Why are threads on Christian universalism so popular?

[misput]

@2PhiloVoid

Do you know Who the Wisdom, The Understanding, and the Tree Of Life is?

Jesus of course. Do you know what the tree of knowledge of good and evil is?

 

[RickReads]

Jesus of course. Do you know what the tree of knowledge of good and evil is?

Opinions vary on that, the bigger question is what the trees of Eden are.

 

[Hmm]

I'd love UR to be true but I'm not convinced from scripture. Satan and his demons going to hell - yes; any human being - I struggle with the idea, let alone my deceased nearest and dearest who may not have been saved.

It's an awful dilemma to be in. What helped me was reading about "kolasis anonios" and realising that the most popular English translations of the Bible simply got everything about eternal punishment wrong, however incredible that sounds. Why don't the Bibles correct this? Just look at the attachment to ECT we see here. They wouldn't want the plummet in sales.

 

[misput]

Opinions vary on that, the bigger question is what the trees of Eden are.

Give me your best shot please.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

@2PhiloVoid

Do you know Who the Wisdom, The Understanding, and the Tree Of Life is?

What does my faith designation under my avatar say? Might it give you at least one hermeneutical hint as to whether or not I'm ABLE to answer this question you've so very serendipitously imposed?

 

[BNR32FAN]

But isn't this why we have so many denominations today? Because everyone thinks they have "the supreme advantage point on Scripture, and the rest are wrong"?

You can’t have “the supreme advantage point” on scripture if your interpretation doesn’t line up with all scripture. I think the biggest reason we have so many denominations is because people want to believe what they want to believe and ignore the verses that refute their beliefs. I see it everyday here on CF.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You can’t have “the supreme advantage point” on scripture if your interpretation doesn’t line up with all scripture. I think the biggest reason we have so many denominations is because people want to believe what they want to believe and ignore the verses that refute their beliefs. I see it everyday here on CF.

Well, that may be, but I don't think the Litmus Test is whether all the Scriptures "line up" with one another. That kind of recognitin takes some special revelation and insight that most of us haven't automatically been given, even as Christians.

No, I'm going to have to say that there are so many denominations because: 1) God didn't impart do us a book that was meant to be either exhaustive or comprehensive, and 2) it was written by different people who, although they knew the Lord, wrote from their own particular perspectives and experiences. Thus, we shouldn't be surprised that some of the ideas in the Bible, even in the New Testament, don't perfectly jive with one another.

And this is why we can have books written today like John Goldingay's, Theological Diversity and the Authority of the Old Testament. I bet I could find one like this that applies to the New Testament as well.

 

[RickReads]

What does my faith designation under my avatar say? Might it give you at least one hermeneutical hint as to whether or not I'm ABLE to answer this question you've so very serendipitously imposed?

I just thought it might lead to an interesting conversation. Is bashing somebody for asking a simple question part of the slack?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Refutation is in the eye of the beholder, innit? Apparently a fair number of people don't think universalism has been refuted at all. And maybe the idea of eternal conscious torment doesn't sort well with "for God so loved the world", and "Father, forgive them..." for a lot of folks. If those are the only two options, UR sounds a whole more like Jesus than ECT does, wouldn't you say?

Not everyone who says to Me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven only those who do the will of My Father may enter.

He who blasphemes the Spirit will never be forgiven.

but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.

How the word of God sits with a person is the root of the problem. Truth isn’t subjective to interpretation it remains a constant despite interpretation. People can’t change the truth by ignoring verses no matter how appealing it might seem to them.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Universalism certainly contradicts some verses found in the most common, though by no means all, English Bible translations, most notoriously those verses that refer to "eternal punishment".

But if that translation is wrong then it doesn't contradict anything.

The question is, does "kolasis anonios" in the original Greek mean "eternal punishment" or does it mean "pruning/correction lasting for a (time-limited) age"? The answer is very revealing and very easy to look up. What's difficult is finding the motivation to do so.

No I was referring to The verses I posted in post 69

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I just thought it might lead to an interesting conversation. Is bashing somebody for asking a simple question part of the slack?

This is a thread on Universalism, so shoot me if I'm wrong, but I was kind of thinking that it's out of place to hit me up here.

If you really want to chat, create a new thread on a topic you want to chat about. I'm not bashing you, bro!

I'm just telling you like I see it.

 

[RickReads]

Give me your best shot please.

I might have that conversation if you want to start a thread on the trees of Eden. In part, it's just some fun speculation if you like that kind of thing.

 

[RickReads]

This is a thread on Universalism, so shoot me if I'm wrong, but I was kind of thinking that it's out of place to hit me up here.

If you really want to chat, create a new thread on a topic you want to chat about. I'm not bashing you, bro!

I'm just telling you like I see it.

I would but I`m starting to think that you`re too educated for me just as you informed me in the earlier post when you were cutting me slack and giving me your grace.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I would but I`m starting to think that you`re too educated for me just as you informed me in the earlier post when you were cutting me slack and giving me your grace.

Everyone here says that. But the reality of it is, I'm just a regular guy like you...who simply has a lot of philosophy and theology books.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No, I'm going to have to say that there are so many denominations because: 1) God didn't impart do us a book that was meatn to be either exhaustive nor comprehensive, and 2) it was written by different people who, although they knew the Lord, wrote from their own particular perspectives and experiences.

The New Testament is the teaching of Christ and His apostles, those teachings are not subjective. Saying that the scriptures are not comprehensive doesn’t really fit on the subject of universalism because there are verses that universalism directly contradict. See post 69.

 

[RickReads]

Everyone here says that. But the reality of it is, I'm just a regular guy like you...who simply has a lot of philosophy and theology books.

I`ve only seen you say it. I`m pretty skeptical of your claim that everybody else here says it.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The New Testament is the teaching of Christ and His apostles, those teachings are not subjective. Saying that the scriptures are not comprehensive doesn’t really fit on the subject of universalism because there are verses that universalism directly contradict. See post 69.

Well, that's one way of looking at the 'nature of the New Testament,' but it isn't the only one. But regardless of this fact, and being that it's a side issue, I agree with you that whether or not Universalism is true is a Hermeneutical and Historical question. It's just that the hermenuetical structure of the issue may not be the rather stiff one that you expect it to be.

Of course, this goes for ANY theological position specific to this or that denomination, not just for Universalism. Reality just bites like that...

 

[RickReads]

Everyone here says that. But the reality of it is, I'm just a regular guy like you...who simply has a lot of philosophy and theology books.

And what makes you think I`m just a regular guy? I think you need some help pulling your feet out of your mouth.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

And what makes you think I`m just a regular guy? I think you need some help pulling your feet out of your mouth.

Well then, if you're in irregular guy, you're welcome to try ...

And as some of the T-shirts say, "Go ahead and underestimate me. That'll be fun!"

 

[hedrick]

No one seems to be interested in the original question. Threads on universalism are popular because it’s one of a couple of these most serious challenges to the credibility of Christianity. The more traditional one is the problem of why God allows suffering. However God causing eternal torment is pretty clearly a more serious moral issue than him allowing suffering during our comparatively short time on earth.

Universalism isn’t the only possible answer, but if you find defenses of ECT not persuasive, it’s the most traditional of the alternative views.