said that. Such as maybe you've already seen she has one?

I might have, but where among 2174 posts???

 

[Mark Quayle]

The post is to Clare.

True. I'm not the police, but that was a bit rude, to put right out there in public.

DNA is the only way to inherit.

Everything we do gets in our DNA.

It's the only way to physically inherit, yes. The question remains, does a spiritual fault, the sin nature, transmit physically? Is "the flesh" more than just a figure of speech?

 

[Clare73]

Not the word of God. It's the way you hack my post to avoid my question.

No question avoided. . .

I addressed your assertion--that neither imputed guilt nor fallen nature, which you equate, means we are born condemned--with Scripture to the contrary.

Couldn't be any more thorough, simple and clear.

 

[Clare73]

I might have, but where among 2174 posts???

Are we having fun yet?

 

[Clare73]

True. I'm not the police, but that was a bit rude, to put right out there in public.

It's the only way to physically inherit, yes. The question remains, does a spiritual fault, the sin nature, transmit physically? Is "the flesh" more than just a figure of speech?

It resides in the disposition, which is of the natural order, no?

My dog's disposition is not a spiritual thing.

 

[zoidar]

Are we having fun yet?

I don't know. At least I hope we all learn something.

 

[Greg Cheney]

His claims? Which claims would you be referring to there?

His call to repentance; his call to all men everywhere; his words that convey the ability to choose all throughout the scriptures. (The words you claim mean something different than what they say.) By the way, its interesting that Calvinism needs its own dictionary. Anytime they don't want a word or passage to mean what it actually says - oh, its an anthropomorphism.