Why are threads on Christian universalism so popular?

[Hmm]

How the word of God sits with a person is the root of the problem. Truth isn’t subjective to interpretation it remains a constant despite interpretation.

Truth is objective, as you say, but we are finite beings and that means that we can only understand things in part.

For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known.
I Corinthians 13:12

That applies to you as well as to everyone else. Everyone has to interpret everything including their own direct experiences of God, let alone a piece of text. It's not what you want, but there you go.

 

[Hmm]

No one seems to be interested in the original question.

No, the thread's been hijacked and I don't think it's possible to keep it on topic, but thanks for your answer. Good answer.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Alternatively, why has Christian universalism never gone away?

The question's not discussed in churches and if it's mentioned at all it's usually only to denounce it as a heresy. And yet the belief in universal reconciliation (UR) has been a consistent strand throughout church history. Today, in terms of books sold and YouTube videos watched - the only type of metrics possible as there are hardly any universalist churches around to allow a meaningful count of posteriors on pews - the interest in UR is increasing while mainstream church attendance is declining, certainly in the UK anyway. It seems to me that CF also shows this trend in that threads on UR have considerably more comments and, more significantly, views than those on any other subject.

Could it possibly be that the reason belief in universal reconciliation has never gone away is because it's the truth that scripture points to?

And let's remember who we are and keep it civil folks (assuming anyone replies!).

Which question do you want answered?

 

[Hmm]

Which question do you want answered?

Hmm.. the question in the title. The one that the previous poster has just addressed.

 

[RickReads]

Well then, if you're in irregular guy, you're welcome to try ...

And as some of the T-shirts say, "Go ahead and underestimate me. That'll be fun!"

I`m not concerned. I got friends if I need help.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

If UR is true, there is no need for the gospel, no need for salvation, no need to preach and teach and no need to tell people to repent. UR is a nice, comfortable idea that makes people feel warm and fuzzy. But it deceives people into thinking that God will let them off the hook for their wicked behaviour.

UR ignores the fundamental problem of fallen man. He is dead. The gospel is not just going to heaven when we die. It's new life in Christ. Those who refuse God's mercy in grace in this life have no opportunity in the next. In fact, they are subject to the second death.

The reason why there are no universalist churches is simple. Why bother? If everyone goes to heaven anyway(as I've said already), the Church becomes irrelevant.

UR is a symptom of the decline of Christianity. It was prophesied long ago - 2 Timothy 4:3 & 4

For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.… such as UR (italics mine).

Oh my friend you do not yet understand UR , when you read the Bible with the glasses of UR ,you become have a greater pressing to share the gospel it has in my life. When we see how great God is and how powerful he is it makes our love for him greater and when we understand that God really does love all those who are made in his image, I for one do not write them off as those who are going to hell and if God will do that why should I not write them off also, but now I understand that the lake of fire is a refinery and all those who do not follow God while in the mortal body have to go there. And as we can plainly see from scripture it’s going to be awful, and for some maybe a really long time, so I myself feel and greater urgency to tell all you can be part of the family of God and not have to go there. So no those who understand UR do not think everyone gets off easy , all who reject Jesus while in the mortal body do go into the lake of fire and it is not good. Most people who follow UR understand that God is a good God and when he created this world he loved it and knew what satan was going to do and He already had a plan to save the whole world (Jesus crucified from the foundation of the earth) and at the end of this age God will be all in all. 1 Cor 15
So we do see the need for repentance, sharing the gospel and the gospel itself is extremely important, why do you think it’s called good news , it’s only good news if it applies to all not a small fraction. How is it good news for those who were not chosen or who have not heard, or people who are so deceived by sin that they can’t see there need to follow Jesus. You should try to read scripture with the UR glasses instead of either Calvinist,Arminian, Catholic, glasses and you will see what a glorious gospel it is God is so loving and so powerful He can pull off the greatest love story ever written. Now we can say Jesus is the savior of the world the whole world not just a small fraction either by being elected or by there own choosing. It has made my love for God grow even deeper and greater than I ever thought possible,and isn’t that what the gospel is supposed to do?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hmm.. the question in the title. The one that the previous poster has just addressed.

Why are threads on Universalism so popular?

I don't know. Are we just supposed to go by what we think we see here on CF? I mean, there's the fact that it's only a handful of folks who are actually creating threads here on CF upon which others may join in.

I'd have to research into how pervasive Christian Universalism is among the entire Web. Otherwise, implying that CU is uber popular is a "just so" statement. This doesn't indicate it's level of truth or falsity since popularity doesn't necessarily indicate that some bit of reality is shining through. As in the case of Luther, the spread and popularity of an idea might be contingent upon its means (and locale) of proliferation.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I`m not concerned. I got friends if I need help.

I'm glad to hear you have friends with theological prowess ... that's wonderful!

Now, use the synergy you have from those friends of yours to address the OP.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

I answered that. It's a sign of the last days deceptions that are flooding what calls itself church. Those deceptions began in Paul's time. Much of what he wrote was to counteract the various heresies that were floating around.

For example, legalism is just as much a problem in this day as it was in Paul's. There has been much debate about the place of the Law in Christianity. That also goes back to Paul's time, hence the letter to the Galatians.

Popularity has never been a criteria for truth. The gospel is offensive and unpopular to most people. Popularity is greatly overrated.

Yes it is a sign of the last days, God himself said he will pour out his spirit in the last days and that is exactly why the Christian Universal Redemption is becoming so popular. People are starting to wake up to the truth of the gospel (the good news for all ) It has been around from the beginning, most of the early church believers followed it they called it Apokatastasis. This was true for the first 300 years of the church. So yes it is being rekindled now as time is short . Because any of the other systems give more glory to satan than God, how can God have the glory if he loses most of his creation to satan and then he has to create hell and sustain it forever and he only gets a small fraction of what he paid for. I don’t understand how you can call that a win for God. But with UR God wins God 100% satan 0% (some even say satan himself will be conquered and finally bend his knee to Jesus) so yes you are correct it is a sigh of the last days

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Scary! Probably one reason I reject Universalism.

Why is it so hard to believe that a all loving all powerful God could not possibly win over someone as hitler? Or even satan himself someday I don’t find that hard to do with a God of the impossible, kind of like what Jesus said with man it is impossible but with God all things are possible. (sorry I threw in that nasty word ALL)

 

[Hmm]

Why are threads on Universalism so popular?

Yes.

Are we just supposed to go by what we think we see here on CF? Are we just supposed to go by what we think we see here on CF? I mean, there's the fact that it's only a handful of folks who are actually creating threads here on CF upon which others may join in. I'd have to research into how pervasive Christian Universalism is among the entire Web. Otherwise, implying that CU is uber popular is a "just so" statement.

I specified CF in the OP - you can't get everything in the title after all - but if you want to look more widely and post in what you find that would be good.

The issue of whether the threads on CF are created by a handful of people or even if just by one person is not really relevant to their popularity in terms of view and post counts.

This doesn't indicate it's level of truth or falsity since popularity doesn't necessarily indicate that some bit of reality is shining through.

I agree it doesn't necessarily indicate truth but, to me, the presence of the belief throughout all of church history strongly suggests that it is true. I can't see how else it would have persisted for so long, especially since it was (arguably) declared heretical after the first 500 or at least stopped being part of the mainstream teaching. What kept the idea alive?

 

[RickReads]

I'm glad to hear you have friends with theological prowess ... that's wonderful!

Now, use the synergy you have from those friends of yours to address the OP.

Been there done that. Lotta threads on the topic.

The reality is that the number of people who believe in Universal salvation is quite small and the doctrine is only taught by a few minor(very) denominations.

God has left Himself the room to do what He wants in the judgment so Universal salvation is not impossible. However, the Bible is clear in telling us that there are things that God hates. It`s equally clear that there was a problem with the angels that led to severe penalties. It`s naive to believe that God is going to give eternal life across the board.

 

[Hmm]

(sorry I threw in that nasty word ALL)

Do try to control yourself lol

 

[Jipsah]

That doesn't really make sense. Maybe my problem with you is expecting it too.

Too many long words, perhaps?

 

[Jipsah]

The reality is that the number of people who believe in Universal salvation is quite small and the doctrine is only taught by a few minor(very) denominations.

Vox populi, vox Dei, right?

God has left Himself the room to do what He wants

That's certainly good to know.

However, the Bible is clear in telling us that there are things that God hates. It`s equally clear that there was a problem with the angels that led to severe penalties. It`s naive to believe that God is going to give eternal life across the board.

The idea of ECT assumes just that, that everyone lives eternally, some in bliss,most in torment.

 

[misput]

I might have that conversation if you want to start a thread on the trees of Eden. In part, it's just some fun speculation if you like that kind of thing.

It would be a short conversation, you either know or you don't Not like this thread, which grinds on and on with no one knowing for sure.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Not everyone who says to Me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven only those who do the will of My Father may enter.

He who blasphemes the Spirit will never be forgiven.

but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.

How the word of God sits with a person is the root of the problem. Truth isn’t subjective to interpretation it remains a constant despite interpretation. People can’t change the truth by ignoring verses no matter how appealing it might seem to them.

It’s not a matter of ignoring verses it’s more of a matter of our understanding those verses and often time we get the wrong understanding because we either read only the English words and never look into the original for what the people who it was written to would have understood it to be . For example the verse that says do good to your enemy and pray for him will be like dumping hot coals over there head . I always took that as a way of getting back at them who wants hot coals dumped on them that would be really bad, but I didn’t know that back then fire was a precious they didn’t have bick lighter so if you fire went out the woman would take a jar and put it on there head and walk to someone and ask for a coal to restart the fire and people were stingy with the coals , so by saying you would dump coals on some ones head it was a blessing not a revenge thing like I read it. So those in UR camp don’t ignore verses we just see them in a different light, like the word translated eternal we accept the translation of that being of the age or eon a more literal translation. That’s not ignoring its having what we would say is a better interpretation in view of the whole of scripture. You see I would say that those who don’t interpret it that way are ignoring all the scripture that says Jesus is the savior of the world/it’s God will that none parish/ as in Adam all die in Christ all will live ect. So really it’s not a matter of ignoring it’s a matter of focus and interpretation.

 

[RickReads]

It would be a short conversation, you either know or you don't Not like this thread, which grinds on and on with no one knowing for sure.

I think it would be a fairly lengthy discussion. At least talking about what I believe it all means would be.
Maybe you think something different than I do. A delicious apple?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Been there done that. Lotta threads on the topic.

The reality is that the number of people who believe in Universal salvation is quite small and the doctrine is only taught by a few minor(very) denominations.

God has left Himself the room to do what He wants in the judgment so Universal salvation is not impossible. However, the Bible is clear in telling us that there are things that God hates. It`s equally clear that there was a problem with the angels that led to severe penalties. It`s naive to believe that God is going to give eternal life across the board.

And you're tell 'me' this, why? Shouldn't it go to @Hmm?

I'm not a Universalist. I thought you knew that ...

 

[RickReads]

And you're tell 'me' this, why? Shouldn't it go to @Hmm?

I'm not a Universalist. I thought you knew that ...

I like talking to you better.